who supports right to choose

[pattygreen 5]

Then you have no free will...you don't make the choices that you come across...which means that God planned what happened to me and knew that I would have an abortion...it was part of his plan

If it makes you feel better to think that, then....

[rodriguezequal 3]

I am just going by what you said...I DO NOT need anything to make me "feel better" I have NEVER felt bad about my decision!!! EVER

[KartMan 58]

In defense of my husband and the other soldiers he fought with...there are many many rules for our soldiers over there...they are not shotting before being threatened or attacked in some way...in fact if they get shot at the have about 5-10 minutes to find the shooter if he runs...if they cannot find him in their time frame they cannot shot him...

Rodriguez,

I spent 6 years in uniform and would never disparage the troops in general, for the most part they are just following orders. I think there are and were some bad apples, there always are in war. My beef is with the administration that put them there and the command structure that allowed the atrocities in Abu Ghraib, the killing and raping of the young girl and her family, and the like.

[BJean 16]

Rodriguez I have a lot of respect for the military and I care a great deal about them and their families. I know that their job is often very dirty and sometimes thankless. We could not be the country that we are without our men and women in uniform.

That is why I find it criminal that the Bush administration sent us into the war in Iraq. Many countries believe that he should be tried for war crimes. It has been said that some countries have made it clear that George W. Bush is not welcome in their country and that they will arrest him for war crimes if he sets foot in their country.

Then there is the fact that his administration made all kinds of fluffy noise about how much they loved the military, but when it came to providing more benefits for them upon their return from war, they were against it.

I certainly do not blame the military personnel for these things. I blame the politicians. I do have hope that the current administration sees things differently and will work to increase the pay and benefits for our military men and women.

Edited June 11, 2009 by BJean

[BJean 16]

patty, regarding her thoughts on how people get to heaven: "... I said that every person makes their own choice about if they want to go to heaven or not."

Didn't you explain to us that the only way for that to happen is for us to become "born again" Christians? And that becoming "born again" is a direct command from God if we want to go to heaven?

Why do I keep getting the feeling that you're talking in riddles?

My apologies to the other gentle readers. This has become a seriously nauseating line of debate. But just when I think I understand what patty has declared to be the gospel, she does a retreat of sorts and says it is really different than what I've quoted her as saying.

We probably all post too quickly in the heat of battle. I'm sure I'm as guilty as anyone else. After this long day at the keyboard, I am exhausted. I will try to be back at it early in the morning. I'm sure that patty will be waiting for me, guns cocked and loaded. Yee-haw.

[rodriguezequal 3]

I hear you there...sometimes it's like the troll under the bridge that wont let us pass! lol

[BJean 16]

kartman: thank you very much for your 6 years of service!

[BJean 16]

rodriguez you can be pretty dang funny, you know that?

[rodriguezequal 3]

kartman: thank you very much for your 6 years of service!

Yes....

[rodriguezequal 3]

rodriguez you can be pretty dang funny, you know that?

Who...what...*big ole me? nah :w00t:

[KartMan 58]

kartman: thank you very much for your 6 years of service!

Thanks. It was a great time. I learned so much about myself and people in general. I went in at 18 and it really shaped the rest of my life.

Here is a story that is a bit of a tangent for this topic, but I think relative to the thinkers on this thread. I was on a pretty small ship, less than 300 men (combat ships were not coed at the time). We had 2 guys on there that were as about as openly gay as you could be without actually coming out. One of them was a crew favorite, the other not so much. They were liked and disliked by the crew for many different reasons, but none of those reasons had to do with their sexual preference. I don’t know how many of you have been on a Navy ship, but there is not a lot of privacy. I can honestly say that I don’t think their sexual preference affected crew moral at all. This was almost 20 years ago and it didn’t affect crew moral then and I can’t for the life of me see why people that have never even served in the military think that openly gay people can’t serve in the armed forces today. I was and am totally straight and I think if either of them was kicked out for their sexual preference it would have been a huge disservice to our country.

[Lydiafree 0]

I spent 6 years in uniform

That is impressive. I always feel somewhat silly "thanking" soldiers for their service - its not mine to "thank" for. But, I do find it admirable and impressive.

[Lydiafree 0]

ThI can honestly say that I don’t think their sexual preference affected crew moral at all. This was almost 20 years ago and it didn’t affect crew moral then and I can’t for the life of me see why people that have never even served in the military think that openly gay people can’t serve in the armed forces today. I was and am totally straight and I think if either of them was kicked out for their sexual preference it would have been a huge disservice to our country.

There's never a logical reason for bigotry. Bigots only ever use the same three excuses for their ignorance and bigotry: "it's not natural" (the entire animal kingdom feels differently); "god hates "fags"" (which is just another way to say that the speaker hates them, but isn't brave enough to own it); and "I don't want to have to worry about the guy behind me" (which is a homophobic compiling of the other two)

[pattygreen 5]

I am just going by what you said...I DO NOT need anything to make me "feel better" I have NEVER felt bad about my decision!!! EVER

What I meant was -if it makes you feel better to think that you don't have a free will, and God controls you like a puppet or a robot, then go ahead.Think that way. You will not have to blame yourself for any actions that you ever take in life. That lie you told, that thing you stole, that bad thought you had, etc. God made you do it. He controls your will, not you.

[pattygreen 5]

I grew up around some pretty unsavory folks. Some of them went on to commit murder. I happen to know that they were not deterred from their crimes by the threat of Capital Punishment. They don’t even believe they will be caught, let alone put to death, so it’s not a deterrent at all. Besides, it is just flat out wrong for society to kill its citizens. Rehabilitate them, or lock them in a cell for life, but don’t perpetuate the injustice by taking their life in vengeance. If for no other reason, our courts get it wrong far too often. It seems that almost every week they are finding some poor sap on death row that was completely innocent. If we put to death even one person by mistake, then that is one too many.

It's funny how some people think that to lock a man into a cage and subject him to physical and sexual abuse on a daily basis by other men is a humane thing to do to criminals who commit murder, yet simply injecting them and ridding them from society is far more cruel. Back in the olden days, there was very little crime because if you were caught stealing, you were publicly hung for all to view. Even the children. Believe me, they grew up and didn't even want to go there. They stayed away from crime because they knew what was in store for them. Today, the death penalty takes a criminal 20 or more years with the appeals process before it ever is applied. Criminals know this. We have no more room for these murderewrs. We also have DNA today to 'prove' who did what. Which makes the argument for capital punishment even better.