who supports right to choose

[Daffodil 0]

The difference, Daffodil, is that society is virtually unanimous in its conclusion that rape, murder, car jacking, child abuse, etc, are horrible crimes that require vociferous condemnation. Abortion is not like that. Society is divided. Indeed, your view is in the minority. This makes a difference.

As I understand it, your goal in this situation is to convince people that you are right. If that is your goal, you are simply not going to accomplish that goal by calling them murderers, and by refusing to acknowledge that thoughtful, intelligent, compassionate people do, in fact disagree with you.

It's not about political correctness. It's about results. You should feel free to vociferously condemn abortion all you want. I don't think anyone is telling you that you should not. But if you want results, if you want fewer abortions, you are not going to accomplish that result with a style that basically tells everyone who disagrees with you that they are evil, insane, blood-soaked murdering baby killers. That is such an extreme position that it is going to have a tendency, if anything, to push people to the other side.

I understand your position and respect you for it. I don't feel any need to call you a monster (even though I believe that the pro-life movement wants to cause changes in this country that would be unspeakably horrible for the women of America). Why is it that you are unable to respect people who disagree with you? I fully understand the passion you feel in your position, but I don't understand at all why you are unable to see that very compassionate and thoughtful people of good will truly do see things differently. I think it is a mistake for you to refuse to acknowledge that people who disagree with you deserve respect. No one is asking you to change your mind, but you should at least be willing to acknowlede that the majority of the population of the United States, who disagree with you, are not bloodthirsty monster baby killers.

Yes, you are.

[marjon9 6]

Yes, you are.

Then all I have to say to you is, please keep up the good work. The more people with your mindset continue to spew your bile, the less likely it is that the people of America will ever accept your way of thinking. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Keep it comin'!!

[BJean 16]

I never cease to be amazed at how the "pro-life" people refer to women who have had abortions as having made that choice out of convenience. Someone earlier even inferred that women who have abortions are doing it because they want to further their careers. What planet are you living on, people? Why do you insist on spouting your "facts" that women use abortion as birth control and only out of convenience and to further their careers? You are wrong if you think that most women make the decision to have an abortion just out of convenience. Please don't post some silly stats that prove nothing. There can be no stats that give an accurate assessment of the psycological and physical reasons why all women seek abortions. You can probably give stats on the sample you may have, but there is no questionnaire or controlled scientific study participation requirement that is used in most cases of women seeking abortion.

I said it before and I will say it again - if you are truly interested in preventing abortions, work toward that goal by helping distressed pregnant women. Women have always aborted babies and they will always abort babies. It won't matter if you manage to get a law passed that makes abortion illegal. Women will get abortions if their situation makes having a child impossible for them.

Your harsh approach makes me wonder if you secretly (or maybe even openly) would like to think that a woman who would abort a baby could die in an alley from a botched abortion. You obviously have no respect for that woman and you think she is "stained" and not worthy of your compassion in any way.

At one point it was posted that women who get abortions are not making decisions about their own reproductive organs... I mean, huh??? Sometimes I think you just want to fight. You love the mean-spirited fight that this topic inspires. You seem to revel in it. The more you can point fingers and scream murder, and fan the flames, the happier you seem to be. I just do not understand the logic and it flies in the face of your statement about caring about human life. If you do care about human life, it is an extremely narrow range of caring that you seem to have.

Whether you want to continue this thread and rant and rave on, I say fine. But just know that women who desparately need abortions will get them. No law can change that. We can be civil about it and do all we can to assist women who are faced with an unwanted pregnancy. Or we can fight them, belittle them, tell them they are murderers, tell them they are killing a living, breathing human being (which of course, they aren't.) None of it will change the fact that a woman who is faced with having a child, when she is unable to do so, may choose to have an abortion, laws or no laws.

[396power 2]

I am continually amazed by your view of moral relativity. It's like you believe NOTHING is inherently wrong and everyone should be allowed to do whatever makes them feel good at any given time and whatever you want to do is peachy-keen and don't dare anybody tell you that it is wrong... Your words:"would require women to do something you totally do not believe in, to us that is no different than your efforts to require women to do something that we just as strongly do not believe in right now, today". So because an act, be it abortion, or rape, or thievery, or child abuse, is what YOU want to do then it's all right? Or conversely, if there is a crime you don't believe should be criminal, say extortion, then anyone making you abide by an anti-extortion law is forcing you to behave in manner you don't like? Life isn't all about you and your whims and desires minute-to-minute! Pro-life people believe abortion is the taking of a human life. Just as you hopefully would condemn taking the life of a 3 day old newborn, we condemn taking the life of a gestating human-to-be. Yes, I want to criminalize the taking of human life, regardless of it's stage of development. It's tough to sugar-coat those words for the sake of not "hurting anybody's feelings".

Why are you quoting me I see things the way you do?

[anonemouse 1]

You know, I can't get over 396power trying to teach me about biological theory. Seriously, I'm rolling over here! :clap2:

[396power 2]

Great come back!

[anonemouse 1]

Great come back!

Seriously, though! You? It really is laughable, considering the quality of the rest of your posts. I can say with utmost confidence that I know more about biology than you. Now, if you were someone with an actual degree in the sciences or even someone who could put up a good pretense of knowing what they were talking about, it would be different. As it is, it's like someone who doesn't know how a fuel-injection engine works telling a mechanic how to do his job.

Think about it. What do you do for a living? What would your reaction be if someone who obviously knew zip about what you do started telling you that you didn't know what you were doing? At first, you would probably be offended. After you cooled down, though, you would probably get quite a kick out of it.

[anonemouse 1]

And before anyone overreacts, I'm not trying to be mean here. It just really gets my goat when people profess to disbelieve a scientific theory/law, but show a basic misunderstanding of what science actually is. To be quite honest, I don't respect those opinions. Now if, on the other hand, someone is well-educated about what they are disagreeing with and still disagree with it, I respect that. Take Gadgetlady, for instance. I completely respect her stance on evolution. I don't agree with it, but I do respect it. She has done her homework. I don't agree with the conclusions she's come to, but I respect the fact that she bothered to find out exactly what she is disagreeing with. She knows the many of the scientific arguments, and she understands them. I respect that. To me, that's a discussion worth having. To me, when the opponent has absolutely no idea what they are actually disagreeing with (i.e., they've never done the research for themselves, as evidenced by their basic misunderstanding of science), it's not worth even discussing the issue.

[susannah 2]

Hey 396, How is your poll working for you? Susannah

[BJean 16]

Frankly I'm pleased to see that you Laurend, and maybe even you Susannah, agree with my assessment of the situation to which you refer.

[niecyrenee 2]

OK, let's say you hear someone passionately advocating murder, rape, child abuse...would you not strongly and vociferously condemn that person? Or would you be "polite and respectful " towards them? When a judge metes out a sentence to a convicted killer or rapist or terrorist, does he not call the person, or at least the deed "evil"? C'mon, folks. Let's not be politically correct to the point of ridiculousness. YOU feel strongly about murder, rape, car jacking, child abuse...I feel that abortion is most assuredly murder ! Why should I act so polite and respectful about it? It's because you have convinced yourself that abortion is just a choice...like buying a Buick instead of a Jeep, having blonde hair instead of brown...that you speak the words abortion and respectful together amazes me. Who respects the human rights of the child-to-be?

You ask why you should be polite and respectful about it because NO ONE will ever listen to you if you bash them continually for their beliefs. People don't take too kindly to that. When you spend your time condemning people for what they believe without listening to why they believe the way they do and kindly point out why you disagree; you are closing those lines of communication and you will never reach them. NEVER! Why is that so hard to understand? You have talked about your desire to uphold the sanctity of human life but then how do you treat that human life, you "strongly and vociferously condemn that person". How would you respond if someone treated you the same way? Think about that.

I have made no bones about saying I am pro-life. I feel very strongly about that and would love to change people's opinions who feel differently but I will never do that if I approach them with hostility. I mean, you have got to be kidding me if you think you can change people's opinions with your approach! While I feel that life begins at conception and that it is not our place to stop it, I am intelligent enough to understand that a lot of people view things differently than me. There are several things that I feel are wrong (immoral) that others don't but I would never treat them so horrible that they would shut me out. I don't have to agree with their choices or even pretend that it is acceptable but I feel that you should do it in a loving way. What kind of ministry would Christ of had if he would have approached things with hatred? NONE!

I don't know you so I don't know the things you struggle with but I do know that we all have them. None of us are perfect. Let's say you struggle with adultery and while someone is trying to change your opinions to show you why it is wrong, they use hostility. Would you even give them the time of day? I strongly doubt it! The same applies here.

All I am suggesting is that you step back and examine your approach here and ask yourself if you are really doing any good for the unborn lives? By totally turning people off with your attitude, you will not change their opinions and therefore will not do anything for the pro-life movement. Isn't your ultimate goal to change people's opinions and stop abortion? Then take the necessary steps to do that and stop condemning people.

[marjon9 6]

You ask why you should be polite and respectful about it because NO ONE will ever listen to you if you bash them continually for their beliefs. People don't take too kindly to that. When you spend your time condemning people for what they believe without listening to why they believe the way they do and kindly point out why you disagree; you are closing those lines of communication and you will never reach them. NEVER! Why is that so hard to understand? You have talked about your desire to uphold the sanctity of human life but then how do you treat that human life, you "strongly and vociferously condemn that person". How would you respond if someone treated you the same way? Think about that.

I have made no bones about saying I am pro-life. I feel very strongly about that and would love to change people's opinions who feel differently but I will never do that if I approach them with hostility. I mean, you have got to be kidding me if you think you can change people's opinions with your approach! While I feel that life begins at conception and that it is not our place to stop it, I am intelligent enough to understand that a lot of people view things differently than me. There are several things that I feel are wrong (immoral) that others don't but I would never treat them so horrible that they would shut me out. I don't have to agree with their choices or even pretend that it is acceptable but I feel that you should do it in a loving way. What kind of ministry would Christ of had if he would have approached things with hatred? NONE!

I don't know you so I don't know the things you struggle with but I do know that we all have them. None of us are perfect. Let's say you struggle with adultery and while someone is trying to change your opinions to show you why it is wrong, they use hostility. Would you even give them the time of day? I strongly doubt it! The same applies here.

All I am suggesting is that you step back and examine your approach here and ask yourself if you are really doing any good for the unborn lives? By totally turning people off with your attitude, you will not change their opinions and therefore will not do anything for the pro-life movement. Isn't your ultimate goal to change people's opinions and stop abortion? Then take the necessary steps to do that and stop condemning people.

Of course you are exactly right, niecyrenee, but can't you keep it quiet? Daffodil and a few others on this forum are the most effective weapons we have in the pro-choice arsenal. Their words are obviously going to do nothing but push people away from a pro-life perspective. And we'd like to keep it that way. So, please, sssshhhhh.....

[niecyrenee 2]

Of course you are exactly right, niecyrenee, but can't you keep it quiet? Daffodil and a few others on this forum are the most effective weapons we have in the pro-choice arsenal. Their words are obviously going to do nothing but push people away from a pro-life perspective. And we'd like to keep it that way. So, please, sssshhhhh.....

I know I shouldn't but that tickled me and I can't resist.....

[green 6]

You ask why you should be polite and respectful about it because NO ONE will ever listen to you if you bash them continually for their beliefs. People don't take too kindly to that. When you spend your time condemning people for what they believe without listening to why they believe the way they do and kindly point out why you disagree; you are closing those lines of communication and you will never reach them. NEVER! Why is that so hard to understand? You have talked about your desire to uphold the sanctity of human life but then how do you treat that human life, you "strongly and vociferously condemn that person". How would you respond if someone treated you the same way? Think about that.

I have made no bones about saying I am pro-life. I feel very strongly about that and would love to change people's opinions who feel differently but I will never do that if I approach them with hostility. I mean, you have got to be kidding me if you think you can change people's opinions with your approach! While I feel that life begins at conception and that it is not our place to stop it, I am intelligent enough to understand that a lot of people view things differently than me. There are several things that I feel are wrong (immoral) that others don't but I would never treat them so horrible that they would shut me out. I don't have to agree with their choices or even pretend that it is acceptable but I feel that you should do it in a loving way. What kind of ministry would Christ of had if he would have approached things with hatred? NONE!

I don't know you so I don't know the things you struggle with but I do know that we all have them. None of us are perfect. Let's say you struggle with adultery and while someone is trying to change your opinions to show you why it is wrong, they use hostility. Would you even give them the time of day? I strongly doubt it! The same applies here.

All I am suggesting is that you step back and examine your approach here and ask yourself if you are really doing any good for the unborn lives? By totally turning people off with your attitude, you will not change their opinions and therefore will not do anything for the pro-life movement. Isn't your ultimate goal to change people's opinions and stop abortion? Then take the necessary steps to do that and stop condemning people.

Like Marjon, I have taken the trouble to quote the above post in full for this has been my own view of a few of those individuals who post for the pro-life side. They do come across as judgemental, arrogant, hysterical and mean-spirited individuals. I earlier made a post on this thread to that effect. And yes, the effect is entirely alienating. One closes one's ears to this sort of shrill hectoring. The above quoted words are from someone who is both firm in her beliefs and yet has a generous spirit. Thanks, niecyrenee.

[niecyrenee 2]

The above quoted words are from someone who is both firm in her beliefs and yet has a generous spirit. Thanks, niecyrenee.

You are very welcome! I just can't imagine treating someone differently then how I expect to be treated. It's preposterous!