who supports right to choose

[BJean 16]

Thanks, green. Good to hear from you! Your very insightful opinions have been sorely missed here.

I used the term wing-nut because sometimes I think people have a screw loose.

I am sorry if I offended anyone by its' usage. However, I have been offended clearly as much as anyone here has and sometimes I feel driven to go on the offensive more than may be necessary.

Frankly I did not want Carrie to feel overwhelmed and under appreciated.

[Carrie_C 9]

Carrie- don't let the wing nuts get you down. They may innundate you with their propaganda and profession of right-ness, but they are wrong and most Americans know that. Thank the good Lord.

Thanks, I'm not letting them get me down, lol. I just find it amusing that gadget thinks everything she reads and posts is the truth and everything anyone else reads and posts is big made up lies.

[gadgetlady 4]

Thanks, I'm not letting them get me down, lol. I just find it amusing that gadget thinks everything she reads and posts is the truth and everything anyone else reads and posts is big made up lies.

I understand that some people may disagree with the interpretation that many people, including me, have about the 14th Amendment. But I can't imagine what you're referring to that are "big made up lies." I can tell you it's a fact that Norma McCorvey says she was not gang-raped but that the sex with her boyfriend was consensual (if you care to read her testimony to a Senate Subcommittee, here it is: norma2.98.html). I can tell you it's a fact that Doe v. Bolton guaranteed abortion on demand through 9 months of pregnancy for any reason. I don't know what else you might be referring to.

I am not a casual observer to this debate. My graduate school thesis was on the political and legal aspects of Roe and Doe and how Griswold affected the two. I don't willfully post inaccurate information here or anywhere, and I attempt to back everything I say up with references and facts. When someone does post inaccurate or questionable information, I ask for documentation (and rarely get it).

The Supreme Court doesn't always get things right. Sometimes they are wrong on right-wing issues, and sometimes they are wrong on left-wing issues. That's not a question; it's a fact. I believe anyone would be hard-pressed to tell me that Dred Scott was properly decided.

[pattygreen 5]

Don't let them get to you. They can't dispute what you say, so they have to resort to attacking your sources.

[Carrie_C 9]

What I meant was, you think your interpretation of the constitution is right, and everyone else's interpretation of the constitution is wrong.

[gadgetlady 4]

What I meant was, you think your interpretation of the constitution is right, and everyone else's interpretation of the constitution is wrong.

And everyone on the opposite side of the fence thinks their interpretation of the Constitution is right and mine (and everyone on my side of the fence) is wrong. BTW, as I pointed out, Alan Dershowitz is a long-standing liberal abortion advocate and thinks Roe was poorly decided. So it's not just "me".

[BJean 16]

I'm glad that some people who disagree with me just bypass my posts and do not read them. Otherwise, we might get into some kind of healthy debate. Or is healthy debate completely out of the question on such a passionate subject

I must add that just because some people have decided that the Supreme Court has incorrectly interpreted the Constitution, doesn't mean that they are correct in their judgement of the Surpeme Court.

The most important thing about the Surpeme Court is that they are appointed and confirmed by the president and congress. We elect both the president and congress and we expect them to be non-partisan when it comes to interpreting the Constitution. However, people are people, with all the human frailties that brings.

[Carrie_C 9]

I think a healthy debate is out of the question on this matter, especially when people are so closed minded and think that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

[BJean 16]

You're probably right. This campaign has gone on so long and it seems like just about every possible avenue has been explored.

But I tend to believe what one of the candidates said about the possibility of something horrendous being pulled out of the hat at the last minute.

It is in character for the party that has become the underdog to stop at nothing. I will probably never forgive the men who brought us the John Kerry Swift Boat campaign that ran ads and wrote letters filled with lies. A man who was a true patriot, a man who served our country in battle, a man who chose to be open and straightforward during his campaign about his desire to make big changes, was the man who was charged with being the liar. He did not deserve that kind of nasty, dishonest, smear tactic. No one does. And Americans should not put up with it. We need to go to the polls and let our votes be our voices.

I guess that's why we keep trying to point out the reasons why we are for or against someone. We want to ensure that others understand the information that we think have been lies and a misinterpretation of the facts before, as in John Kerry's case, it is too late.

[Carrie_C 9]

Yes, I agree that we all need to go to and vote.

[gadgetlady 4]

You guys crack me up. You think by not saying my name but saying "some people" that you're not attacking the person but the idea?

If you don't think I've participated in healthy debate, why don't you go back and review the many pages of this thread? I've asked questions, answered questions, and responded to every challenge posed. Yes, I think I'm right. But so do you.

[gadgetlady 4]

Here's a link to something I just posted (in a different thread) that relates to the issue of abortion; more than that, though, it's a victory story for the relationships established on LBT: http://www.lapbandtalk.com/f7/lbt-changes-lives-non-weight-related-lbt-story-79207/#post1039816

[pattygreen 5]

When our forefathers came to this country, they were willing to give their lives for what they believed, and they did. They felt that their 'truths' were self evident(no one needed to explain it to anyone).

"We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, they are endowed by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

The beliefs that this country was founded on have been thrown out the window as time has gone on. Why does that need to be explained to you when it was self evident back then? LIFE is precious, every life, even the unborn child's life. They have that 'RIGHT' to life.

[BJean 16]

The rights that you're talking about include your right to believe what you believe and for me to believe what I believe. Your rights should not trump mine on this issue.

It is your belief that once a sperm has penetrated an egg, that it is a process that should come with legally written insurance that it will always be permitted to develop into a fully viable human being.

I do not believe that or agree with you. I believe that it is a very, very complicated biological process and that nature intervenes and that human beings intervene to prevent development of that tissue into a fully viable human being and that the reasons that those interventions occur are not cut and dried or black and white. There are millions of reasons why those interventions occur. Some may not be good reasons. Some may be live-saving reasons. Some may be a matter of a very delicate balance of biology and genetics.

The problem with your cut and dried, black and white, approach to this question of women's rights, is that you believe you have a right to control those biological functions in all women based upon your beliefs. That's where your beliefs and mine conflict and why your beliefs abridge mine if you prevent me from having my own beliefs and ability to have my beliefs be as legal as yours are.

You keep throwing out the fact that you believe that a fertilized egg is a life and that every life has the right to exist. I believe that a fertilized egg is comprised of living tissue, but it is not totally within God's will or within the government's promise that each and every fertilized egg is guaranteed the same rights as a fully developed person. It just doesn't work that way and just because you believe it is that way, doesn't mean that everyone else believes it or should live by your beliefs above all others.

[BJean 16]

I forgot to tell you that I have missed you, TommyO!