who supports right to choose

[Carrie_C 9]

If you got pregnant and your husband doesn't want the child would you expect him to pay for the child? If it was your boyfriend? How can a person expect it to be all their body, their decison but only half their reponsibility?

The physical aspect of having a child aside, men do have alot to do with it and they should. They should take responsibility for the child. I don't know what society you are living in but where I live it is not acceptable for men to abandon their children - ever. Unacceptable before or after they are born. I think we all know what those men are called.

Men may not know what it's like to actually have a baby but I am sure there are plenty of men who know what it's like having a crazy nut job coming after him because she didn't use any birth control.

People should just be careful. I can no longer believe that a child is a choice. Pregnancy is a choice. Sometimes its not planned and sometimes it is. But either way it should be a blessing and not a curse.

I agree with you. If a man doesn't want the child and has nothing to do with it, and doesn't pay support, how is that different than a woman not wanting it and having an abortion? You are right, women can't expect it to be all their decision, but only have half the responsibility. I never really thought about it that way. I also know what you mean about a crazy nut job coming after men. My husband has a 16 year old son and he has paid child support and health care (voluntarily) since he was born, even though the child doesn't want to have anything to do with him. The child's mother doesn't want my husband to have anything to do with him either, but she sure wants her support check every week.

[cobrien78 0]

If you got pregnant and your husband doesn't want the child would you expect him to pay for the child? If it was your boyfriend? How can a person expect it to be all their body, their decison but only half their reponsibility?

The physical aspect of having a child aside, men do have alot to do with it and they should. They should take responsibility for the child. I don't know what society you are living in but where I live it is not acceptable for men to abandon their children - ever. Unacceptable before or after they are born. I think we all know what those men are called.

Men may not know what it's like to actually have a baby but I am sure there are plenty of men who know what it's like having a crazy nut job coming after him because she didn't use any birth control.

People should just be careful. I can no longer believe that a child is a choice. Pregnancy is a choice. Sometimes its not planned and sometimes it is. But either way it should be a blessing and not a curse.

"Because she didn't use birth control" Are you kidding me? So it's not the man's responsibility anymore to use birth control, it's the woman's? And I'm sure it's her fault then she got pregnant so then let's force her to have a baby she probably end up abusing anyway!

Having children is a choice! If a couple or a woman doesn't want to have kids what's so wrong with that?

If it wasn't as acceptable for men to abandon their children as women then how come so many in our country do so with no backlash from society?! It's become the norm as sad as it is!

A man could go through his life without having any children and it's perfectly fine, if a woman goes through life without having children there are so many questions and assumptions. Like, why didn't she have kids, could she not physically have kids? Then to find out she CHOSE not to have kids she is looked at as a bitch or heartless!

I personally don't feel abortion should be used as a method of birth control however, I don't think the government has any right to impose penalties on a women's choice to do what she wants with her body.

[gadgetlady 4]

And I'm sure it's her fault then she got pregnant so then let's force her to have a baby she probably end up abusing anyway!

Studies firmly show there is no correlation between unplanned pregnancies and child abuse. In fact, the opposite is true: most abused children were planned.

Having children is a choice! If a couple or a woman doesn't want to have kids what's so wrong with that?

You are absolutely right. The problem is, once a woman is pregnant, she has a kid. Her only choice at that point is a live baby or a dead baby. I'm ALL FOR prevention of unplanned pregnancies. What I'm against is making the decision once a baby is already created.

[mtnman428 1]

I completely agree with Cobrien! Harlito, no offense, but in our society it is not as hard as you think it is for the man to just walk away, and many men do. Then there is not much recourse for the woman, especially if the man has nothing in his name...you can't get blood from a stone. Certain men do not care about a tarnished reputation. I am definitely not saying that all men are like this, just arguing the point of how easy it actually is for a man to walk away from. :cursing:

[Carrie_C 9]

"If a woman goes through life without having children there are so many questions and assumptions. Like, why didn't she have kids, could she not physically have kids? Then to find out she CHOSE not to have kids she is looked at as a bitch or heartless!"

I TOTALLY agree with you. That is what I was trying to say earlier. I don't have any kids and don't even think I want them. I have had no desire to be a mother. People think there is something majorly wrong with me in the head, especially my family. I get tired of defending my right not to have any.

[BJean 16]

Well Carrie if you don't want children I guess that means that you can't have sex. At least that's how the anti-choice people would have you behave. There are no birth control methods that are 100% - except for abstinence. So there you go. If you don't want kids and you don't believe in abortion, you better never allow yourself to have sex. That means that you must avoid getting raped too.

As for Butch - good for you, man. You are absolutely spot on with regard to how women are perceived and treated in this country. Having the government control women by telling them they have no choice is in alignment with our view of women as pieces of meat.< /p>

There is no law saying that you have to have an abortion if your birth control fails - there should be no law saying that you cannot have an abortion if your birth control fails. Some people would like for us all to believe that every fertilized egg should and can mature into a baby. I disagree that every fertilized should and can mature into a baby.

As I have said probably a thousand times before in this thread, this is not something that should be legislated. It is something that each and every person must decide for themselves. I do not believe that it is anyone else's job to save every fertlized egg. People should not have that kind of control over other people. Babies should not be viewed as a comodity.

Respect women and this question can take it's proper position in our lives - as a matter between a woman, her God and her doctor. To have it any other way is just plain wrong. It would be equally wrong for certain individuals or the government to intervene in a woman's life by telling her that she could not have a baby unless they said it was acceptible. Why can't you all understand that?

I thank God for men like Butch and Senator Obama. They obviously understand this issue much better than many Americans. That is why the anti-choice people have stretched what Senator Obama has said and done to make him out to be a villian on this question. The man is truthful and he has the capacity to understand the entire issue. I certainly do not find any fault in Senator Obama for that.

Unlike John McCain who actually has said that he is pro-choice in the past but in order to get the Republican right-wing vote, he claims that he will be a "pro-life" President. That is the only way that fundamentalist Christians (and others who are anti-choice) will vote for him. And it is a basic part of the Republican platform now that the right wingers have taken over the Republican party.

They should stop crucifying Senator Obama and start being up-front about what they really have planned for this country. Fat chance... they could never get elected if they did that.

[gadgetlady 4]

Well Carrie if you don't want children I guess that means that you can't have sex. At least that's how the anti-choice people would have you behave.

:cursing: Yup, we're anti-sex (that's sarcasm for those of you who don't know me).

I disagree that every fertilized should and can mature into a baby.

Do you also disagree that every infant should and can mature into a toddler? Or that every tween should and can mature into a teenager? These are all stages in the continuum of life. An unborn baby doesn't magically turn into a human being as he or she travels through the birth canal, as those in favor of abortion would have us believe.

Babies should not be viewed as a comodity.

Neither should they be viewed as trash, simply because that particular baby's mother chooses to define her baby as a "product of conception" instead of a human being.

That is why the anti-choice people have stretched what Senator Obama has said and done to make him out to be a villian on this question. The man is truthful and he has the capacity to understand the entire issue. I certainly do not find any fault in Senator Obama for that.

Here's where Obama REALLY stands on babies and why he's rightly being attacked (this is cut and pasted from another thread where I posted it). Obama's campaign, after trying to dodge this issue for weeks, has finally conceded that the facts below are 100% accurate:

While an Illinois state senator (2001 to 2003), Obama addressed (by his vote, speech, and actions) the issue of whether children who were born alive during induced abortions had the right to medical care (the "Induced Infant Liability Act"). In 2001, he voted against medical care in committee, and he voted "present" during the actual vote. In 2002, he voted against medical care in committee and in the actual vote. In 2003 he was the chair of the committee and kept the bill from going to a vote. He was the only senator in Illinois who spoke out on the floor of the senate against the bill -- remember, this is a bill which says if a baby is born alive during an induced abortion, he or she is entitled to medical care. In other words, to oppose it means the person supports directly killing or simply doing nothing and allowing a helpless infant who is already born -- separated from his or her mother's body, and who might be saved through medical care -- to die.

There was a similar federal bill which Barbara Boxer, Ted Kennedy, and 98 other senators in the US Senate voted for, unanimously. Even NARAL did not oppose it!

No hyperbole here AT ALL. These are just straight facts. Obama opposed, thrice, medical care for infants born alive after botched abortions.

[Lowbmier 0]

Why are we discussing this issue on a weight loss web site. Isn't this a political conversion that should be had on a political website?:confused2: I don't think we need to focus on this issue, which is very deep in its own right let alone dealing with our weight issues. I think we all have thoughts good or bad about this and it is a touchy subject. Why are we addressing this here? Just asking.

[cobrien78 0]

UGH! Abortion is a moral/medical issue that should not be governed by the state or federal entities. And for those of you religious people that are pro-life just remember God gave us free will and by making laws against such choices is violating what God gave us!

[BJean 16]

I'm glad I gave you a forum to post what really went on in the senate on this issue at one time. Because I agree with those senators wholeheartedly. You do not understand why they voted that way and I do not expect you to. You approach this issue with blinders on and with extreme bias. I am just as biased against some people taking away women's fundamental rights to govern their own bodily processes and functions.

And since you asked, please understand that I do not believe that every egg that has an initial joining with a sperm is entitled to or even can mature. And that is not always the mother's will - it is God's will as well. And I thank God that some folks who would like to, cannot interject themselves into a woman's body and control her.

Btw, I forgot to congratulate Butch for his awesome weight loss! Way to go! This is not an easy job - shedding our overages of poundage - and anyone who can do it deserves our applause and respect - you got mine!

[gadgetlady 4]

UGH! Abortion is a moral/medical issue that should not be governed by the state or federal entities. And for those of you religious people that are pro-life just remember God gave us free will and by making laws against such choices is violating what God gave us!

Abortion is a human rights issue. Or, as a dear friend of mine just coined, "social justice starts in the womb". IMO, it has NOTHING to do with religion. It has to do with biology and basic, intrinsic human rights.

If you believe God gave us free will and by making laws against choice we are violating what God gave us, then there should be no laws against anything, right? No laws against slavery, no laws against murder, no laws against physical abuse?

The problem is, some choices have victims.

[gadgetlady 4]

I'm glad I gave you a forum to post what really went on in the senate on this issue at one time. Because I agree with those senators wholeheartedly. You do not understand why they voted that way and I do not expect you to. You approach this issue with blinders on and with extreme bias.

How was the way in what I presented how Obama voted biased? What part of what I wrote wasn't 100% factual?

When you say you "agree with those senators wholeheartedly", are you saying you agree with the 100 US Senators who voted to provide medical care for infants born alive after "unsuccessful" (read: "failed to kill the intended target") abortions? Or do you agree wholeheartedly with Obama, who voted that those babies should be actively killed or left to die?

[BJean 16]

I understand and agree with what Senator Obama said about the reasons behind his vote and I disagree with the narrow-minded, intellectually inferior people who felt railroaded into voting the way you think is right.

Do we have to go through this exercise again? You know you're right, I know that I am right and we can talk until the cows come home, we're blue in the face and every other silly scenario and neither of us will understand each other or agree with each other. If the rest of the world fell off the flat edge and it was just you and me left, I'd fight you as hard and firmly as I could on this very issue without budging one iota. I do not agree with you and your characterization of a abortion being the termination of a person's human rights. I know you think that you are fully 100% correct and I know that you do not believe that anyone can dispute or disagree with that characterization, but you are wrong.

And the louder and more grisly you become only makes me dig my heels in deeper.

It's simple... you are wrong and I am right. You can insult me and try to make me out to be something that is nothing short of one who condones taking the life of a person. So be it. That's your perrogative. I came here of my own free will. I know what you're about and that's exactly why I'm here. But I will stop short of making personal accusations about you and your motives. I won't threaten you in any way except to tell you that you are wholly, 100% wrong on this issue. You are brainwashed and you are comfortable with that brainwashing and you make it your job to brainwash others. Believe me, there will always be plenty of people like me around to call you on it.

For everyone else out there, I hope you will all get out the vote for our next President of the United States, Barack Obama - because if you don't, you will learn just how horrible it can be when the right wing fanatics take away every woman's right to make their own medical decisions.

[BJean 16]

And by the way, your statement that Senator Obama voted to actively kill babies or leave them to die is one of the stretches of your propaganda makers that is what I was talking about. Senator Obama does not believe that a woman's rights and the judgement of her doctor should be second guessed by an outsider, a government entity or anyone else. That's what I agree with and that is something you'll never understand.

[BJean 16]

I'm headed off to bed so you can feel free to put my statements in quotes and add your rebuttals beneath them to your heart's content. I won't be playing the game anymore tonight. Ciao.