who supports right to choose

[missy4gordon 0]

Only a size 3 font? I always use little bitty fonts at the office and to me it looked like at least a 50. I use a lot of punctuation marks too. No harm, no foul. I did think you were really mad and I hope I was wrong.

Glad we cleared the air - at least I hope we did.

I was not at all mad. I like to mix it up sometimes with color size and type of font. Back in the American Idol thread I did get a little too crazy with the font size one time, whoa! And I like to play with the smillies!!

:huh2:

[luluc 6]

I was not at all mad. I like to mix it up sometimes with color size and type of font. Back in the American Idol thread I did get a little too crazy with the font size one time, whoa! And I like to play with the smillies!!

:huh2:

i'm staying away from that thread today - because i've not seen the tivo version of it....shuuuuussshh:tongue:

[gadgetlady 4]

Here we go with the what if's again, Einstein was born and that is all that matters.

Abortion is legal, that's it that's all

Hypotheticals are important. Yes, Einstein was born and that can't be changed by our hypotheticals. But currently we're killing one out of every three babies in utero in the US -- how many more Einsteins have we killed? THAT's the important question. The reason I phrased the question to my dh in terms of Einstein is because Einstein is a known quantity. IF there is/was a "modern Einstein", he has/had a roughly 33% chance of never being born.

And if we believe that it's acceptable to kill the unborn simply because they have a handicap we think would make their lives unacceptable, we lose the opportunity to have the blessings of a Helen Keller in our world.

I know some of you out there will say, "Yes, but there are things like miscarriages and failure to implant" -- this is true, but there's a big difference between accidental and/or natural death and intentional death.

Furthermore, "abortion is legal", yes, but if we never attempted to challenge the status quo, we in America would still be British colonies. Are you saying that if/when "abortion is illegal", you will accept it as the law and move on?

[TommyO 5]

There is a big difference between a statement that is real and a statement that is purely hypothetical. If I say what if Einstein was never born vs saying what about abortion for rape victims. Eienstein was born so the first statement is not relevant. There are examples of rape causing pregnancy so there is a high degree of relevance in the later statement. When I am talking about what if statements I am specifically speaking to those scenarios that are purely hypothetical and that is why I say "As my Father would say If my aunt had balls...." You see she doesn't and she wouldn't be my Aunt if she did.

[gadgetlady 4]

still reading the latest "feminist" article thrown out by gadget - must say something i never thought about....

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. I was introduced to the organization in the 1980's and it's had some very well known spokeswomen.

[gadgetlady 4]

There is a big difference between a statement that is real and a statement that is purely hypothetical. If I say what if Einstein was never born vs saying what about abortion for rape victims. Eienstein was born so the first statement is not relevant. There are examples of rape causing pregnancy so there is a high degree of relevance in the later statement. When I am talking about what if statements I am specifically speaking to those scenarios that are purely hypothetical and that is why I say "As my Father would say If my aunt had balls...." You see she doesn't and she wouldn't be my Aunt if she did.

Well, the fact that 1/3 of unborn babies are killed by abortion isn't hypothetical. Knowing whether one of them is an "Einstein" is and will remain unknowable because once you kill someone you never know what their future potential might have been. What is NOT hypothetical is it's pretty likely that we've exterminated some children who would have made major advancements in this world. Have those advancements been made by others instead? That again goes back to the question of whether God/nature/natural selection/random chance/whatever-you-want-to-call-it would have caused another Einstein to be created and make the discoveries that Einstein did had he, the actual Einstein, not been born.

[BJean 16]

luluc I'm not sure if you're thinking I'm a 70 something Floridian or that your mom is. I used to live in Florida but I'm not 70 (or even close to that, of course everything is relative and I'm probably closer to it than you are.) I've lived all over the country although I'm currently doing a stint in Texas.

Believe me it is no fun pissing people off. Ask your mom. I'm sure she doesn't enjoy upsetting people any more than I do.

But maybe your mom remembers what it was like when abortion was against the law. That'll make you pretty passionate.

In theory it sounds like a good idea to outlaw something that has so many negatives attached to it, but when you see what it really does to women, you know that things just aren't black and white in this world no matter how much we wish they were. Whether we like it or not or believe in it or not, sometimes people need that kind of help. I believe that banning abortion does more harm than good. That may piss people off and I know that people disagree, but I believe it is true and that has been what I have observed throughout my long life (although I really am NOT 70!) All of the counter punches and arguments won't change what my experience and observations and friendships and work have taught me on this subject.

I am more than happy to see this thread die, but as long as there are people who insist that a law should be passed that will take away a woman's choice regarding abortion, I'll keep posting and insisting that the decision must be in kept the hands of the people involved, not the government.

[luluc 6]

luluc I'm not sure if you're thinking I'm a 70 something Floridian or that your mom is. I used to live in Florida but I'm not 70 (or even close to that, of course everything is relative and I'm probably closer to it than you are.) I've lived all over the country although I'm currently doing a stint in Texas.

Believe me it is no fun pissing people off. Ask your mom. I'm sure she doesn't enjoy upsetting people any more than I do.

But maybe your mom remembers what it was like when abortion was against the law. That'll make you pretty passionate.

In theory it sounds like a good idea to outlaw something that has so many negatives attached to it, but when you see what it really does to women, you know that things just aren't black and white in this world no matter how much we wish they were. Whether we like it or not or believe in it or not, sometimes people need that kind of help. I believe that banning abortion does more harm than good. That may piss people off and I know that people disagree, but I believe it is true and that has been what I have observed throughout my long life (although I really am NOT 70!) All of the counter punches and arguments won't change what my experience and observations and friendships and work have taught me on this subject.

I am more than happy to see this thread die, but as long as there are people who insist that a law should be passed that will take away a woman's choice regarding abortion, I'll keep posting and insisting that the decision must be in kept the hands of the people involved, not the government.

well CRAP - didn't mean to insinuate your 70, like my mum is....your style of conversation on the subject is identical. an yes, she's not proud to piss people off - which is usually my inlaws (after much lecturing on my part to not do so) she just can't hold her Water when it comes to the right to choose. she makes me look like a wallflower - and i'm the one who had an abortion.

she became pretty passionate when after having her last child; she wanted her tubes tied. the catholic hospital wanted her to get a notorized statement from my dad saying it was OK to do so.....she's be pretty vocal ever since - that was 1973, ironic.

i thought the thread should end last night, and almost replied so - but another dynamic (the feminist article) came to light & added more to the discussion than previous go arounds on the SAME issues.

i must admit some the articles have been tiresome, (sorry gadget....see used your name tho...). as someone who has had an abortion, has tried IV, has tried adoption, - there is something to be said about bringing a face to the discussion and real stories (which many choose not to share for obvious personal choices), rather than stats out the ...well fill in blank.....BOTH are important! just got overwhelming a tad,

[BJean 16]

Ohmigosh yes, it definitely has gotten overwhelming at times. I appreciate the fact that you're willing to post and share your feelings and even the fact that you've been through it. If I remember correctly I think at one point you got bombarded when you talked about it. Which was very, very sad and disturbing.

Tell your mom she has a friend in her corner anytime she needs backup.

[gadgetlady 4]

i must admit some the articles have been tiresome, (sorry gadget....see used your name tho...). as someone who has had an abortion, has tried IV, has tried adoption, - there is something to be said about bringing a face to the discussion and real stories (which many choose not to share for obvious personal choices), rather than stats out the ...well fill in blank.....BOTH are important! just got overwhelming a tad,

LOL! Thank you for using my name directly . I know some of the arguments, stories, articles, etc. may be tiresome, but not everyone has thought about and/or heard all of them. I know you can skip what's boring, but then some things might be of interest -- like the Feminists for Life organization.

I know that there are people who stand firmly on opposite sides of this issue, but I also believe that minds can be changed. There are, for example, numerous former clinic workers and abortionists who are now pro-life. I can't think of anyone who might be more in favor of abortion than a person who performed them, and yet if these people can change their minds, I believe anyone can.

I also know there are people who haven't really thought a lot about the issue, and for those people the "same old" arguments are important because it is only through knowledge that we can form an educated opinion.

I do want to say that I am truly sorry for the trials you've experienced in your life with regard to childbearing. I don't remember if you told us before that you had an abortion when you were younger and then had trouble conceiving (I remember that you had trouble conceiving but I don't remember the abortion part), but I know the journey has been difficult and I'm sorry.

[gadgetlady 4]

TommyO, I just want to say that I very much appreciate your last few posts. I really enjoy being able to discuss things on an intellectual level with you, rather than on a sarcastic, personal attack level.

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

I skimmed over this topic a few pages ago. Someone had mentioned the rights of the fathers and my question is this- why should the sole choice be with the woman? A woman choosing to have the child will forever change the man's life too. It seems like men should have a choice in the matter too. Sure, a woman can say the man doesn't have to be in the child's life- well that's fine, but what about the women who will hound a man into child support for the next 18 years? Why can a woman say she doesn't have the financial resources (or whatever reason) but the man (whose 1/2 the reason for the 'tissue' growth) not have that same right?

I don't buy the "it's her body" argument though- it's his pocketbook.

I've mulled this over in my mind a few times, interested in people's theories.

[luluc 6]

I don't remember if you told us before that you had an abortion when you were younger and then had trouble conceiving (I remember that you had trouble conceiving but I don't remember the abortion part), but I know the journey has been difficult and I'm sorry.

Yes - very young 20; started around 32 to get pregnant. Not possible. Appreciate the sentiments.,

[gadgetlady 4]

I skimmed over this topic a few pages ago. Someone had mentioned the rights of the fathers and my question is this- why should the sole choice be with the woman? A woman choosing to have the child will forever change the man's life too.

A mother choosing to have an abortion can also have a huge impact on the father. See Men And Abortion : Home.

[missy4gordon 0]

As a mom of 2 boys, I hate that if they were in this position, they wouldn't have a choice to have that baby. It would be heartbreaking to watch as your grandchild is killed and there is nothing you can do about it.