who supports right to choose

[BJean 16]

It is really sad that some folks believe that pro-choice people have absolutely no value system and that they will make obscene decisions, given the chance.

That cited garbage on the 'net is an effort to get anti-choice people to believe that very thing.

Many pro-choice people are the most caring and responsible people that walk the face of the earth. There is so much negative propaganda on the 'net and in fact everywhere that it is difficult for anti-choice people to understand that we are your mothers, sisters, brothers, teachers, pastors, grandmothers, dentists, doctors, and on and on. Don't make us out to be something we absolutely are not.

By the same token, we will do our best not to clump you into one greasy ball of gun-totin', ultra right wing nuts. Um-kay?

[Pix 4]

My point is that it is still legal. I don't apologize for my statement. Pro Choice people- as it's been my understanding this entire thread, that a woman has a right to determine what to do with her own body. Had she really followed through with what ended up being a hoax, the legality of it doesn't change. My statement of it being okay means that there would be no consequence for this young lady had it not been a hoax.

If this had not been a hoax- would you believe there should be a consequence to the student?

Ok, if you are going to stand by that, and claim I have no morals, no nothing then have you blown up any abortion clinics lately? What about threatening a pro life doctors life or family??

Ooooh feels wrong doesn't it? To be grouped with the disgusting heretics of the group doesn't it.....

[Jesusislove 26]

I am against taking any life. I believe you can have a choice based on certain circumstances; however, do not use it as a form of birth control. There are some that go out carelessly and get pregnant and then go have about 8 abortions when they could have thought about before hand.

[luluc 6]

I know my value system, I however don't feel the need to thrust it onto others - and a slam to my morals on an Internet Forum has zero impact on me. Now if my Priest or Husband has issues w/those values, I would have to re-examine myself a great deal.

The constant misconception that those who are Pro Choice are in favor of using abortion as a form of birth control - is just plain wrong. Alcohol is legal, people abuse that. Guns are legal, people abuse them too. Many things that are legal get abused - but they are in the minority...but get the press.

Stick to your statement - no one here to tell you otherwise.

Cheers~

[BJean 16]

Trell who exactly do you know that goes out and gets pregnant on a regular basis, uses no birth control and gets serial abortions? If you know someone like that, you should give serious thought to helping her. There's a good chance she doesn't even know what causes pregnancy.

Otherwise I fear that you're citing propaganda that the very biased anti-choice likes to toss about to make people think that most women who get abortions are promiscuous ignorant whores. That is just not the truth. I won't say that it doesn't or has never happened, but most women do not use abortion for their everyday birth control method and that is a very heartless and unfounded insinutation directed at all women who have had to have an abortion.

Most women who find themselves in the position of having to make a choice when they become pregnant against their wishes, are women like you and me. You get to make your choice, I get to make mine. Your situation is probably very different from mine. It can be an extremely complex issue and one that we should not be deciding for each other.

[Jesusislove 26]

BJEAN, I never directed anything toward all women, I said some, you are just stirring up strife. Believe it or not there are some women who do use it as a form of birth control. The statistics we will have to research that; but I have overheard and talked to some women who have said they have had several abortions. I will said it again, Abortion is not to be used as a form of birth control.

Otherwise I fear that you're citing propaganda that the very biased anti-choice likes to toss about to make people think that most women who get abortions are promiscuous ignorant whores.

I never called anyone a name, I would not even began to speak those words toward any woman out of my mouth because every woman no matter what she has done is still a woman to me. I deal with women a lot and I love being a woman.

I also said I believe, you do not have to agree. We can agree to disagree.

Edited April 21, 2008 by LLPlady3

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

Pix and BJean, No one said anything about morals. I would not state or imply that anti-life (if we want to use the wording logic presented by BJean) people don't have them. I simply don't believe that you lack morals. I believe you do. What I was stating and asked was whether or not you think that young woman- if it had not been a hoax- should have a consequence. An answer no one has yet to give to me! If you believe she should have had a consequence (again, assuming it wasn't a hoax) then it seems to me you're only prochoice when it's convenient to you. I wasn't asking about your take on her "art". I don't really care if you find it insightful or disgusting- it's not relevant. My question is about consequences and legality.

We also weren't talking about any other topic besides abortion. My views on gun toting is also irrelevant. My question wasn't about something unrelated- it was about abortion.

I'm Pro Choice too- I believe that women have the right to not put themselves in a position where they get pregnant and can't have the child. They can CHOOSE to have sex and have the possibility to conceive, or they can CHOOSE not to and remain 100% positive they won't have a child. As a WOMAN- I have a choice over my body. And prior to my married life, I wasn't choosing the possibility of pregnancy.

[luluc 6]

I'll answer - No, I don't think she should have legal consequences. Public opionion alone, should shame this woman.

I brought up guns/alcohol as examples of "legal" abuses than can take place, such as in this case. I don't necessarily care for those - but since MANY on the Pro Life movement have brought Slavery / Science / Religion to name a few in the discussion; I'm not taking from the topic to address similarites - so long as I don't take this thread 3 pages to proove my comparison. It is just that.

I find, Ms Flipflops your comment below uncaring for those who may have NOT chosen to have sex - rather sex was forced on them. Also those who DID choose birth control and it failed.

"I'm Pro Choice too- I believe that women have the right to not put themselves in a position where they get pregnant and can't have the child. They can CHOOSE to have sex and have the possibility to conceive, or they can CHOOSE not to and remain 100% positive they won't have a child."

What remains paramount to many that are Pro Choice is that a Woman be allowed to determine her outcome should a Unplanned pregnancy take place. I feel we've given this Woman from Yale enough coverage & she is WELL in the minority.

[Pix 4]

FlipFlops, whether or not she can face ramifications is a moot point in our society. The public outcry from BOTH sides of the abortion debate will be enough to shame her for her behavior. Hoax or not it is despicable, and she needs serious psychiatric help to even think that something like that is art, and the things she has (supposedly) done to her body. She needs to be seen straight away by her GYN to make sure she hasn't harmed herself irrevocably.

How I feel is irrelevant in todays society, she is free to do that to herself as many times as she wants. Do I think it is abhorant and she needs help? Yes and 100 times yes. She needs help.

[gadgetlady 4]

For those of you who are in favor of abortion and also think what this Yale gal did -- if it wasn't a hoax -- is wrong, other than being bad art, can you tell me why?

I can tell you why someone in favor of gun rights doesn't believe it's OK to go on a sniper attack on the freeway: it's a violation of another person's right to live. I can tell you why someone who doesn't believe in abortion believes it's wrong to bomb abortion clinics: it's a violation of another person's right to live. I can tell you why those who believe in the freedom of people to drink don't believe drunk driving is OK: it interferes with another person's right to be safe while they drive.

Can anyone tell me, other than being bad art, why what this woman did (or may have done) is offensive?

[gadgetlady 4]

She needs to be seen straight away by her GYN to make sure she hasn't harmed herself irrevocably.

Wait, are you saying that "safe and legal" abortions might not be safe and might harm someone irrevocably?

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

Pix- I've maintained this whole time that I agree abortion should be an option for those who are victims of rape, incest... I should specify everytime I make a comment, I'm sorry.

I'm talking about other side of the spectrum, those who do have choices.

[luluc 6]

Gadget, for me I feel she makes a mockery of someone who struggles with the choice to abort. She allows herself to be the Poster Child for the Pro Life movement as an example of how the Pro Choice views abortion - treating it like birth control & that's not an accurate depiction.

I think this has nothing to do with art...This woman wanted "noise" & noise she got, I've not heard one person in the Art World come out to defend her - even PP has said she was disgraceful.

[Pix 4]

Wait, are you saying that "safe and legal" abortions might not be safe and might harm someone irrevocably?

Did you read the article about her? She was ingesting herbs and other chemicals to induce this. What she was doing is not only harmful to her but if she ingested the wrong herbs together she could suffer long term affects from those herbs. You have to be careful with herbs and the like. If you do not know what you are doing, or what can and can not be mixed together then you are asking for trouble. I am sure even though she is a seemingly despicable person she values her life.

Typically an abortion is done with in the confines of a medical setting. Should anything go wrong you are in a medical facility that can care for you or expedite you to a larger care facility that can better care for you. Abortions have risks, and those are explained to you long before the procedure happens, in fact they are explained over and over again. One abortion has the possibility of rendering a woman incapable of ever giving birth. Did you know a natural occurring miscarriage has that same chance?

Back to your original question, I said what I said because of the ramifications of those herbs to her body, and if she did induce multiple possible miscarriages she needs to be seen to make sure she is ok. Lets not go into the amount of psychiatric care I think the woman needs... Straight jacket and a padded wall are a start.

[gadgetlady 4]

Typically an abortion is done with in the confines of a medical setting. Should anything go wrong you are in a medical facility that can care for you or expedite you to a larger care facility that can better care for you.

I have a friend who went in for an abortion, was handed a pill, and sent home to take it.

Late-term abortions involve inserting laminaria in the cervix, sending the woman home, and then having her return later once the cervix is dilated.

Abortion clinics are typically less regulated than veterinary clinics. In fact, abortion groups oppose requiring clinics to meet certain health and safety standards because they cost too much money.

So no, I don't think abortions, while legal, are every safe. They're certainly never safe for the baby!