who supports right to choose

[gadgetlady 4]

Many abortions are done early term, and I'm pretty sure, are not as gruesome as that video made it out to look. I watched the video and it did not change my mind to be pro-choice.

It is a live video of a first trimester abortion. How do you think it was skewed? And, BTW, the abortionist who performed the abortion in that video, after watching the video, never did one again. It was certainly compelling to him, hmmmm?

There are laws against when it is too late to abort, so an "alive baby" was already taken into consideration for the time limit within the law.

OK, back to basics here. The companion case to 1973's Roe v. Wade, Doe v. Bolton, guaranteed the "right" to abortion through the entire nine months of pregnancy for any reason whatsoever. To do so, it indicated that the state could not interfere with abortion if the woman's health, in the opinion of one physician, was at stake. The key here is it included mental health in health, and it included the abortionist as the one physician.

States have tried for years to outlaw late term (2nd and 3rd trimester) abortions, but have been unsuccessful. The only successes they have had are in outlawing a specific procedure (partial-birth abortion), but not in outlawing late-term abortions themselves.

Abortion is legal through 9 months of pregnancy. Don't make me out to be the extremist here because I'm stating the facts. Most people don't like to hear it, don't want to know about it, or try to claim that it never really happens. But that doesn't make it go away. Late term abortion is legal -- and it happens more often than most people would care to admit.

Still don't believe it? Go to Abortion Care - George Tiller MD - Wichita, Kansas. This is the website of a doctor who is known for performing late term abortions.

Here's what he says (emphasis mine):

Kansas law allows for post-viability abortion procedures when continuing the pregnancy is detrimental to the pregnant woman's health. Each person's circumstances are reviewed on a case-by-base basis. Please call so that we can discuss admission criteria with you.

[JoJoBanana 0]

Our bodies -our right to do what we see as necessary for survival-mental-physical-or

economical.!......bottom line :smile2:

AND I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS MORE...GET OFF THE "RIGHT TO LIFE" CRAP....BRING BACK PUBLIC EXECUTIONS--FRY THE BABY RAPISTS WE ARE RELEASING TO RAPE AND MURDER AGAIN! WE NEED PRAYER BACK IN SCHOOLS AND OUR LIVES.

WE ARE FEEDING/HOUSING THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PRISONERS THAT SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH WHILE THE MONEY COULD BE BETTER SPENT ON ELDERLY-POOR-UNEDUCATED....BECAUSE OF PEOPLE WITH THE "RIGHT TO LIFE ATTITUDE"WHO HAVE CHANGED A WORKING SYSTEM INTO A MESS.

Edited August 28, 2008 by JoJoBanana
MISSED STATEMENT

[JoJoBanana 0]

i think no matter what help is available or not availabe, abortions are going to continue to happen, either legal or illegal. Some women just don't want babies. Plain and simple. No amount of help offered is going to change their minds. If they don't want it, they don't want it, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

amen!! Exactly.....

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

Our bodies -our right to do what we see as necessary for survival-mental-physical-or

economical.!......bottom line :smile2:

AND I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS MORE...GET OFF THE "RIGHT TO LIFE" CRAP....BRING BACK PUBLIC EXECUTIONS--FRY THE BABY RAPISTS WE ARE RELEASING TO RAPE AND MURDER AGAIN! WE NEED PRAYER BACK IN SCHOOLS AND OUR LIVES.

WE ARE FEEDING/HOUSING THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PRISONERS THAT SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH WHILE THE MONEY COULD BE BETTER SPENT ON ELDERLY-POOR-UNEDUCATED....BECAUSE OF PEOPLE WITH THE "RIGHT TO LIFE ATTITUDE"WHO HAVE CHANGED A WORKING SYSTEM INTO A MESS.

Wow, I'm so glad I don't think like that. BTW: to execute a person takes more money than if we just sentenced them to prison for life.

[Carrie_C 9]

It wasn't just the video that made me think twice. I am a nursing student, and learning about fetal development and everything, there is no way I could think that a fetus is not living. There is no way I could not think it was wrong to end a little life, which is basically what a fetus is. In fact, I know of some students who were prochoice until we took those classes, then they changed their minds.

The "procedure" may be simple, but what actually occurs inside the womb and after is not simple. Do you know that at a lot of places where abortions are done, even first trimester ones, the nurses have to reassemble the fetus to make sure all the parts are there and that none were left inside the woman? How would you like to have that job? That alone has turned many nurses and other medical personel against abortion.

I am not saying that I am against abortion for women who may die having the child. That is a different situation. Either way, someone is going to die, either the mother or the child. I can't imagine having to make that choice. Again, with rape and incest, that is also a terrible thing, and I don't think a woman or young girl should have to be made to carry that child. But let's face it, most abortions are done on healthy women who got pregnant on their own, either using protection or not.

I am not saying that I think abortion should be illegal, I am still on the fence. I just think more women need to be educated on what is actually going on in her body, and what an abortion actually does. I think most of all, unwanted pregnancy needs to be prevented in the first place. There needs to be more education about birth control and abstinence. Then we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now. Too many women use abortions as birth control, and that should not be happening.

[FuelMan 2]

Ok, there gigit, How in the world can you twist facts, to make people who choice not to have "THERE" baby, to the null nazis ?? I can see you have a real hair across your ass on this issue. You talk about knowing prolifers who will take a baby in any shape ???? I'd say there any enough by long shot. OK, maybe one or 10, but not enough to make a small dent in the children that need homes. How many unwanted children do you have ????? How many foster kid do you have in your home ??? Let's be real on this !!!!! There are too many kids for the system to handle and a lot of them get screwed over and taken advantage of. I would rather see an un-born out of a womb by a Hoover then having another murder in prison. I was not talking about life styles and you know it. Before some guy killed another woman, or some innocent bystander, or raped another person I would rather him have been sucked out by the systems Hoover. There are too many people in the world today anyway, so why stress about some poor black or brown being part of the un-born count. I see you as just a little over the top in this issue and I would ask myself........... WHY. I know for myself I need something to focus on and to channel my anger and my passion. What I should be doing is channeling that passion into my eating and my contact with the God of my understanding. So good luck, as this will be my last post on this site. I have not the energy to fight and try to open peoples minds when they refuse to open to the bigger picture.

Butch

[gadgetlady 4]

Our bodies -our right to do what we see as necessary for survival-mental-physical-or

economical

The baby is not your body. If he or she were, I would agree with you 100%. Do whatever you want with your own body -- and I really mean that. Drive your car over a bridge if that's what you want to do -- but not if there's a passenger in the car.

[gadgetlady 4]

It wasn't just the video that made me think twice. I am a nursing student, and learning about fetal development and everything, there is no way I could think that a fetus is not living. There is no way I could not think it was wrong to end a little life, which is basically what a fetus is. In fact, I know of some students who were prochoice until we took those classes, then they changed their minds.

The "procedure" may be simple, but what actually occurs inside the womb and after is not simple. Do you know that at a lot of places where abortions are done, even first trimester ones, the nurses have to reassemble the fetus to make sure all the parts are there and that none were left inside the woman? How would you like to have that job? That alone has turned many nurses and other medical personel against abortion.

I am not saying that I am against abortion for women who may die having the child. That is a different situation. Either way, someone is going to die, either the mother or the child. I can't imagine having to make that choice. Again, with rape and incest, that is also a terrible thing, and I don't think a woman or young girl should have to be made to carry that child. But let's face it, most abortions are done on healthy women who got pregnant on their own, either using protection or not.

I am not saying that I think abortion should be illegal, I am still on the fence. I just think more women need to be educated on what is actually going on in her body, and what an abortion actually does. I think most of all, unwanted pregnancy needs to be prevented in the first place. There needs to be more education about birth control and abstinence. Then we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now. Too many women use abortions as birth control, and that should not be happening.

Carrie, thank you for your thoughtful and insightful approach to this issue. I truly believe education about what abortion does to babies and to their mothers is the most important tool we have to combat abortion.

[Susie Girl 75 0]

The baby is not your body. If he or she were, I would agree with you 100%. Do whatever you want with your own body -- and I really mean that. Drive your car over a bridge if that's what you want to do -- but not if there's a passenger in the car.

Could we beat the same dead horse anymore? Glue factory for pete sake!!! I feel like this thread has been going on since April of 2006!

Jeez... agree to disagree already and let it go!

[JoJoBanana 0]

Wow, I'm so glad I don't think like that. BTW: to execute a person takes more money than if we just sentenced them to prison for life.

you are so wrong

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

"Elimination of the death penalty [in California] would result in a net savings to the state of at least tens of millions of dollars annually, and a net savings to local governments in the millions to tens of millions of dollars on a statewide basis." (Joint Legislative Budget Committee of the California Legislature, 09/9/99)

Total cost of death penalty is 38% greater than total cost of life without parole sentences. (Indiana Criminal Law Study Commission, January 10, 2002)

Since its return to New York in 1995, $160 million has been spent. The New York Daily News estimates that before the first execution takes place, $238 million will be spent.

In addition to the funds required to try death penalty cases, the New York Department of Correctional Services spent $1.3 million to construct New York's 12-inmate death row and pays nearly $300,000 per year to guard the unit. (New York Law Journal, April 30, 2002)

Not that this thread is about the death penalty, but if you're going to disagree, you should support it. Based on my own research on the death penalty I've found that the death penalty is not beneficial for several reasons, which I won't outline here because again, this thread is for abortion. I just get frustrated when people start YELLING about their beliefs, but don't know the facts. If you believe it based on emotion, I'm fine with that, but don't claim you're coming from a place of logic when you're not.

No matter who is killing who for whatever reason (abortion, death penalty, murder) killing someone is not right.

Edited August 29, 2008 by MrsFlipFlops
clarify

[JamieNP 20]

I am for abortion only if the mother's life is in danger. This is my personal opinion. I think, as women, we deserve better than abortion. It does bother me that some people can protest the treatment of animals and the living conditions of chickens, but they are "for" abortion.

[Carrie_C 9]

That's so true.

[pattygreen 5]

YES! It's a terrible thing to be raped. What an injustice to the poor victim. 2 WRONGS don't make a right. The child is the victim of murder if the mother aborts him or her. The mother should carry the child and deliver him and let someone who longs for a child and can't have one adopt him.

[BJean 16]

So the woman is raped and YOU get to decide for her that she must relive that experience for 9 months and then keep looking the product of that rape hard in the face, feeding it, nurturing it and loving it for the rest of her life? Or do you insist that she give it up for adoption because YOU think that is the best thing for everyone involved?

You all have every right to behave in that manner if you get raped. You have no right to determine what is right in each and every case of rape for each and every woman everywhere. You will never convince me that rape is God's plan for impregnating a woman and producing a child. God gave people free will. YOU do not have the right to play God.

For someone to say that there are NO EXCEPTIONS EVER and that every woman, by law, must bring to term each and every fertilized sperm that occurs, is wrong, wrong, wrong.

I believe it is your right to make that decision for yourself, but not for every other woman in America. This is something that we cannot take a giant step backward on. If you don't understand the reason for women's right to choose, I am sorry for you. But making abortion illegal does not work.

Spend your time and energy helping women who find themselves impregnated without their consent. Work for them and the unborn children. Help those children when they are born. But leave the physical medical decision of whether to have a child up to the individual. It is their right, not yours.