who supports right to choose

[brandyII 9]

It's been so rough out there I was contemplating looking into some of my daughter's spell books:scared2:

[BJean 16]

Hey if that would do the trick, I'd second that thought. :biggrin2:

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

Well BJean- I believe that if you're going to take part in an action (any action), you should be ready to accept the CONSEQUENCES. Life is full of consequences. We shouldn't get to pick and choose the ones that are going to occur.

If you go skydiving, you have to sign a waiver that states there could be an unwanted consequence (um, injury or death). Before you go, you understand the consequences. As your parachute gets tangled and you start to plummet, the nature of the universe doesn't allow you to just say, "You know what, this wasn't the consequence I wanted, unfair!" You accepted it prior to getting on the stupid ride!

So yeah, if you can't deal with the consequence of possibly getting pregnant, you're not mature or logical enough to have sex. Period. The beauty of our minds is being able to think through our actions. Apparentely millions of women across the nation have lost that ability.

This is what's wrong with our country. We think we can go around and make whatever decision we want and control the consequences. We think we can live however we want, and then wonder later why things didn't work out the way we planned.

I'm all for safe sex and protection, but surely we're smart enough to know there are consequences to our actions. If the protection you're using isn't 100%, fine- but don't be stupid. Understand you're taking a chance. If you're okay with taking a chance, fine! But don't then later say "Oh, whoops... my mistake."

[ErikMesa 0]

Wow what a hot topic... The poll is pretty overwhelmingy pro-choice or limited choice which matches public opinion polls I've seen over the years.

My personal opinion is abortion should never be used as birth control or to get rid of "a mistake". I do favor it as an option in cases of rape and incest and when the mothers life is in danger. I just can't imagine forcing a rape victim to carry a child to term. I mean they've already been raped (forced to have sex) now they'd be forced to have a baby and carry it for nine months? I can just imagine the suicides you'd see from something like that. But it shouldn't be used as birth control for consensual sex.

That said though I am 100% pro-choice strictly because my beliefs are based on my religious views and we have freedom of religion in this country. Because my religious views and definition of "life" shouldn't be forced on others (which would be forcing my religion on others) I have to trust other people to make the decisions that are right for their own morality.

Alot of it falls back to "when is it a life?". There are so many different interpretations of "life" and when it becomes a life, all based on many beliefs (many of them religious) that it has to be up to the individual. Is it conception? Fertilization? Birth? When it can live on it's own? A certain time? When is it a "life"?

I've never understood why people get abortions for birth control when so many people want to adopt. Then again people are very picky about what they want to adopt.

I just have to hope in this free country that people make the right choice for themselves and can live with the consequences of that choice the rest of their life.

ErikMesa :biggrin:

(Who was adopted 42 years ago)

[BJean 16]

MrsFFs, I can't believe that you would equate skydiving to sex. Sex is a biological drive. Something that we have whether we like it or not or whether we are smart or dumb or ugly or pretty or young or old. No one that I know would be willing to never have sex unless they were willing to have a child.

I have (actually HAD) a close friend who had her tubes tied. She had been checked out and was told she had no ability to have her remaining eggs fertilized by her husband. In fact, she went for years (about 6) without becoming pregnant. However, when she was in her 40's, she did become pregnant. The risks for her were grim (which is why she wanted to be absolutely sure she couldn't become pregnant and had her tubes tied) but because of religious beliefs, and after much torment for her and her husband, she did go through with the pregnancy. It was a surprisingly uncomplicated pregnancy and she was able to deliver a tiny but normal, healthy little girl. But the little girl will never know her mother. Her mother died from complications - expected but unfortunate complications that could not be avoided. The decision not to abort cost her her life. Of course, it gave the world Sarah, which you probably think is what should have happened.

The husband went after the doctor, of course, since we are such a litigious society and it seemed like the right thing to do. But for him and his nearly grown boys, they had to not only cope with the loss of their mother/wife, but they had to decide how that little girl was ever going to know what it was like for her mother to hold her and love her.

Your approach to this problem of broken down birth control and biological drives that we all deal with is simplistic, I think, and totally unrealistic and very, very unfair to babies.

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

I believe I've already clarified my views on this, but I'll do it again. I maintain abortion as an option for those who were raped, cases of incest or, as you described, when the woman's life in in danger. A mother to whom one of these apply should carefully contemplate and make a decision, as it appears your friend did.

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

Another WONDERFUL choice for women who do not want to keep their babies is adoption.

[brandyII 9]

MrsFFs, I can't believe that you would equate skydiving to sex. Sex is a biological drive. Something that we have whether we like it or not or whether we are smart or dumb or ugly or pretty or young or old. No one that I know would be willing to never have sex unless they were willing to have a child.

I have (actually HAD) a close friend who had her tubes tied. She had been checked out and was told she had no ability to have her remaining eggs fertilized by her husband. In fact, she went for years (about 6) without becoming pregnant. However, when she was in her 40's, she did become pregnant. The risks for her were grim (which is why she wanted to be absolutely sure she couldn't become pregnant and had her tubes tied) but because of religious beliefs, and after much torment for her and her husband, she did go through with the pregnancy. It was a surprisingly uncomplicated pregnancy and she was able to deliver a tiny but normal, healthy little girl. But the little girl will never know her mother. Her mother died from complications - expected but unfortunate complications that could not be avoided. The decision not to abort cost her her life. Of course, it gave the world Sarah, which you probably think is what should have happened.

The husband went after the doctor, of course, since we are such a litigious society and it seemed like the right thing to do. But for him and his nearly grown boys, they had to not only cope with the loss of their mother/wife, but they had to decide how that little girl was ever going to know what it was like for her mother to hold her and love her.

Your approach to this problem of broken down birth control and biological drives that we all deal with is simplistic, I think, and totally unrealistic and very, very unfair to babies.

BJean, what a sad story! I know they're two different issues but it kind of reminds me of the old view the Catholic Church had when the life of the mother or baby were in danger during delivery you were to save the life of the baby over the mother's. I always thought of this as barbaric and a typical patriarchal religious view.

[brandyII 9]

Another WONDERFUL choice for women who do not want to keep their babies is adoption.

My sister was date raped at 15 and became pregnant. She didn't even know she was pregnant until she was about 6 months. My mother had died when my sister was only 12 years old.

Anyway, afterwards she started talking to a priest at our school who took her to Planned Parenthood for a test and found out she was but she was still too scared to tell our father. She finally fessed up when she was about 7 months pregnant. She was one who you couldn't tell was pregnant at the time just by looking at her and she hid it well.

My father would have had her have an abortion but at seven months it was too late and he forced her to put the baby up for adoption. He was to remarry and his new wife would not marry him unless she did. That marriage lasted a good year:thumbup:.

It was a very difficult time in our family as we had already experienced the passing of our mother who left behind five wonderful children and now our baby sister had a baby and we were at a loss ourselves as her siblings as to what to do for her.

She gave up that baby boy who she named Michael on 4/1/78 and it was the hardest thing she's ever gone through in her life. I still call her every 4/1 just to say hi because I know she has a hole in her heart that will never mend. I know giving that baby up for adoption had helped another couple that couldn't conceive but still if she had been able to come forward and let us know she was pregnant at an earlier time I do believe it would have been easier on her emotionally to have aborted the fetus.

I know most of you think that's a terrible thing to say but I have no part in that baby's life, man's life actually, never contacted her and it was left open for him to come forward if he ever wanted to contact his birth mother. People can look successful on the outside but be destroyed on the inside and you don't always know. I wish her life had started out differently :thumbup: brandyII.

[gadgetlady 4]

There are often no easy solutions when an unplanned pregnancy happens, but it always amazes me when people say it is easier and better for a mother to brutally kill her child rather than undertake the difficult but wholly unselfish act of giving her child life and placing that child for adoption. It is equally amazing to me that people believe it acceptable to surgically dismember a child at any time prior to natural birth, but it is not acceptable to discipline that child through spanking. Abortion is the ultimate child abuse.

[brandyII 9]

If I choose to have children then I choose also not to hit them and to bring them up in a loving, nurturing, and safe environment.

I'd rather a fetus be aborted than brought up as a child living with violence. I'm not stupid, I realize there's a difference between a tap on the bottom and a beating with a stick but I still choose to use my brain and not my hand.

Abortion is not something that everyone will ever agree on as are many topics, spanking being one of them. I'm lucky that all my pregnancies were planned and I never had to make that decision myself. But it's not something people take likely and I really don't believe that most people who have abortions use it as a birth control method as many have stated previously. It's still a legal medical procedure in the United States.

[TommyO 5]

Just to be clear, the decision is an individual one, Gadget gets to decide for Gadget and Flipflops decides for Flipflops. They do not get to decide for others, they can have an opinion but they don't get to decide. They will never get that and I understand that, it's okay to think you should be able to force your beleifs on others as long as you are not actually able to do so.

[luluc 6]

That said though I am 100% pro-choice strictly because my beliefs are based on my religious views and we have freedom of religion in this country. Because my religious views and definition of "life" shouldn't be forced on others (which would be forcing my religion on others) I have to trust other people to make the decisions that are right for their own morality.

ErikMesa

(Who was adopted 42 years ago)

completely fair!!! thank your for your response erik!!

i am respectful enough of other's value system & religious beliefs to not thrust mine onto them. i'd like that same courtsey.

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

Tommy- by you advocating FOR abortion means your trying to shove YOUR beliefs down MY throat. Everyone here can be accused of exactly what you're saying. By wanting to change the law or advocating for keeping the law, you're pushing your beliefs onto a society and individuals.

[BJean 16]

As I have said before, adoption is not the always the best solution to correct the problem of a woman becoming pregnant against her wishes.

The fact that you qualify your stance on abortion MrsFFs, to exclude women who have been raped, are victims of incest or when a woman's life is in danger tells me that you do have some compassion for a woman who has become pregnant against her wishes. The difference between you and me seems to be that I believe that the decision of whether a woman is healthy enough to have a baby is not something that others should decide for her.

Many people have posted that since the law states that it is a decision that can legally be made by a woman, that's that. Unfortunately, as others have noted many times, it is a law that some people think should be changed. They believe that the law should force all women to continue every pregnancy, whether it is in the best interests of the woman or not.

That is unacceptable to me and I agree with Tommy. Those who are against women having abortions are perfectly free not to have abortions. They are also free to assist any woman who wants their help in making a decision of whether to abort a fetus or bring a fetus to term. It is a free country. That is fair.

But if it is to continue to be a free country - equality for all - then it is incumbent upon us to do all we can to keep women's right to choose the law of the land. Women's freedom and equality should not be taken away because one segment of society has a belief that they should be able to control women by forcing them to continue unplanned, unwanted pregnancies that put women at risk. They even want to decide for women what set of circumstances constitute risk.

The only person who is fully qualified to determine that risk level is the woman. She is responsible for making the tremendously important decision of whether she can continue a pregnancy and survive it. She should not be judged by those who seek to control her life and that of her fetus. That is not freedom and equality by any stretch of the imagination. We have to protect women from those who wish to impose their beliefs and will upon them.