who supports right to choose

[BJean 16]

Keep it up. I know it makes you feel good and important. I don't believe that you're fooling most of us.

The bottom line is you believe that women should not have the right to choose what happens to them or their baby in utero. I think women do have that right - no matter what the circumstances or conditions. None of the stats or grisley photos or skewed numbers will ever change that for me.

Everyone else can decide for themselves. Your purpose is quite clear here however and I am really exhausted from all the things your camp has brought up to try to influence people. I have to hope and believe that most women are not as gullible as some obviously are.

[Aphrodite1984 2]

Ugh.... Ok, I hate that I am replying to this since I am really not interested in arguing anymore. Bandedmom....I truly love a debate as much as the next person, but quite honestly I can recognize a self-righteous Christian when I see one, and I have no interest in engaging in a debate with one...sorry. I am not going to convince you to believe what I believe, and trust me, I am not budging in my opinion. So whats the point? Call it what you want, I believe that a woman's choice over her body is supreme. If I had a tumor growing in my uterus...I would cut that out too. Murder?...if you say so. My body, my choice. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

PS: I can stomach just about anything....thats why I need a LapBand...hahahaha. No seriously though, it takes an awful lot to shock me. If you had any idea what I see every day at work you would probably have a bunch of bloody pictures and skewed articles to condemn that too....haha.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Aphrodite1984

[gadgetlady 4]

The bottom line is you believe that women should not have the right to choose what happens to them or their baby in utero.

You are almost correct. I do believe women have the right to choose what happens to themselves, so long as that "choice" does not involve another human life. I do not believe a mother has a right to kill her child, regardless of physical location of that child.

[gadgetlady 4]

Ugh.... Ok, I hate that I am replying to this since I am really not interested in arguing anymore. Bandedmom....I truly love a debate as much as the next person, but quite honestly I can recognize a self-righteous Christian when I see one, and I have no interest in engaging in a debate with one

Interesting -- you won't debate because BandedMom is a Christian, or you perceive her to be one? And yet she posted a link to a pro-life, feminist, athiest webpage. Hmmmm.

[BJean 16]

gadget since you believe that women do not have the right to choose what will happen to their bodies in the case of unwanted pregnancies, it means that we do not agree.

Exclusions for any reason are not acceptable to me. I will never believe that it is right for other people to EVER tell a woman in peril that she does not get to choose what to do when she has become pregnant against her wishes.

You've made your case many times about how abortion is killing and that there are no exceptions, I get that. I just don't believe that it is within your rights to tell me that you get to decide for me (and that my beliefs are subordinate to yours) regarding my own body and my embryo's body.

I do understand that you believe that you must intervene in order to save unborn children. But I believe that you have no rights to my womb or my fetus - ever.

Your beliefs do not trump mine - EVER - when it comes to my living tissue, including my blood, sweat, tears, bones, brain, fertilized egg or unfertilized eggs, or any other part of my person. You will have to incarcerate me and put me on a death watch 24/7 and keep me shackled in restraints in order to have your beliefs enforced on my person. It isn't likely that you will be able to do that and I would resist with my body and soul to keep you from forcing me to do your bidding.

[gadgetlady 4]

gadget since you believe that women do not have the right to choose what will happen to their bodies in the case of unwanted pregnancies, it means that we do not agree.

I never said we agree.

You said:

The bottom line is you believe that women should not have the right to choose what happens to them or their baby in utero.

I said:

You are almost correct. I do believe women have the right to choose what happens to themselves, so long as that "choice" does not involve another human life. I do not believe a mother has a right to kill her child, regardless of physical location of that child.

In other words, you ascribed to me the sentiment that women should not have the right to choose what happens to them or their babies. I said you are partly correct about what beliefs you ascribe to me: I believe women should have the absolute right to choose what happens to themselves, except for when that right interferes with the life of another human being.

I just don't believe that it is within your rights to tell me that you get to decide for me (and that my beliefs are subordinate to yours) regarding my own body and my embryo's body.

The baby is not your body. Unless, when pregnant, a mother has two brains, two hearts, four arms, for legs, and two sets of reproductive organs (one of which, approximately 50% of the time, is male).

[BJean 16]

The baby is absolutely part of my body. There's no other way to interpret it. Those addtional arms, legs, lungs, brain, etc., are mine and entirely my responsibility. It is not a separate individual until it is a separate individual. It cannot survive without me. As an individual it has no automatic right to life unless I give it life because it cannot live without me. My blood it its' blood, my oxygen is its' oxygen, etc. It is emcumbent upon me to determine what will happen to my fertilized egg. You and others have no rights to my eggs, fertilized or not.

You could become involved if my fertilized egg were to be implanted into your womb. Then it would be your responsibility to grow it into a human being. You could provide nourishment through your blood and other organs. You could give it life. Or if it didn't live, you would be responsible for not giving it life.

If someone presented the idea that all embryos should be removed, become the property of the government and subsequently implanted into donor uteruses chosen by the government or implanted into women, like you, who insist that they have the right to save each and every fertilized egg in this world, then that's a whole 'nuther ball game and set of beliefs to argue about. I'm sure that the lines would still be drawn with some people believing that they can tell other people what they should believe and what they should do with their fertilized eggs.

There's no need to state that "we must agree to disagree" because that was determined hundreds of pages ago. Where's the icon beating its' head against a brick wall when you need it? :crying:

[gadgetlady 4]

The baby is absolutely part of my body. There's no other way to interpret it. Those addtional arms, legs, lungs, brain, etc., are mine and entirely my responsibility.

Human beings don't have two separate sets of DNA and they don't have two brains. There's no other way to interpret it. The place of residence is inconsequential to the baby's humanness.

My blood it its' blood

No, it has a separate circulatory system -- which is why there are sometimes medical issues when a mother has a different blood type from the baby.

There's no need to state that "we must agree to disagree" because that was determined hundreds of pages ago. Where's the icon beating its' head against a brick wall when you need it? :crying:

It's your choice to keep answering.

[Aphrodite1984 2]

I love you BJean.

[BJean 16]

I love you too Aphrodite.

gadget: Yes, the fetus has a circulatory system unique to it, but the mother's blood is used to make the baby's and they share the same body. That's why my DIL had to take shots to keep her baby from killing her.

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

I will never believe that it is right for other people to EVER tell a woman in peril that she does not get to choose what to do when she has become pregnant against her wishes.quote]

Except in a case of rape, when does a woman become pregnant "against her wishes". She chose to have sex. She's knows the possible consequences... that was her CHOICE.

[brandyII 9]

I'm lucky that I've never really had to make the tough decision a lot of women have had to make and not lightly. But as far as I know abortion is still legal in the United States and I don't think anyone should take away a woman's right to her own body! brandyII

[BJean 16]

MrsFFs, please tell me you're kidding. There are no birth control methods or medications that are 100% effective. None. Even having your tubes tied is not a 100% guarantee that you won't get pregnant. So are you saying that when there is a failure, the price a woman should always have to pay is to bring an unwanted child into the world? So the ONLY time people should have sex is to procreate?

My goodness, that is a very hard line to take and it is hardly realistic. If that is how you feel, you should live that way. But it does not make sense for you to hold everyone else to your standards and beliefs. Besides, babies are far too important to be used as punishment.

[brandyII 9]

BJean,

Where the heck have you been! You're not allowed to take time off! LOL brandyII.:biggrin: spell check

[BJean 16]

Yup. Gotta opt out once in a while. Good to see that you were hangin' in! :biggrin: