who supports right to choose

[marjon9 6]

Ok, please don't take offense, but UNWILLINGLY? You made a choice to have sex. When you do that, you are pretty much accepting the consequences. That is the point of my entire argument on this issue. Woman who choose to have sex and then are unwilling to accept the consequence of their actions. I find it to be selfish. Frankly. I know that sounds a bit mean. Your son or daughter and I would almost be the same age.

Sweethot, your position on this matter comes down to this: Don't have sex unless you are prepared to have a baby exactly 9 months from that moment.

No matter what you say about that point of view, at least you must realize that it is totally unrealistic. People are absolutely not ever going to live their lives by that rule.

Take green for example. She has made clear that she never wanted children. She has always been clear about that in her own mind. She attempted to have her tubes tied and was refused by the doctor. So, as her advisor, you would say to her, "sorry green, you must never have sex for the rest of your life, even if you use contraception, because there is a tiny chance that the contraception might not work." Sweethot, get real!! It's fine if you want to live your life by those rules, but it is absurd to expect other people to do the same.

You have a certain point of view here that you believe every person must live by in order to be "right." Yet you and everyone else in the world can clearly see that no one is ever going to actually live like that, except for a very few that may choose to. So what is the point? It seems like such an exercise in futility to believe in something that is never, ever, in a million years, actually going to happen.

[sweethot143 2]

my own personal motto is "Do what is right, let the consequence follow"

In most cases the right thing to do would be to have your baby and do your best for that baby either by raising it yourself or giving it up. If you aren't ready to be a mother then you aren't ready to be having sex.

I don't know if the government making these decisions for us is the 100% right thing to do either.

There isn't a 100% good way to handle this issue. There will always be those who don't fit the normal pattern. There will always be the extreme cases, such as rape, or the baby is severely deformed, or the mother's life is in danger and will most likey die. Under those extreme cases, I do not believe the government should have say, absolutely not, it should be on a case by case basis with some counseling and education provided for the mothers.

[phyllisc 0]

Diane Rhem is a highly respected radio journalist in the Washington D.C. area. She's sort of like the Bill Moyers of radio. Wikipedia describes her show as follows:

The Diane Rehm Show is an award-winning National Public Radio call-in show with more than 1.7 million listeners. It is produced by WAMU and hosted by Diane Rehm. The show debuted on WAMU in the 1970s as Kaleidoscope, a weekday morning arts and discussion program. Diane took over as host in 1979, and it became The Diane Rehm Show in 1984.

===========================

On her show today she hosted an abortion doctor, Susan Wicklund, who has written a book about her experiences. The "blurb" introducing the show describes it as: "A doctor on the front lines of the abortion wars explains why she does what she does,the steps she takes to protect herself, and why she believes she's providing a vital service."

I listened to most of the show and found it quite interesting. It included call-ins with questions from people on both sides of the issue, including some tough questions from "pro life" people. Dr. Wicklund's responses to the questions, not surprisingly, support the so-called "pro-choice" point of view. Those in the "pro life" side of things will, naturally, take issue with most of what Dr. Wicklund says. But nonetheless I believe anyone interested in the topic will find the show interesting and valuable. Even though Dr. Wicklund is pro-choice, she is "describing" based on personal experience, rather than "advocating" a particular position. Her discussion of the issues is frank, honest and personal, and she offers useful insights.

You can find a link to play the whole broadcast on your computer on Real Player or Windows Media Player here:

WAMU 88.5 FM American University Radio - The Diane Rehm Show

Look about half way down the page for the links to this segment.

If you do listen to the show keep in mind that Diane Rhem has had some issues with her voice lately, and her voice is currently a bit shaky.

There are also excerpts from Susan Wicklund's book in the latest issue of More Magazine. It is very well written and it really hit home to me the reason why abortion must never be made illegal again. Honestly, it made me cry to even think of what women would have to go through if their bodies are ever again held hostage to anyone but themselves.

[sweethot143 2]

Sweethot, your position on this matter comes down to this: Don't have sex unless you are prepared to have a baby exactly 9 months from that moment.

No matter what you say about that point of view, at least you must realize that it is totally unrealistic. People are absolutely not ever going to live their lives by that rule.

Take green for example. She has made clear that she never wanted children. She has always been clear about that in her own mind. She attempted to have her tubes tied and was refused by the doctor. So, as her advisor, you would say to her, "sorry green, you must never have sex for the rest of your life, even if you use contraception, because there is a tiny chance that the contraception might not work." Sweethot, get real!! It's fine if you want to live your life by those rules, but it is absurd to expect other people to do the same.

You have a certain point of view here that you believe every person must live by in order to be "right." Yet you and everyone else in the world can clearly see that no one is ever going to actually live like that, except for a very few that may choose to. So what is the point? It seems like such an exercise in futility to believe in something that is never, ever, in a million years, actually going to happen.

Yeah, I get it that others choose not to live by those standards, that's fine, but don't kill others over it. YOu have sex, then yes you are accepting the consequences of your actions. Killing the baby should be such an easy option. YOu know, maybe it will always be an option, but hopefully not so readily available.

In other posts in this thread, it's been mentioned that noone will ever change their thinking on being pro-life or pro-choice. But reading this thread more and more, has me somewhat agreeing that the government making a blanket law over every single pregnancy regardless of circumstance isn't the best thing for women. I'm still totally pro-life, and the government had nothing to do with that.

I would like to see woman have more pride and be less selfish, and be able to make an informed decision, not jump at an abortion because you can get one on every corner. That really is the easy way out. Noone would even have to know, you could just put it behind you and move on. But the baby knows. God knows. It's not the right thing to do in most cases and there is always a consequence for an action, always.

If abortions were much harder to get , I think less woman would make that choice. Some may still of course. I get that. I think the younger ones, under 25 may be less likely to kill the baby with a bit more education and a harder to come by abortion.

[luluc 6]

I don't think making abortion harder to get is an answer that will satisfy any camp in this discussion. I also doubt that anyone here has "converted" from one movement to the other, there is and will always be those that are Pro Life, and those Pro Choice - each feeling as passionate as the next on how this topic touches them.

Properly safeguarding against the possibilty of pregnancy, is a notion that many take seriously. If that 'fails', the obligation to carry the baby should not be an issue of law/government when a woman is making the decision to abort or carry, irregardless of her age (under 25 - as mentioned above).

As and adult, I'm not convinced nor will ever be that sex should be slated for those whose only intention is to have a child. As sexual beings, that's just not feasible.

I enjoy the discussion - For me it's larger than just being Pro Choice. I feel there is a huge issue in the Healthcare of Women as a whole & for that (sorry men) I am extremely nervous when male politicians want to legislate on how a woman decides her medical needs.

[ashabama 1]

yeh, I don't think anyone will ever have the right answer to this or anything lol

[green 6]

Ok, please don't take offense, but UNWILLINGLY? You made a choice to have sex. When you do that, you are pretty much accepting the consequences. That is the point of my entire argument on this issue. Woman who choose to have sex and then are unwilling to accept the consequence of their actions. I find it to be selfish. Frankly. I know that sounds a bit mean. Your son or daughter and I would almost be the same age.

Interesting point, Sweethot. But you must understand that I chose to claim the same rights to my body that any man has to his - that is to say the right to be able to enjoy sex without hindrance. Why should I settle for fewer rights simply because I am a woman? According to your logic I should be wearing a hijab and a niqab for I have no right to be sexually active. Indeed, all women who are not prepared to bear children should be wearing burqas, eh? We can only put on our Hooter's gear once we want to get preggers, is that it?

You must also understand that my operating set of ethics is quite different from either yours or ash colvin's. I am not a Christian. Many people are not. I do not believe that the rights of the foetus trump mine until it is able to live independently outside of the maternal support system. I also do not feel that I must pay a penalty simply because I happen to be a woman. I certainly had no sentimental attachment to what was simply another acorn in this great big forest of oak trees. I don't like babies and I was horrified by the very idea of being pregnant; this is why I was very careful about using birth control.

[BJean 16]

luluc you make some very sound points and have stated them succinctly. Good for you.

green, I don't think you should have fewer rights than men in this world although many people do feel that it is the way God intended. That makes it pretty hard to debate sometimes.

I also do not think that a woman should be penalized even if she didn't have the presence of mind (for whatever reason) to use birth control. If a woman unintentionally becomes pregnant, does not want to nurture a fetus to term, has no will or desire to have a child, she should not be compelled to have one and it is unfair to a baby for her to be made to have it. Many people here believe that not being born is the worst thing in the world while I know that there are worse things. No one should have control over the fertilized egg in another person.

The fact that there might be fewer abortions if it were to be made illegal, is not a valid reason to allow the state to make that decision for us.

[green 6]

Yep, I don't think any woman should be forced to sit in the penalty box for 9 months because she had sex, something which we are genetically hardwired to do.

[ashabama 1]

yeh but you shouldn't murder a child either! And pregnancy is a gift! Sitting in a penalty box..yeah right. That's just a copp out for people are to irresponsible to take care of another life. I know some people don't want kids but seriously what else is so important you don't want to enjoy the greatest treaure known to a woman? I just think its just strange.

[kagoscuba 0]

"And pregnancy is a gift!"

Pregnancy is objectively biological, not a gift. Subjectively, however, it may be a gift or a treasure, based on personal beliefs. I know plenty of women who abhor the idea of ever having a baby. I also know plenty of others who had babies because it was the "family thing to do," (nothing to do with the abortion argument) and they are miserable mothers because they truly never wanted kids in the first place.

[marjon9 6]

yeh but you shouldn't murder a child either! And pregnancy is a gift! Sitting in a penalty box..yeah right. That's just a copp out for people are to irresponsible to take care of another life. I know some people don't want kids but seriously what else is so important you don't want to enjoy the greatest treaure known to a woman? I just think its just strange.

I understand that you believe that a fertilized egg is exactly the same as "a child." The thing is, most people don't believe that. No one has any problem with you believing whatever you want. The problem comes in when people who believe like you do trying to use the power of the government to force other people, those who disagree with you, against their will, to live by your view of what is right. That's really the only issue here. The issue is, do you have the right to force other people to live their lives by your religious moral code. The majority of Americans believe that you do not have that right. Even many people who oppose abortion for themselves do not believe that you have the right to force your views on others.

I know how hard it is for you. You truly believe that a fertilized egg is "a child." Since you believe that way, you naturally believe that abortion is "murder." Since you believe that, you are practically forced to try and end abortion, even if it means forcing other women to carry an embryo to term against their wishes. Obviously this is a very difficult issue for everyone.

But most Americans believe that you do not have the right to force your views on people who disagree that a fertilized egg is "a child." Up until now, the courts have said that the Constitution protects women from being forced to carry an embryo to term against their wishes.

The bottom line is, after all these decades of "choice," there is simply no going back. The women of American who believe in choice will never allow the government to control their lives this way. That is true regardless of what the law says. The only difference is, if abortion is made illegal, the less afluent women will die and be injured in large numbers from unsanitary and improper medical care attendant to illegal abortions.

[ashabama 1]

First I never said anything about the goverment and wanting them to make it illegal or anything thing like that....I simply stated an oppinion and left it at that...so when your labeling people because of oppinions get it right. People like me?? No if I had said anything like that I would have understood your large body of text. But until you fully understand where a person is coming from...don't assume anything. I don't think it's right but I don't think the goverment should tell people whether they can do it or not. Now that that is covered! And yes I think pregnancy is a gift! And I do base that belief in my religion and my faith. And those who don't think that I have no problem with. I am in no way attacking anyone and I would not like to be attacked about my oppinion! Some of ya'll are crazy but I see where ya'll are coming from. Who am I to judge anyone. I think its wrong but I am not gonna think any less of a person for having an abortion...I just know that I wouldnt. Am I making sense or is it going over some heads. I know I am unconventional in my thinking but at least I am honest about it.

[luluc 6]

yeh but you shouldn't murder a child either! And pregnancy is a gift! Sitting in a penalty box..yeah right. That's just a copp out for people are to irresponsible to take care of another life. I know some people don't want kids but seriously what else is so important you don't want to enjoy the greatest treaure known to a woman? I just think its just strange.

I struggle with your statement & how to respond, but feel as though Marjon & Kagoscuba eloquently described my thoughts exactly. Your comments above in this thread state that you understand that "neither side has the right answer in this debate", with an added LOL to the end of it...This current post suggests that it's a copp out or murder. I'm confused about your true belief on this topic when you can be so flippant in one post, and downright passionate in another. I mean no ill disrespect as I say this, it truly is a simple issue of Gov't interference in a womans Right to Choose, irregardless of ones personal value system.

[marjon9 6]

First I never said anything about the goverment and wanting them to make it illegal or anything thing like that....I simply stated an oppinion and left it at that...so when your labeling people because of oppinions get it right. People like me?? No if I had said anything like that I would have understood your large body of text. But until you fully understand where a person is coming from...don't assume anything. I don't think it's right but I don't think the goverment should tell people whether they can do it or not. .

You are right I did assume that you were advocating that abortion become illegal. My mistake. The thing is, most people who believe that abortion is "killing a child" do think that it should be illegal. But in any event, you are correct, I did incorrectly jump to that conclusion in your case.