who supports right to choose

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I can only hope that by discussing this again and again we can at least increase the understanding between both sides and discard the bitterness and hatred.

No, that's not fair. I point blank asked you questions and instead of responding to the questions you wrote a long post explaining how mean I am and you won't respond.

While that may be easier, that is NOT discussion!

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

What right does one religion have to inflict their beliefs on another? The belief that an embryo is a human being is a belief based on religion. Science and laws claim otherwise.

Why is it that if a doctor stands up and pushes forward (many times at the risk of his own life) doing what he believes to be true it is a horror. If a Catholic priest in Iraq does the same thing it is courageous?

My *personal* belief is that I respect human life, period. An embryo is human life, it is not a human being, a person. It's not canine life, it's human. I respect human life therefore *I* would not have an abortion. I will not assist in abortions, never have. But that does not mean I have the right to inflict my feelings on others. Why do others claim to have a right to inflict their beliefs on other women? I don't get it.

[L8BloomR 1]

Do you realize it would have been faster and easier to answer the questions vs. writing out in detail why you won't respond?

The questions are not tough. They are pretty simple. But the above is what I expect in this type of debate. Instead of admitting someone else has a point, attack the person instead of agreeing on small points.

Look in the mirror. I asked you to show me where I said what you continually accused me of saying, but you never did. You just chose a new attack. And if you would actually read what I wrote in my response, you would see that it was taking me a long time to respond to anything because I was constantly being interrupted at home. By the time I finished trying to learn something about the discussed abortion doctor, write my response and submit it, I discovered about 7 more posts from both you and Rob, in which you were demanding I answer your "hypothetical situations" and making fun of my lack of response to them. Posts I hadn't even read yet, but that didn't occur to you, apparently. I have never had anyone attack me like that on LBT. It was mean and childish and completely unnecessary, as I would have gotten to your hypotheticals with my next post. But I didn't see any need to try to continue the discussion after that because it was apparent that you weren't interested in learning or discussing, just in one-upmanship at any cost. I'm not interested.

[L8BloomR 1]

No, that's not fair. I point blank asked you questions and instead of responding to the questions you wrote a long post explaining how mean I am and you won't respond.

While that may be easier, that is NOT discussion!

Again, another attack.... I can't even remember what the questions were that you asked, and why they pertain to this discussion. If you want to re-ask them, please do. I don't have the time to hunt down and sift through all the negative stuff to find them.

[joe7777 1]

it's kind of hard when you're going at snails pace...we're here supporting everything and within 5 minutes i can find most answers i need. But if you want me to RE-ASK for the 3rd of 4th time the hypothetical scenario, i would like a yes or no on that.

[joe7777 1]

1. You are a nazi concentration camp survivor

2. You are freed and you study medicine

3. You become a doctor.

4. You are ahead of your time before it's legal in your country to perform a procedure (in the sense that you see it as a medical procedure and they see it as a crime)

5. You openly claim what you have done, because you are a strong believer in the fact that it is safe and better than the alternative (black market procedures/ unsafe practices)

6. You go to court all the way until the supreme court claims you are right

7. Your clinics are at constant threat from violence and harrasment.

Regardless of what procedure...Is this person not courageous?

(this is the true story of Dr. Henry Morgentaler)

[L8BloomR 1]

it's kind of hard when you're going at snails pace...we're here supporting everything and within 5 minutes i can find most answers i need. But if you want me to RE-ASK for the 3rd of 4th time the hypothetical scenario, i would like a yes or no on that.

Excuse me for the "snail's pace".... I didn't know this was a race and I am at work and can only write when things are calm around me. Currently I have workmen in my office taking apart my lighting. I will get to your next post and try to answer, if you can stay awake long enough.

[joe7777 1]

Wow, why even bother writing that...you could've read the scenario and answered yes or no...not that hard!

[gadgetlady 4]

1. You are a nazi concentration camp survivor

2. You are freed and you study medicine

3. You become a doctor.

4. You are ahead of your time before it's legal in your country to perform a procedure (in the sense that you see it as a medical procedure and they see it as a crime)

5. You openly claim what you have done, because you are a strong believer in the fact that it is safe and better than the alternative (black market procedures/ unsafe practices)

6. You go to court all the way until the supreme court claims you are right

7. Your clinics are at constant threat from violence and harrasment.

Regardless of what procedure...Is this person not courageous?

(this is the true story of Dr. Henry Morgentaler)

Boy, I sure wish I had time to be here today! I barely have time to read, much less post, on the free wi-fi I found on land today.

Think about all Hitler and Stalin did to rise to power. Weren't they courageous??? To get all that power in the face of those trying to depose and fight them?

No, he is not courageous. He is evil. I do not ever applaud the efforts of mass murderers, regardless of how innovative they are.

[joe7777 1]

Alright, thats all i was looking for. Although i don't agree. And i specifically did NOT mention the procedure, this is after all hypothetical. Although you know what he has done you are supposed to pretend you don't. You were SUPPOSED to act like it was any OTHER type of doctor. I even explained why. So we could be on even ground. To AVOID all the morality stuff. What if he was a gynecologist in a muslim country, the best there is and it is illegal for him to practise because the religious laws state that no man other than a womans husband may touch her? THAT'S the kind of thinking i wanted you to do...i guess it's too out of the box for you. I'll try to keep my questions simple next time.

[L8BloomR 1]

1. You are a nazi concentration camp survivor

2. You are freed and you study medicine

3. You become a doctor.

4. You are ahead of your time before it's legal in your country to perform a procedure (in the sense that you see it as a medical procedure and they see it as a crime)

5. You openly claim what you have done, because you are a strong believer in the fact that it is safe and better than the alternative (black market procedures/ unsafe practices)

6. You go to court all the way until the supreme court claims you are right

7. Your clinics are at constant threat from violence and harassment.

Regardless of what procedure...Is this person not courageous?

(this is the true story of Dr. Henry Morgentaler)

Well, this is what I was trying to answer last night. You say this is a true story of someone, but since I don't know this person, I was trying to find out more about him. I hate taking anyone's word about anything until I try to learn it myself. I'm funny that way. As far as this scenario, what I can say is that anyone who survived a concentration camp is brave and deserves respect. Anyone who studies and learns enough to become a doctor also deserves respect. As for the rest, it would depend on so many factors to answer that. It would depend on the procedure, the reasons the law is against it, and so many other things. Quack doctors think all sorts of things are good and necessary, but many others would disagree. In the U.S., a doctor who performs "mercy killings" thinks he has invented something that is useful and beneficial and humanitarian, but there is a huge debate on that and currently he is not allowed to practice. You could say many of the same good things about him, also. I would not call him courageous for the killings he has done, although I can sympathize with the people who think so. So that is why this scenario does not have a quick "yes" or "no" answer to it and needed more information. If you are talking strictly about abortion and this doctor, again, since I am not for abortion, I probably would not use the word "courageous" to describe him, but I can say that it sounds like he has done alot of important things with his life and I am sure he thinks he is doing the right things. Does that answer the question?

[joe7777 1]

Wow, you really would love me (Also pro-euthanasia) LOL!

[gadgetlady 4]

Although you know what he has done you are supposed to pretend you don't. You were SUPPOSED to act like it was any OTHER type of doctor. I even explained why. So we could be on even ground. To AVOID all the morality stuff. What if he was a gynecologist in a muslim country, the best there is and it is illegal for him to practise because the religious laws state that no man other than a womans husband may touch her? THAT'S the kind of thinking i wanted you to do...i guess it's too out of the box for you. I'll try to keep my questions simple next time.

Oh, sorry. I didn't know the rules you had set up for this game. Next time I'll make sure I abide by them because I wouldn't want to say anything to offend you.

So: by your rules: if you had presented me with that scenario and I didn't know in advance that the doctor was a mass murderer, I probably would have asked more questions before answering the question. Numbers 4, 5, 6, and 7 would have been a tip-off that more information was needed.

[joe7777 1]

Ok, fine, excuse me for trying to put everyone on the same level. If you would ask me something of a similar nature i would agree. EX:

Would you think that a person who died for other people's sins is great.

I would answer yes... i would'nt ask , did this start a religion in who'se name millions of people were killed, or anything else. I would stick to THAT scenario.

[joe7777 1]

Also, LOL to your ''Looking forward to life'' ... good luck with that.