who supports right to choose

[marjon9 6]

'Roe v. Wade for Men' suit nixed - U.S. Life - MSNBC.com

Your thoughts? Should a father be forced to pay child support if he wanted the mother to have an abortion?

To me this does not seem like a close call. It seems clear that once the child is born the father has to pay.

The facts indicate that the woman either did not know she could become pregnant or deliberately tricked the man by telling him that she could not get pregnant. This does indicate that the man has some points on his side and it is a raw deal to be forced to pay child support for 18 years after being deceived. But still, once the child is born there is just no other way.

[j_war06 0]

mmm....no that could open up a massive can of worms.

I do however think child support laws do need to be reformed so women pay a larger amount.

My mother paid I think it was 175 a month for me and my sister both. My father looked into it and if she had gotten custody he would have had to pay 800 each.

Its generally based on income of the supporter and other factors, not gender

[DerickM 1]

not true in my experience.

For example, a mechanic friend of mine has a little girl. He makes $9.25 a hour he pays $750 a month in child support. the mother works as a RN so she is not 'dependent' upon the money at all.

A friend of my sisters has a little daughter as well. she makes $12 an hour as a CNA. She pays $125 a month in child support.

Same story different chorus, goes for every other case I know of.

Maybe it is just Oregon but still, it's messed up.

[j_war06 0]

not true in my experience.

For example, a mechanic friend of mine has a little girl. He makes $9.25 a hour he pays $750 a month in child support. the mother works as a RN so she is not 'dependent' upon the money at all.

A friend of my sisters has a little daughter as well. she makes $12 an hour as a CNA. She pays $125 a month in child support.

Same story different chorus, goes for every other case I know of.

Maybe it is just Oregon but still, it's messed up.

I know that my court ordered child support (from the father) will be like 50 bucks a month lol! IF THAT! But by chance in hell and it froze over he was to have custody (purely hypothetical, he cant have custody) I would have to pay out the REAR for child support. At one job I make $50 a day at another I make anywhere from 12-16 dollars an hour! I would have to pay more, even though hes 25, has no education and constant job, I have to work 2 jobs and I go to school. Even when I get my AAA I would have to pay even more because I would be making so much more money. But im sure the court does take it somewhat easier on mothers than fathers, I mean after all we carried it around for 9 months and popped it out of a pretty small hole lol!

[kagoscuba 0]

Hell, child-support for a child that is your is a nothing story. How about the thousands of fathers per year who have to pay for children that aren't theirs? That's right, in many states, if you ever agree the child is yours, then a couple of years later find out through DNA the child is some other man's, you STILL have to pay child support. Nice.

That being said, any man who refuses to pay child-support because he wanted the woman to have an abortion and she didn't is an a-hole who should be forced to be sterilized.

[gadgetlady 4]

That being said, any man who refuses to pay child-support because he wanted the woman to have an abortion and she didn't is an a-hole who should be forced to be sterilized.

What about a father who wants to take the child and the mother refuses and has an abortion? Should she be sterilized?

[green 6]

Oh, ugh! This is one of the dirty areas, isn't it? We have heard so many stories of men who were tricked into fatherhood by women who claimed that they were on the pill or had the I.U.D. installed or whatever.

We must admit that there can be a serious split between male and female interests when the pair of them settle down to engage in a sexual relationship. The guy figures that they are indulging in some sort of light-hearted exploratory fun and the chick is ready to settle down and be a family already. This can become much messier when there is a status split; this is to say that if the girl sees that her male comes with superior qualities - social status, education, finances, etc - she will be more inclined to capture him by presenting him with an unexpected and unwanted pregnancy. Now, I am one of those who doesn't view this kind of activity as being altogether heinous: I view it as being as an altogether logical outcome when viewed within the framework of our mammalian hardwiring. It is normal that when a female seeks to pass on her DNA she will seek out the best of her species and, moreover, that she will be anxious that she and her offspring be sheltered while the kiddiwinks are young and she is still raising them.

Of course you must understand all of the above signifies that Green has bought into the argument that humans are part of the continuum of nature and as such we are equally subject to the laws of nature.

If you believe, as I do, that we - the big head mammals of this planet - share a great deal of our hardwiring with our primitive ancestors and with our less intellectual friends then you will understand that all creatures are driven by 2 directives: 1) to stay alive as long as possible, and 2) to ensure that their genetic inheritance is passed on. You will, as big heads, obviously quickly figure out that this task, that of ensuring that your genetic material is successfully passed on to future generations, will be substantially different depending on whether you are male or female.

Males can easily spray their genetic material out over just about everything. They figure that sooner or later someone is going to get knock up with their DNA. Females, on the other hand, will always find themselves handicapped for the duration of their pregnancies and it is for this reason, particularly in the case of mammals, that we will see that females will tend to be both fussier and trickier when it comes to this business of choosing the male genetic contribution. Sadly, the story becomes a little slimier than this. Females will often choose to mate with the cat whom they perceive to be the most powerful, the most macho guy; and if this same guy is not perceived to be a warm, loving and nurturing mate, females will involve themselves with much nicer males and will pass off their babies as being the result of these kind and loving unions.

Research in DNA technology is interesting, even for a vacant, artsy, ageing blonde such as myself. This research indicates that this split in breeding/parental activities take place with any number of us mammals, including us big-head mammals.

Once again I have found myself drifting far afield. I suspect that this is because I truly do believe in choice and the corrollary of this is that both men and women must be fully engaged in this issue of an unwanted pregnancy. It is certainly true that some women will use an unexpected pregnancy as a tool in order to snare a mate. It is equally true that a woman can find herself trapped by an unwanted pregnancy for no good reason and if her ethics do not permit her to abort there should be no reason why she must find herself hung up all alone. The ideal is that everyone who engages in sexual bizness takes care of him or herself but this doesn't always work, alas.

To tell you the truth, Gadget, we have 2 stories which you might find of interest in my own family.

One of my 2 nieces suffers from depression issues. This is a genetic issue and gallops in the Green family. Unfortunately, this kid was sufficiently disorganised and self-loathing that she did not take care of birth control issues. She did have an abortion and then when she found herself pregnant from a one time and inconclusive - ejaculation took place at the mouth of the vagina she claims - sexual experience she opted to keep the child. The father, a guy who according to my niece didn't have any fun from his one off sexual experience, found himself lumbered with a daughter. He was a guy who came from a traditional Italian family. He couldn't bring himself to tell any of them about the child. Financially speaking he has been paying for his premature ejaculation for more than 7 years now.

And then there was my cousin. He went down on one of those Club Med vacations, and briefly hooked up with a Latina who is living in Canada with her family. He figured that this was all a holiday fling until she contacted him in order to say that she was pregnant. His initial offer was to pay for her abortion. This was rejected. He then clumsily made a mess of his relationship with her and her family when he went to visit her family. But finally the guy figured that he was a fool. And this is when he went to see her and her family. He told them that he wanted to be part of it all. And so for a decade and a half now my cousin has been engaged in his son's life both in a financial and a hands-on way. The weird thing is that although the rest of our small family loves this kid we really do suspect that our cousin may have been sold a bill of genetic goods. We ain't talking, however. Love is love.

And of course while I am adamant, as I have always been, about this business of pregnancy and birth and child rearing being a burden which is inevitably hung around the woman's neck, I do admit that I believe that men do find themselves trapped by women.

I guess that is why I find this question pig-awful.

[j_war06 0]

My ex-fiance is trying to make this claim...that I tricked him....(now that he is with a new woman). HOWEVER he was with me at the Dr when she announced that I was fertile again! Which I can document. Men are not tricked, USE A CONDOM if your going to have sex, but if you dont want any responsibility for a child then DONT HAVE SEX! Simple...I begged him to use a condom, I begged to take my freakin BC! I begged him most of the time not to have sex with me (many times the act took place with tears in my eyes). So no I have no pity for the men who say they were tricked! I understand that it does happen, but I still say there are preventative measures to make sure there are no "mini-mes"

[BJean 16]

Drum roll please! Trumpets --- ta da! gadget and I agree on this issue. Men must take responsibility for their children. The circumstances of how the pregnancy happened shouldn't enter into the equation - except from the standpoint that it's his sperm that fertilized her egg.

Horror stories abound regarding women tricking men into getting them pregnant. (green, those are some doozies!) But until women learn how to grab a man's sperm without his knowledge, all men are responsible for their little swimmers and where they wind up. All men should be taught that there are tricky women out there and then behave accordingly.

Once again, no woman should be forced to have an abortion, whatever the circumstances, and no woman should be denied an abortion if she believes that it is necessary.

[green 6]

Well, as one who was always anxious to keep control over her own life in oh so many ways, I have always advised women to look after their birthcontrol needs and men to always wear a wellie on their willie. (I have also dished out fiscal advice in much the same spirit.)

[BJean 16]

green is a very smart (and experienced) cookie!

[DerickM 1]

I have always had a paranoia about girls 'telling' me they are on the bill or some other form of birth control but they are really not so I have always worn my rain coat.

I don't think I am going to know what it is like to not wear a raincoat until I am married and trying to conceive.

[kagoscuba 0]

Wearing a raincoat also helps ensure you have something to wear one on, when you get married. You don't need it dropping off somewhere.

[DerickM 1]

that also!!!

[green 6]

I have always had a paranoia about girls 'telling' me they are on the bill or some other form of birth control but they are really not so I have always worn my rain coat.

I don't think I am going to know what it is like to not wear a raincoat until I am married and trying to conceive.

Wise Derick, one of the many reasons why I like you. Well,.......one of the few; but I do I like your sense of humour, I like trade unionists, I like young men, and I like intelligent trouble makers. :heh::heh::heh: