who supports right to choose

[j_war06 0]

Im not just saying this because I am a prolifer, Im saying this because I have this HUGE place in my heart for humanity and the innocent. I really wish that my ex-roomie had not had an abortion, she already regrets it...we had an argument the ther day about why she wouldnt add me to MySpace...Turns out she doesnt want to have to look at pics of my baby and know about it because it makes her feel guilty...We finally came to a consensus about MySpace...but point is she ALREADY regrets her decision. I cant wait to have my baby...I wish I was more stable in life right now, but that isnt going to make me kill my child...If she would have come to me before her mind was set on the abortion, I would have set up a meeting between her and one of my friends that cant conceive and let her pick an adoptive family from that. I just couldnt live my life wondering if my child was the smartest kid in class, or the cheerleader/jock, or even the goth or nerd kid....I would want to know...I have a hard time living life with any regrets, I try not to regret ANYTHING, and I think that had I opted for the abortion just because pregnancy is inconvenient to me right now, I would be depressed my entire life.

And on the matter of credibility, if you say something in a thread this controversial, and your using information other than your opinion or personal experience you better back it up. And no they technically cant write ANYTHING that they want about people who once lived/are living or events that have taken place, because if its too far out there the family of that person or people in the event can sue the writer. Im not discrediting your intelligence by any means, I was merely making a suggestion so that your argument would have more impact.

P.S. If 10 crackheaded prostitutes came up to me asking me to take care of their children, I would find a place, a REAL home for those children, because that could be the next President, Oprah, Einstein, Bill Gates...So on....What if all the people that made a GREAT impact in America's history had been aborted before they were born? What would life be like?

[j_war06 0]

Now that I have a little more time to go back and review the posts from the day, I wanted to say CONGRATULATIONS to you, Jodie! Blessings to you and your precious cargo.

Thanks...I must admit, its kind of weird seeing a picture of my sonogram in an abortion debate lol! Im a happy lil momma 2 b, even if I have to do it on my own...At least I didnt take the convenient way out...Ive already had SO MUCH more joy in my life than before I was pregnant

[gadgetlady 4]

Plurality in an advanced democracy means that minorities are both heard and accomodated. If 54% of Americans are currently against abortion this means that these individuals do not have to engage in an abortion.

The problem is no one is polling the unborn. Since they obviously can't speak for themselves (and generally won't be able to cohesively form opinions about the issue for 8-15 years depending on intelligence -- assuming they survive those 8-15 years), many of us are choosing to speak for them.

medical personnel can refuse to aid and abet.

This is a legal hot button issue these days. There have been many cases where hospitals have tried to force medical personnel to participate in abortions against their will. Some states have enacted or attempted to enact laws to require that the facilities allow pro-lifers to opt out of such procedures. So I don't think anyone should glibly say they can opt out -- it has not always been that easy.

[gadgetlady 4]

So, I do believe that once a womans right to choose is taken away, it will be a slippery slope, to women can't wear pants, she can't work away from home more than 3 hours a day, and then the horrid burqa. :zip:

Do you really believe that? Because if you do, you're seriously misjudging the pro-life movement. I know these people, many of them the strongest leaders in the movement, and they have no desire to tell women they can't wear pants or work away from home. Their goal is to guarantee the right to life to all human beings and to help pregnant mothers through times of crisis. No one thinks dealing with an unplanned pregnancy is easy; we just don't think one of the solutions should be killing another human being.

[gadgetlady 4]

How do you know that all early feminists were pro-life? Where was this ever published? I know that several early feminists made their views known on this, but I know of no study that has been done so that you will be correct in stating that ALL early feminists were pro-life.

Can you name some who weren't? I can name a lot who were. Elizabeth Cady Stanton. Susan B. Anthony. Mary Wollstonecraft. Alice Paul. I could go on. Can you name one early feminist who was in favor of abortion?

Any luck finding any early feminists who were in favor of abortion?

[j_war06 0]

Do you really believe that? Because if you do, you're seriously misjudging the pro-life movement. I know these people, many of them the strongest leaders in the movement, and they have no desire to tell women they can't wear pants or work away from home. Their goal is to guarantee the right to life to all human beings and to help pregnant mothers through times of crisis. No one thinks dealing with an unplanned pregnancy is easy; we just don't think one of the solutions should be killing another human being.

This is exactly so...just because we believe that its immoral to kill children, doesnt mean that we are going to start adapting strict Muslim beliefs, its actually a quite irrelevant statement for arguments sake anyways. I dont believe that abortion is moral for any reason...but I still enjoy my blue jeans and sun dresses and cute short skirts, and I LOVE to wear makeup and go out and PARTY...Just because Im choosing to take responsibility for MY actions instead of "just getting rid of it" (as ive heard it put before), doesnt mean that I think that women shouldnt have rights................ALTHOUGH I think it would be GREAT if I didnt have to work at all lol! Now adays MOST men expect their woman to work in some way or another, I would love to sit at home all day and just make sure that the house is clean, supper is cooked, laundry is done, and the baby is taken care of lol! TRUST ME dealing with an unplanned pregnancy isnt easy by any means, but I just thank GOD that I can conceive, I was supposed to be infertile, so no matter how hard it is, I see it as a blessing

[gadgetlady 4]

Im not just saying this because I am a prolifer, Im saying this because I have this HUGE place in my heart for humanity and the innocent. I really wish that my ex-roomie had not had an abortion, she already regrets it...we had an argument the ther day about why she wouldnt add me to MySpace...Turns out she doesnt want to have to look at pics of my baby and know about it because it makes her feel guilty...We finally came to a consensus about MySpace...but point is she ALREADY regrets her decision.

Can you provide her with some resources to get some counseling? There are a lot of organizations that deal with post-abortion syndrome because it is so prevalent now -- and so often overlooked. Try these:

Victims of Choice

http://www.noparh.org/

Or you can find a good list of local resources here:

Silent No More Awareness Campaign > Resources for Help After Abortion

I cant wait to have my baby...I wish I was more stable in life right now, but that isnt going to make me kill my child...If she would have come to me before her mind was set on the abortion, I would have set up a meeting between her and one of my friends that cant conceive and let her pick an adoptive family from that.

My first personal experience with abortion was in college, when one of my best friends asked me to drive her to the abortion clinic. She knew I was very pro-life, so I have to assume this was a cry for help. Her son just turned 21. But I have had good friends choose abortion as well, one of them recently who regretted it the moment she did it and has suffered incredible emotional pain since then.

[j_war06 0]

I actually will tell her about that info...I dont think she ever thought of the REAL consequences...I think she thought

a.) my parents will kill me (her father raped her and her sister when they were little, but some how she has a sort of relationship with his wife now...idk that whole story...anyways hes not right in the head....and her Mom is an ultra-conservative)

b.) OH ####!!!!! I cant believe this is happening, I CANT tell who the real father is....

and

c.) I really cant do this right now and no one will help me and if I choose adoption, I dont thnk I can give up the child after carrying it and having it, and actually seeing it....

She didnt think about the depression and the reality of taking another life.

[gadgetlady 4]

I actually will tell her about that info...I dont think she ever thought of the REAL consequences...I think she thought

a.) my parents will kill me (her father raped her and her sister when they were little, but some how she has a sort of relationship with his wife now...idk that whole story...anyways hes not right in the head....and her Mom is an ultra-conservative)

b.) OH ####!!!!! I cant believe this is happening, I CANT tell who the real father is....

and

c.) I really cant do this right now and no one will help me and if I choose adoption, I dont thnk I can give up the child after carrying it and having it, and actually seeing it....

She didnt think about the depression and the reality of taking another life.

:cry

Please do encourage her as much as you can to get help. Healing and forgiveness is so, so important for long-term recovery. Without it, a lot of women end up in a spiral of bad decisions and bad relationships, alcoholism, depression, self-hatred, etc. If you need any more resources please ask or PM me and I can get you whatever you need.

[Wheetsin 714]

P.S. If 10 crackheaded prostitutes came up to me asking me to take care of their children, I would find a place, a REAL home for those children, because that could be the next President, Oprah, Einstein, Bill Gates...So on....What if all the people that made a GREAT impact in America's history had been aborted before they were born? What would life be like?

P.S. - in terms of debate, this is flawed logic. Be careful how you give tips to others about making their arguments more credible. Just as easily as an aborted baby/fetus/whatever could have been the next great thing, they also could have been the next great Stalin or Amin.

You seem very comfortable with keeping your baby, and that's GREAT. It really is! I'm certainly not going to change your mind on that - it's not something I would NOT want to do, nor is it anything that's my business. I think that the presence of a baby in your life will possibly give you many things that you need, and may do you more good than you will ever understand.

I do get the impression that you're not taking responsibility for your pregnancy. I think yesterday I read you stating you were "basically forced to get pregnant" (paraphrasing). Outside of really weird sci-fi movies, that just doesn't happen. Abortion seekers, too, do not want to take responsibility for their pregnancies, you're just seeking a different outcome (your choice) than they are (their choice). It's all about the choices. ANd the matter of business, as mentioned earlier.

I'm curious -- not that long ago, you were posting that you could barely afford a package of ramen, and had to go without meals. I think you also said that your family had no money to help you out. How will you provide for the baby? Have you started looking in to family services? If not, you might want to, there can be a lot of red tape (read: delay) to wade through, and no one would want the baby to suffer for it.

[gadgetlady 4]

Just as easily as an aborted baby/fetus/whatever could have been the next great thing, they also could have been the next great Stalin or Amin.

Where there is life, there is hope. We can certainly catch/punish/rehabilitate (or attempt to) any evil or criminal person, but we can't "un-kill" Einstein or Beethoven.

[kagoscuba 0]

You cannot kill what is not alive. A mass of cells, yet to breathe, see, hear, or think is not alive. Granted, there is a point when all those things in the womb do happen, and I would agree choice ends there. However, life does not begin at conception, only mitosis does.

[gadgetlady 4]

You cannot kill what is not alive. A mass of cells, yet to breathe, see, hear, or think is not alive. Granted, there is a point when all those things in the womb do happen, and I would agree choice ends there. However, life does not begin at conception, only mitosis does.

When, then, does "cell-division" end and life begin?

[kagoscuba 0]

When a fetus can be removed from the womb and it can live either on its own or with the help of medical staff, then it is alive. If society wanted to make some other earlier checkpoint, such as brain activity, then I could go for that too However, if going by the point of conception as a reference to potential life, then society might as well ban male masturbation, since potential life is being destroyed there as well.

[gadgetlady 4]

However, if going by the point of conception as a reference to potential life, then society might as well ban male masturbation, since potential life is being destroyed there as well.

No, because sperm, left on it's own, will die. An unborn baby will not. There is no such thing as potential life. Either it's life or it's not.