who supports right to choose

[j_war06 0]

I frankly believe, in my own political stance, that the innocent slaying of another being is morally injust...and these are not only Christian beliefs...most mainstream religons do not support murder of children (however so exist due to tradition). I personally believe that thinking that a fetus is not a life is ridiculous, because the potential for life exists. Your body has taken a step in forming another life, there are so many women (like my best friend Rae) who would love to have a child, and there are women throwing their children away because a baby inconveniences them. It seems rude and ungrateful for what life has given them. YET I see that orphanages FULL of poor children that no one has adopted, and Ive heard horror stories of the foster care system (my ex-fiance was a victim of the New York Orphanage/Foster Care program, and look how he turned out!) I think the main reason for this is that many families who would love to adopt simply cannot afford it...its a very expensive process as many of you know.

Im not sure EXACTLY what the solution is, but I dont believe that its the intentional slaying of innocent children. PERHAPS the government should focus a little more of the budget on the current orphanage/foster care programs already established, and a little less on abortion issues. HOWEVER I do believe that abortion research is important, Im not saying to do away with it AT ALL, just maybe there should be a budget change, and not only in that department TRUST ME!

[gadgetlady 4]

LINKS PLEASE

IT'S YOUR LINK! As I said, it's the Wikipedia article that YOU posted a link to!

[j_war06 0]

oh, for future reference (because I know you guys love to debate) Wikipedia is not a credible/reliable source AT ALL! Anyone can go research whatever topic and put it on Wikipedia and make it lean whatever way their stance is on the subject. IT IS VERY BIASED! I know it looks like a great place to find information, and it is for general use (like finding dates for past events, or getting an idea of something) BUT as for credibility it has NONE whatsoever.,

EXAMPLE: In my Constitutional Law class a couple of semesters ago 8 people split into two teams for a debate...4 prosecution/4 defending. They examined an old court case and the morality and how constitutional the judge's decision was and so forth. A member of the team that was on the defense used Wikipedia as a side source, and it caused them to completely lose the debate and SHE did not receive a very good grade because she used an unreliable source that gave inaccurate information (Wikipedia and other links to the information said that in real-life the case was won by the defendant, when in reality he lost). PRETTY BIG DEAL HUH?

[gadgetlady 4]

Yes, it said she was...Gadget, I have no problem admitting when someone is right...hence the fact I posted the whole quote and the link. I read the whole thing.

You have to look at what she said vs. what this person writing about her said.

Pulitzer prize winner Stacy Schiff has discussed Anthony's opposition to abortion, saying that "There is no question that she deplored the practice of abortion...", but "The bottom line is that we cannot possibly know what Anthony would make of today’s debate." Schiff continues: "In the 19th century, abortion often was life-threatening, contraception primitive, and a woman as little in control of her reproductive life as of her political one"

What this "Pulizter prize winner" is missing is that Susan B. Anthony called abortion infanticide and the practice of abortion a crime against the innocent unborn. Her opinion about abortion was not based on whether the procedure was life-threatening or contraception was primitive. It was based on the undeniable humanity of the unborn. While the medical procedure becomes more safe and contraception becomes less primitive, the humanity of the unborn doesn't change. Stacy Schiff is way off base on this one.

[gadgetlady 4]

oh, for future reference (because I know you guys love to debate) Wikipedia is not a credible/reliable source AT ALL! Anyone can go research whatever topic and put it on Wikipedia and make it lean whatever way their stance is on the subject. IT IS VERY BIASED! I know it looks like a great place to find information, and it is for general use (like finding dates for past events, or getting an idea of something) BUT as for credibility it has NONE whatsoever.

THANK YOU FOR POINTING THIS OUT, JODI. I have said the same thing many times over on this board and don't ever use Wikipedia as a source. The only reason I used it this time is because SSDiva used it to somehow indicate Elizabeth Cady Stanton was in favor of abortion, and it says in her own Wikipedia source that she was not.

Wikipedia and other links to the information said that in real-life the case was won by the defendant, when in reality he lost

I'm not at all surprised. In the few times I've used Wikipedia, I've found often blatant misinformation provided. It is often a re-write of history itself. Some people believe if they read it, it must be true. And some people believe if they can't find it on the internet, it must not be true.

[gadgetlady 4]

Here's a good link; you can do all sorts of research about early and current feminists here: Feminists for Life - Women Deserve Better

[j_war06 0]

Watch that site too though...its DEFINATELY more credible than a general information source such as Wikipedia....HOWEVER, it is probably run by an interest group and therefore will have a bias, you will have to get another source to go with it that is more mutual OR find a prolife site similar to it (as in it being Bias and run by an interest group).....BUT this is only if you want to state facts....now for arguing's sake its fine lol

[gadgetlady 4]

Watch that site too though...its DEFINATELY more credible than a general information source such as Wikipedia....HOWEVER, it is probably run by an interest group and therefore will have a bias, you will have to get another source to go with it that is more mutual OR find a prolife site similar to it (as in it being Bias and run by an interest group).....BUT this is only if you want to state facts....now for arguing's sake its fine lol

It's virtually impossible to find someone without a bias in the abortion debate. To effectively navigate the issue, one has to learn to distinguish between fact and opinion.

[SlimTarnishedDiva 1]

I know what wiki is about but a lot of times it is very informative.:bored

[j_war06 0]

I know what wiki is about but a lot of times it is very informative.:bored

It is if the information isnt used in a debate or paper or just discussion because you dont look credible when you use Wiki. I could seriously write a VERY convincing research paper about the pink flying pony's of the rainforest and add a few photoshopped pictures and put it on Wiki. You cant believe everything you read on there. It IS a great source find out about certain things, however I never take it too seriously without atleast 3-5 other credible sources. Ive had professors that even if you used Wiki as a side source (beyond whatever amount they required) that they would take off points because its so unreliable.

[SlimTarnishedDiva 1]

It is if the information isnt used in a debate or paper or just discussion because you dont look credible when you use Wiki. I could seriously write a VERY convincing research paper about the pink flying pony's of the rainforest and add a few photoshopped pictures and put it on Wiki. You cant believe everything you read on there. It IS a great source find out about certain things, however I never take it too seriously without atleast 3-5 other credible sources. Ive had professors that even if you used Wiki as a side source (beyond whatever amount they required) that they would take off points because its so unreliable.

That would work if I was to lazy and to dumb to do a follow-up read just for the knowledge and being informed. The fact is... Without any of these women being alive, scholars and biographers can write anything they want about them, who is around to dispute it. I use wiki for short stories and off beat poetry I write. I am voicing an opinion here about how I feel about another womans right to choose an abortion, and how none of us have a damn say in what she does. Whether I come off credible to someone who would like to invade someones body so they can sleep at night isn't an issue to me... I know I will never be one of those people. I will never have a need to have an abortion, but who am I to tell someone what to do with theirs. I just feel that if 10 women came to a few of you pro-lifer saying can one of you take our babies and care for them, and our prenatal care... I bet you won't put up.

[gadgetlady 4]

That would work if I was to lazy and to dumb to do a follow-up read just for the knowledge and being informed. The fact is... Without any of these women being alive, scholars and biographers can write anything they want about them, who is around to dispute it.

Are you saying we can't know anything about the opinions of historical figures? I disagree. We can know a lot about those who expressed their opinions in writing. And I think you agree -- otherwise, you wouldn't have quoted them in the first place!

I just feel that if 10 women came to a few of you pro-lifer saying can one of you take our babies and care for them, and our prenatal care... I bet you won't put up.

Try me. I will either take them or find someone who will. Any day of the week.

[gadgetlady 4]

Now let me tell you my story...Im 20 years old, Im 13 weeks pregnant, the father is a pathological schizophrenic symptom exhibiting alcoholic drug-addicted Jr. High Drop OUT LOSER! He all but forced me to get pregnant through his mental control over me. Im all alone now, he's gone, he found a girl that will let him do his drugs and drink his alcohol and wont make him keep a steady job and believes his lies, so he chose her instead of me and the baby. Needless to say, he's really screwed up in the head. But I am SOOOO happy and excited about having this baby! I cant wait to find out what it will be! Ive been excited from the beginning, and abortion NEVER crossed my mind as an option what-so-ever...that is until I called my ex-roomie, and she proceeds to tell me exactly how to "get rid of it" and how much it costs....she automatically assumed that just because I supported her decision and was there for her through her "thing" that I would choose the same option. Honestly, that was one of the hardest things Ive ever put up with in a sense, because she actually had a sonogram pic of the baby inside her, and she showed it to me after she had had the abortion, I almost cried, but I just remained silent for a few mins, I just couldnt get my mind of off the fact that she KILLED her child because it wasnt convenient for her to have one right now....Well then she shouldnt have had unprotected sex...same with me...I could have prevented getting pregnant had I really made the effort, its not entirely HIS fault, he just is a lot of it.

Let me also add in that I have been raped, and it was only about 5 months ago...Even as I went to get the pregnancy test/STD test at the clinic...I never thought of abortion. Its not that precious little life's fault that it was created when it wasnt the best of times for us. I would live my life in total regret if I had aborted my current pregnancy, every year I would have wondered what the child would have looked like...would it have my blond hair, its father's green/blue eyes, my fair skin? I just couldnt live like that, knowing I threw away another life just so I could live or more commonly live more comfortably.

Now that I have a little more time to go back and review the posts from the day, I wanted to say CONGRATULATIONS to you, Jodie! Blessings to you and your precious cargo.

[gadgetlady 4]

Incredible poll results, Gadgetlady! I am really surprised by the numbers, aren't you? Thank you for posting them!

No, actually I'm not all that surprised. I've been watching the polls trending to this over the past decades. Slowly, the public is becoming more and more pro-life.

Of course, there is also the issue of how the questions are worded. You can skew a lot in a poll by using different language. Both of these polls were very well put together.

What I've always found interesting is the polls that indicate a large percentage of people believe abortion is "murder" or "killing" (depending on the wording of the poll) and yet also believe it should be legal. How does anyone reconcile these two beliefs? Can you imagine, "I personally believe the killing of redheads is murder, but I also think everyone should have the right to make that choice"? I personally believe that the acceptance of such illogic is the result of the brainwashing of the abortion lobby.

[gadgetlady 4]

Now, please do believe me when I say that I have great respect and affection for you, Gadget

The feeling's mutual, green. I always appreciate your thoughtful and honest opinions. You are willing to tackle difficult issues and really look at both sides without a knee-jerk, unthinking response.