who supports right to choose

[green 6]

Indiogirl - It is between you and God and one of these days every aborted child will see their mother in heaven and that mom will have to answer alot of hard questions.

This comment assumes that there is a God, and that if there is a Divinity, He is the Christian one. Not everyone is on the same page on this question.

[marjon9 6]

This comment assumes that there is a God, and that if there is a Divinity, He is the Christian one. Not everyone is on the same page on this question.

That's why it's no fun having these debates with the fundamentalist types. There's no give and take. They believe that when they speak, it is essentially The Word Of God. Things like logic, open-mindedness, persuasion, sense of humor, personal growth, etc., are completely off the table. Offering any of those things in these debates is like flying a small plane into a granite cliff.

It's true that my mind is pretty strongly set on certain ideas as well. But at least it is possible for me to change my mind without having to feel like I am betraying God. For a fundamentalist to even consider having an open mind, it involves a total rejection of everything they have lived for, and probably what their parents lived for as well. This mindset turns these debates into a pretty useless exercise, and it causes these debates to compare disfavorably to a barrel of monkeys on the "fun" scale, if you see what I mean. :tired

[IndioGirl55 32]

This comment assumes that there is a God, and that if there is a Divinity, He is the Christian one. Not everyone is on the same page on this question.

I am Catholic - I am Pro-Choice - I don't assume that God is a christian God - I am a open minded religious person.

I beleive in Judisiam, Islam, Buddah, Jehovia Wittness, Baptist, etc....

I beleive in allowing people to choose there own form of worship.. I do impose my belief system on others. I believe we all believe in the same God (you can insert any word you want) but in different manners. And if your God is a higher power - or no God at all - that's up to you.

Your Choice ..... Pro-Choice... I am not God or anywhere close to it... So who am I to judge anyone...

[green 6]

I am Catholic - I am Pro-Choice - I don't assume that God is a christian God - I am a open minded religious person.

I beleive in Judisiam, Islam, Buddah, Jehovia Wittness, Baptist, etc....

I beleive in allowing people to choose there own form of worship.. I do impose my belief system on others. I believe we all believe in the same God (you can insert any word you want) but in different manners. And if your God is a higher power - or no God at all - that's up to you.

Your Choice ..... Pro-Choice... I am not God or anywhere close to it... So who am I to judge anyone...

Cool and respectful of others.

[green 6]

That's why it's no fun having these debates with the fundamentalist types. There's no give and take. They believe that when they speak, it is essentially The Word Of God. Things like logic, open-mindedness, persuasion, sense of humor, personal growth, etc., are completely off the table. Offering any of those things in these debates is like flying a small plane into a granite cliff.

It's true that my mind is pretty strongly set on certain ideas as well. But at least it is possible for me to change my mind without having to feel like I am betraying God. For a fundamentalist to even consider having an open mind, it involves a total rejection of everything they have lived for, and probably what their parents lived for as well. This mindset turns these debates into a pretty useless exercise, and it causes these debates to compare disfavorably to a barrel of monkeys on the "fun" scale, if you see what I mean. :tired

Yes, I agree. And it would be nice to see the "fun" put into fundamentalist.

[gadgetlady 4]

I am Catholic - I don't assume that God is a christian God - I am a open minded religious person.

I beleive in Judisiam, Islam, Buddah, Jehovia Wittness, Baptist, etc....

I beleive in allowing people to choose there own form of worship.. I do impose my belief system on others. I believe we all believe in the same God (you can insert any word you want) but in different manners. And if your God is a higher power - or no God at all - that's up to you.

Not judging, just commenting here. It sounds like you are more of a Universalist (many paths, one destiny) than a Catholic. The Catholic church, to my knowledge, doesn't teach anything other than John 14:6 (Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.).

Again, I'm not judging, I'm just commenting. I also believe everyone has the right to whatever faith, or lack of faith, they want.

[late 0]

BJEan - No I am not a southern baptist but i know several people who are and they do not beleive that they are the only ones going to heaven. And my statement was not judgemental. I was simply saying that one day we ALL will be held accountable for our unforgiven sins. Is abortion a worse sin than any I have committed? no it isn't. God sees all sin the same and He forgives all sin the same. I beleive that the only way to heaven is faith and belief in Jesus Christ and that He is the Son of God. Heaven is open to anyone willing to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

[marjon9 6]

BJEan - No I am not a southern baptist but i know several people who are and they do not beleive that they are the only ones going to heaven. And my statement was not judgemental. I was simply saying that one day we ALL will be held accountable for our unforgiven sins. Is abortion a worse sin than any I have committed? no it isn't. God sees all sin the same and He forgives all sin the same. I beleive that the only way to heaven is faith and belief in Jesus Christ and that He is the Son of God. Heaven is open to anyone willing to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Wow, I guess that means Mahatma Gandhi and the Dalai Lama are going to burn in Hell for eternity. Bummer.

[FuelMan 2]

To Green :

Thank you so much for taking my back. I could not have defended myself, or said it as eloquently as you did. The problem is not abortion, drug abuse, family or domestic abuse, morbid Obesity rape, alcohol abuse ................etc. It's not just one thing, the Gadget lady said she wanted to stop the slaughter, WELL.............. how many of these things have people dies from ??? And I mean the real deal, when they say something was child abuse or neglect, or any car wreck, or ______ fill in the blank, has drugs and or alcohol been behind it ?????? It's something like 90% of the people in jail are there for some form of crime where drug's (inclueding alcohol) where involved, either directly or indirectly. So I would say there is a social problem, BIG TIME. How can people feel safe and secure when they can afford health insurance, good housing, heat, whatever, they feel depressed and feel like giving up. When you have to make a choice between food or health insurance....... what do you think will win out ??? There are so many people in this country that can not afford to take care of them self's or there children. If the government does not care, why should the people. We should at least care about the people that vote them into office. But nooooo.......... they have to take care of the people that pony up the big bucks to there re-election campaign. That's how this country has always run, it runs on the ALMIGHTY BUCK (in other words that dirty word greed) !!!!!!! I said it before and I will say it again, you can't focus on just one issue, that's what the media want's us to do, rally around a single cause and forget the main problem. It's like........ someone going to the doctors with a digestion problem, the Dr. fixes the problem, and he keeps coming back with the same problem. Sooner or later the doctor has to ask the guy what he is doing, and the man finely tell the Dr. he is drinking lighter Fluid. So then the doctor tell the guy, Stop Drinking Lighter Fluid, and you problems will go away. We in this country keep fixing the digestion problem. I wondered where the doctors got the idea on how to work there office, they keep giving you pills till you finely run out of money or you are dead from all the pills. No One Care's, it's all about the money.

OK....... here you go. If you people that are focused on the abortion argument. If you wanted to make abortion illegal all you would have to do is have about a 10 billion $, and fund as many government elected people that you could with a promise of supporting them next term, as long as they out law abortion. You could have it out law-ed in just one year. OK, there you go, there is the answerer to your problem, or so you think. It will not change one blessed thing, the same people will be dyeing from drugs, smoking, sex disease, OVEREATING (that includes, heart attacks, diabetes, stroke, and a hundred other things coming from morbid obesity) , and as many people will get abortions as before. A lot of people don't seem to get it....... it's not the stomach ache, it's the drinking of the lighter fluid. I know many people will just want to keep fighting just for the sake of fighting, and will not want to get this, BUT...... I am glad there are some people on this sight (like Green) from other country's that can see that we in the US are totally NUTS. There are people all over the world who look at us and can only shake there head in complete bafflement, wondering what the heck are we thinking. Thank you again "GREEN" for you support and your thinking, keep a free mind don't sell out to the media or the government.

Butch S

[late 0]

Marjon9 - unfortunately, if they did not accept Jesus at some point in their life they are in hell.

[BJean 16]

Thank you, Butch. Another good post.

 

Sorry if you find my posts unworthy and too focused, but it is difficult to give in to people who are exactly what Mark described. Perhaps I'm too inflexible about the topic too, but I have seen what the country is like for women when something so basic as a woman's right to choose, being taken away from them. It was, in a word, horrible.

[gadgetlady 4]

I never said there was only one issue in the world, Butch. But you're right. If we all just hold hands and sing Kumbaya it'll make it all better. Unfortunately, in the real world, 1/2 of the people who go into an abortion clinic don't come out alive. And because I choose to speak up for that silent 1/2 doesn't make me a bad person or immune to (or worse yet, complicit in) the evils of the world. If you don't think making something illegal reduces the incidence of that act (doesn't eliminate but reduces), I don't know what you're smoking.

[joe7777 1]

I never said there was only one issue in the world, Butch. But you're right. If we all just hold hands and sing Kumbaya it'll make it all better. Unfortunately, in the real world, 1/2 of the people who go into an abortion clinic don't come out alive. And because I choose to speak up for that silent 1/2 doesn't make me a bad person or immune to (or worse yet, complicit in) the evils of the world. If you don't think making something illegal reduces the incidence of that act (doesn't eliminate but reduces), I don't know what you're smoking.

 

 

Ummm....is a foetus a person? (rhetorical) Lets not get into this bible quoting stuff, or religious stuff. Your arguments are cyclical. False logic is the groundworks of catholocism. The bible is true because it is the word of God. God exists and is the only god because it says so in the bible. Hmmm...Spot the faulty logic in that one, its like playing where's waldo and hes the only one on the page.

 

Then if you WANT to quote the bible, there is another topic where someone gave a quote IN the bible that someone is not a person or doesnt have a soul until they take a breath. (also that is the legal definition).

 

So there is the fact that the bible itself disagrees, then if you still think the bible is a literral book i suggest you read the infamous letter to Dr. Laura (if you have not already) Urban Legends Reference Pages: Politics (Letter to Dr. Laura)

 

Have a good laugh, i know i did: I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

 

Then if you say that it shouldn't be taken literally...then what do you base yourself on.

 

I am still not saying if i think i think it ok to have an abortion, i'm saying its ok to leave someone the CHOICE.

[gadgetlady 4]

Ummm....is a foetus a person? (rhetorical) Lets not get into this bible quoting stuff, or religious stuff. Your arguments are cyclical. False logic is the groundworks of catholocism.

 

First of all, I have NEVER quoted the Bible to justify my position on abortion. I do not believe abortion is a religious issue. I believe it is a human rights issue. Second of all, I'm not Catholic.

 

Then if you WANT to quote the bible, there is another topic where someone gave a quote IN the bible that someone is not a person or doesnt have a soul until they take a breath.

 

Not everyone believes human beings have souls. And personhood is not contingent on the existence of a soul.

 

then what do you base yourself on.

 

I base my position on abortion on science, on the fact that abortion stops a beating heart, on the fact that the unborn baby is a human being with separate DNA, a separate circulatory system, separate organs, two arms, two legs, a head, and a torso.

 

I am still not saying if i think i think it ok to have an abortion, i'm saying its ok to leave someone the CHOICE.

 

Our choices should be limited when they infringe on the choices of another person. Where's the baby's vote in all this?

[joe7777 1]

Where's the baby's vote in all this?

 

Sorry, they don't get one.

 

I think it's like asking, if you're dead do you think you care that you're dead. Uhhh, no i'm dead.