who supports right to choose

[anonemouse 1]

Unfortunately, abortion is an incredibly graphic thing. However, I must say that for my part, I did not begin the escalation of verbiage. I never said blood-soaked baby killers, or whatever it was. That was not me. That was Mark, trying to characterize what I said. And, in doing so, I think it left a vivid picture in peoples' minds that they associated with me. Insulting and laying guilt is not my goal; education is. That's why I post about the development of the baby in the womb, etc. If I wanted to insult and lay guilt, I would have done so to the women on this board who have freely admitted that they've had abortions. And I don't think I've done that.

You may not have said it, but you weren't disagreeing with Daffodil, and she definitely said it. To me, that signals that you agreed with her. And unfortunately, we're judged by the company we keep. That goes for all of us, I don't deny that. I've even spoken up on other threads and admitted that members of my side had gone too far. But you haven't, and to me, that says volumes.

[BJean 16]

There were a couple of other pro-lifers who were extremely graphic in their posts. You have been much more graphic than I thought was necessary, but that's your tactic. Whatever floats your boat. I'm with Mark on that part of the issue. I think that it is extremely disgusting to most people and doesn't make most people want to jump on your bandwagon. Of course I understand that you do not think you should sugar-coat anything, for anyone, because you equate it to the era of Hitler and slavery. Both dispicable in everyone's minds, so who wouldn't align with those analogies? One would have to be a Nazi, with racial bigotry in your heart not to agree with you, right?

Maybe it works on some people. Probably people who do not think it through and see it for what it is - another clever tactic in the right-to-lifer's well-stocked arsenal to shoot down any person or thought about a woman's right to choose whether go through with an ill-conceived pregnancy, without government interference.

[396power 2]

396: You question whether I'm new here? Are you new?

I wasn't suggesting that you were or were not bringing it up to your friends. I was addressing the issue that they had not decided to discuss it with you, their friend.

I am sure it was a loving thing for you to do to not discuss it with them because you knew you would not be able to be generous in your support of them. I'm not criticizing you for not talking with them about it, just observing that I find it sad that if they are good friends of yours, they didn't feel comfortable sharing something that was probably very important in their lives, with you.

It's back to the old respect thing we were discussing, really. You know not being able to respect others with differing opinions and beliefs.

This is somthing that would not be discussed with me. and I can't help it if they don't tell me , they did not tell hardly anyone. How is that my fault?

[396power 2]

In most peoples life there are only a few people that they feel confortable talking about everything. And I'm just not one of those for her. There is nothing wrong with that.

[BJean 16]

Gee dude, who said it was your fault? It is what it is. We are who we are. You are very happy with your belief on the subject, proud and vocal. When you are vocal about a belief that you have, it will obviously cause people to react to you in certain ways.

I only meant to say that I thought is was sad that if they are good friends, they didn't feel comfortable sharing a difficult time with you, since you're their friend.

You brought up the Bible and I was just observing that Jesus wouldn't condemn his friends for doing something that He believed was wrong. He would be supportive, try to understand, and show them love and acceptance. You're not Jesus, you're just like the rest of us, which is of course, fine. But you're the one who brought the Bible into the discussion and you're the one who chose to tell us about your friends. I didn't want to ignore one of your posts. It seemed very heartfelt.

[396power 2]

Gee dude, who said it was your fault? It is what it is. We are who we are. You are very happy with your belief on the subject, proud and vocal. When you are vocal about a belief that you have, it will obviously cause people to react to you in certain ways.

I only meant to say that I thought is was sad that if they are good friends, they didn't feel comfortable sharing a difficult time with you, since you're their friend.

You brought up the Bible and I was just observing that Jesus wouldn't condemn his friends for doing something that He believed was wrong. He would be supportive, try to understand, and show them love and acceptance. You're not Jesus, you're just like the rest of us, which is of course, fine. But you're the one who brought the Bible into the discussion and you're the one who chose to tell us about your friends. I didn't want to ignore one of your posts. It seemed very heartfelt.

It seemed heartfelt,but yet I'm not loving them or accepting them. what a croc (which is it) if I was not those things I would be telling her how I feel about it. But I have not done that because she would just feel worse. so tell me how I'm not bieng like Jesus in this case?

[BJean 16]

You know, as much as I would like to get to know you and share some kind of understanding, I am pretty sure we are just not on the same wave length. Each time we exchange posts, we just get farther apart. Well we can't say it was for lack of trying, can we.

You should be proud that your thread got so much attention and lasted so long.

But right now, I'd like to discuss a nice, soft, slightly warm French Double Cream Brie, with low-cal Water wafers.... mmmmmmm.

[anonemouse 1]

Or how about a nice, nutty parmesan reggiano shaved over some creamy risotto?

[BJean 16]

Wow, laurend, you win!! I have the most incredible risotto recipe with mushrooms and asparagus - and a nice Parmesan Reggiano in wide shavings over the top. It doesn't get much better than that, does it?

Have you ever had crispy penne Pasta? I had it at the Hollywood Athletic Club, in LA. The way it is cooked with a honest-to-goodness parmesan reggiano atop, causes it to be slightly crisp on top, but buttery soft and creamy on the inside. mmmmmmmmm.

[anonemouse 1]

Have you ever had crispy penne Pasta? I had it at the Hollywood Athletic Club, in LA. The way it is cooked with a honest-to-goodness parmesan reggiano atop, causes it to be slightly crisp on top, but buttery soft and creamy on the inside. mmmmmmmmm.

I haven't, but I have the BEST recipe for lasagna out there. It calls for 4 whole cups of mozzarella and at least a cup of ricotta (maybe more, if you want, but it gets mixed with oregano for some extra flavor) and a handful or two of parmesan. It's YUMMY.

[Carlene 12]

Hey, since what we're debating here has come down to feelings and semantics, is anyone willing to say they respect my opinion that I don't respect the pro-abortion opinion? :pound:

But will you still respect me in the morning?

[gadgetlady 4]

You brought up the Bible and I was just observing that Jesus wouldn't condemn his friends for doing something that He believed was wrong. He would be supportive, try to understand, and show them love and acceptance.

First of all, if you are referring to Jesus as "He" (with a capital "H") then I assume you consider Him to be God. If He is God, He doesn't just BELIEVE something is wrong. If He is God, if something is wrong to Him, it is wrong period. For those of you who are not Christians, I realize you will completely disagree with this opinion, but that's fine. I'm talking now as a Christian to a Christian.

Second of all, this brings us right back to the "go now and sin no more" thing I was talking about earlier. Remember what Jesus said to Peter in Matthew 16:23? "Get behind me, Satan?" That's not very touchy-feely now, is it? Yes, Jesus forgives. Yes, He understands. Yes, He loves and accepts. But remember, repentance is a key factor here. Jesus loved the sinner, but He hated the sin. There is no question about that. Jesus expected and expects repentance, acknowledging and turning away from the sin.

[gadgetlady 4]

You may not have said it, but you weren't disagreeing with Daffodil, and she definitely said it. To me, that signals that you agreed with her. And unfortunately, we're judged by the company we keep. That goes for all of us, I don't deny that. I've even spoken up on other threads and admitted that members of my side had gone too far. But you haven't, and to me, that says volumes.

Daffodil is an adult and she can speak for herself. She doesn't need my approval or disapproval. I think her posts were very strong and while I do not disagree with what she said from a factual standpoint, I wouldn't necessarily have worded some things the way she did. Do I agree that abortion is the deliberate killing of a baby? Of course I do -- you know that. Do I believe she has the right to be as vocal and graphic as she wants to be about the issue? Of course I do. Do I think it's effective with THIS particular group of people? No, not really -- but she still has a right to say it and it's her decision, not mine. If I had been standing on a sidewalk with her talking to someone about to go into an abortion clinic, I would definitely have taken her aside and told her that it was not a good approach in that circumstance. But in a debate forum, she has the right to say whatever she wants. And unless she's being factually inaccurate, as far as I'm concerned she can say what she wants.

I once debated a California assemblywoman on the issue of abortion. She spoke first, and talked about women's rights, etc. I spoke second and described the abortion procedure and talked about the development of the unborn baby. Not only did I win the debate, but many of the attendees came up to me afterwards and told me they had never known what really happened in an abortion, they had been on the fence about the issue, but now they had jumped squarely off the fence and wanted to volunteer with the Right to Life League. Sometimes telling the truth works.

[gadgetlady 4]

But will you still respect me in the morning?

I dunno, Carlene. Depends on what you did the night before :biggrin1:

[Serena 0]

I just discovered this thread and fee compelled to share my opinion;

Abortion is repugnant. Abortion is a horror. Abortion is a necessity and I have marched many times to keep it legal. I abhor women who have multiple abortions as a form of pregnancy prevention but they should have the legal right to do so.

"If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament"

-Gloria Steinem