who supports right to choose

[BJean 16]

[bjean QUOTE] My beliefs on a woman's right to choose whether or not to procreate will absolutely in no way infringe upon your beliefs.

It is my belief that every human life deserves protection from harm from other human beings. Your having an abortion infrings on my right to protect other humans from murder.

First, it isn't murder. Second, you do not have the right to try to make people do your bidding - i.e., carry a baby when they are unable to to it or do not want to do it. You cannot interject your wishes into a woman's womb. You have no right to do that and it is physically impossible for you to do it.

[BJean 16]

[bjean QUOTE] My beliefs on a woman's right to choose whether or not to procreate will absolutely in no way infringe upon your beliefs.

It is my belief that every human life deserves protection from harm from other human beings. Your having an abortion infrings on my right to protect other humans from murder.

You do not have the right to protect human embroys from anything. So there is no infringement involved.

[BJean 16]

[bjeanQUOTE] We don't have laws because of God. We just do not. We have them because we are a civilized society. And we try to make our laws that are fair to everyone as much as possible because that's what our Constitution and Bill of Rights promise. That's why our forefathers came here and why they wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights the way they did. Not to please God. They did it to make this a free country, where people do not have to live by any rules set up by one particular religious doctrine. They were intentinoally very open and explicit about separation of church and state. Why can't you understand that? Why do you continue to argue they wanted a nativity on the courthouse lawn?

God wrote his laws down for mankind to know right from wrong in the beginning, when he created us. If it were not for his laws, you would have no basis to understand what is right and what is wrong. We would all just do as our own heart desires and make laws unto ourselves by our own will. In the beginning, man followed God's laws. Then as time went on, they drifted a little bit away from following them and began to make the laws into whatever they felt was right at the time. Then more time went on and the laws veered farther away from what was right. And this pattern is still continuing today. But mankind is turning the other way now. What God deems wrong, man sees as perfectly right. What God deems right, man sees as wrong. Look at homosexuality. This at one time would not ever even be considered as a perfectly normal act. Now, if you don't accept it as 'normal' and perfectly fine, you are called homophobic or worse, told that not being accepting of gays is equal to being all for segregation. (which is untrue, BTW, cause being black is not sinful, therefore, the segregation of blacks was definitely wrong. And being gay is a sin, so the 2 things are not even close to being a comparison)

The abortion issue is not a religious issue, BTW. Just because most people who oppose it use the bible to back up their belief that the fetus is a human life, doesn't mean that it is a religious issue. It is an issue that has to do with murdering others that can't defend themselves. Science has shown that babies are alive. Where there is blood, there is life.

This is so stupid I can't even wade through it all. It goes from wrong to so freaking wrong it is unbelievable.

God didn't write anything - down or up. The Bible wasn't written when mankind developed into an upright creature. So there were no rules from the outset, nothing written, nothing spoken.

We are intelligent life. We make our own rules. We develop our own spirituality. We made the Bible. We may have had divine inspiration or it may have simply been people with enough intelligence that they were attempting to make sense of life and trying to ensure that people could learn to coexist in peace.

I'm not unfaithful. I am very faithful. But I'm not stupid and I'm not ignorant and I am not, unlike yourself, blinded by religious endoctrination and unable to think for myself.

Like this kind of discussion between us always winds up, I'm suggesting once again that you stop thinking in absolutes. Stop buying into rigid thinking and judgement of others. You are always going to be a basically unhappy person until you allow yourself to question and question some more. And actually be open to other possibilities. It will enhance your spirituality - not crush it. I do understand your fear. And that fear runs very deep. It will take some work but you can do it, I think. Although I am not positive that you can actually get past that deep-seated fear that you cling to.

You're so wrapped up in fundamentalist, extremist blind worship, you are missing one of the most important things that life has to offer. And you'll never know exactly what that is until you stop that chatter in your head and let the life blood flow freely without such stricture and negativity.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

If you allow the government to have control over a woman's uterus and the potential embryo it might hold, then what is to stop the government from mandating that they have control over the viable organs in a dead's person's body and extract them for organ donation to save another's life? Isn't this all about saving lives? Wouldn't that be pro-life? Wouldn't that be keeping another life from dying? It seems like it's a slippery slope from controlling a living uterus to controlling viable organs in a dead body.

I mean if a woman doesn't have a choice as to whether to continue the "life" in her uterus, then why should she have a choice as to whether her organs can be used to continue another life?

If the government can tell a woman what she can and can't do with her uterus when she's alive, what's to stop them from controlling what can be done to her organs when she's dead?

[pattygreen 5]

The laws are in your favor. So, do as you please to the poor, defenseless babies in the wombs of women all over the world. Keep your support for the murder of the least among us, the killing of babies. I can stand before God and rest assured that for a moment in time, I did try to tell others that abortion is as murder is. You all, OTOH, will have to answer to your Creator and explain why you felt the need to support such an evil doing as killing the unborn. You will have to explain why it had your vote. Not me. He may ask you if you were glad that your own mom didn't do to you what you support for other human lives, suck you out of her womb with a vacuum and cut your very life short as you whithered and groaned in agony. Then what will you say?

I'm done arguing the issue. Talking to the 3 of you is like talking to a wall. You all see righteousness as wicked and wickedness as righteous. Only until you see your maker will you understand your errors.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I'm done arguing the issue.

If only this were true.

[rodriguezequal 3]

lol...Also fetuses don't whither and groan in agony while aborted....egh just another prolife lie to make your arguement for you.

[BJean 16]

The laws are in your favor. So, do as you please to the poor, defenseless babies in the wombs of women all over the world. Keep your support for the murder of the least among us, the killing of babies. I can stand before God and rest assured that for a moment in time, I did try to tell others that abortion is as murder is. You all, OTOH, will have to answer to your Creator and explain why you felt the need to support such an evil doing as killing the unborn. You will have to explain why it had your vote. Not me. He may ask you if you were glad that your own mom didn't do to you what you support for other human lives, suck you out of her womb with a vacuum and cut your very life short as you whithered and groaned in agony. Then what will you say?

I'm done arguing the issue. Talking to the 3 of you is like talking to a wall. You all see righteousness as wicked and wickedness as righteous. Only until you see your maker will you understand your errors.

I'm glad you're done. You make no sense. You are totally against abortion because it is murder. Oh but except in a certain case, then you've decided there's an exception. And as for capitol punishment, you're all for THAT. Holey smokes! That's murder no matter what you want to call it and no matter how many ways you try to justify it.

And we're not talking just disposal of a blob of tissue - it's the actual murder, the real killing, of an honest-to-goodness living breathing human being. You're passing judgement on a person based sometimes on circumstancial and/or trumped up evidence and then you're murdering them. What kind of moral code or righteousness allows that? You do not even sound remorseful about your harsh commitment to capitol punishment when someone on death row has been been wrongly convicted and found to be innocent.

And your arguments fall flat when you try to defend them. And I've only touched the tip of the proverbial iceberg when it comes to your logic. You quote passages from the Bible when it suits you, when it suits your way of thinking. And then you totally ignore passages that make a case for a viewpoint that is quite the opposite of yours. Or you say that's not what God meant! And then you go on to tell us of some interpretation you've heard that you've decided is correct. And then you announce that you are worthy of presenting the correct interpretation to us on behalf of God.

You really have no clue how pompous and arrogant you are. You have convinced yourself that you're speaking for God and therefore correct in every word you say. In fact, you get it wrong most of the time. It will be refreshing to not read your assinine comments on this topic.

[beachcitygirl 5]

When I first saw this post I thought it was rediculous. I was not going to read it, but somehow I couldn't stop. I thought I would never post anything so personal but when I read a post that said "I find it so difficult to believe that any woman could even fathom carrying the product of a brutal rape" I got so angry! It went on to say more hurtful things about my baby. Yes I was raped and got pregnant. How dare you judge my innocent baby. It is not his fault, nor will he pay for something someone else did. This person went on to say that the child would have to be told. What are you nuts. My son is 28 years old, I would never dream of telling him that story. I have never judged any woman for having an abortion, but after reading this post, I feel judged because I did not. I forgot poster name but it was on the first page. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but please try to express it without being so hurtful to others.

[pattygreen 5]

When I first saw this post I thought it was rediculous. I was not going to read it, but somehow I couldn't stop. I thought I would never post anything so personal but when I read a post that said "I find it so difficult to believe that any woman could even fathom carrying the product of a brutal rape" I got so angry! It went on to say more hurtful things about my baby. Yes I was raped and got pregnant. How dare you judge my innocent baby. It is not his fault, nor will he pay for something someone else did. This person went on to say that the child would have to be told. What are you nuts. My son is 28 years old, I would never dream of telling him that story. I have never judged any woman for having an abortion, but after reading this post, I feel judged because I did not. I forgot poster name but it was on the first page. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but please try to express it without being so hurtful to others.

beachcity girl, I applaud you for your courage 28 years ago. Even though something so awful happened to you, you understood that your baby was an innocent product of it all. If only others could see the gift that God could give you, even through a rape. It was never God's intention for you to go through what you did. There is evil in this world all around us that can't be stopped, but there is also good in this world. And you made it shine. God bless you and your 'baby' son.

I am not arguing with those previously any longer. They just don't get that the 'blob of tissue' within a woman who is pregnant is a real, human life that should be protected, and not destroyed.

Bye.

[BJean 16]

I'm glad you vented. It's healthy and it is good that you posted your own views and experience. It's what helps us all understand how difficult this topic is for most women and how very personal it is as well. None of us can walk in another woman's shoes. What would be unthinkable for one of us is absolutely a necessity for another.

I admire you for the decision you made and the fact that you were able to not allow the rapist to have control over you beyond that heinous act of aggression he perpetrated on you. You must be a very strong and smart lady. Your son is a lucky young man.

And since you're intelligent I hope you can understand or at least respect the feelings of any woman who would be unable to cope with continuing an unwanted, unplanned pregnancy where a man forced his sperm into her body without her consent. The life-changing, life-challenging condition that a rape forces on many women, other than you and probably many others who feel as you do, surely could cause their destruction since any sane and normal life would be impossible for them. In other words, many women might rather die than continue such a pregnancy.

These are the reasons why the government should not be able to take away women's rights on this issue. We are all so very different. We are all entitled to our own beliefs and the control over our own bodies. Children are far too important to be considered a commodity controlled by the government. Women are as well.

Again, I commend you for your very brave and loving decision and I congratulate you for taking control of your body and your life and the life you gave your son! You have an amazing story. If your son ever did hear it I am sure he would only have love and admiration for you.

[BJean 16]

You're still addressing the three of us patty. I thought you were going to stop? Just have to have the last word? Oooh, I consider that a challenge.

A sperm and an egg that have met up are not a baby, no matter how much you insist that it is. It is a fertilized egg. It has a certain percentage of a chance of continued growth. The conditions must be right. And one of those conditions is that the woman/host be willing and able to nurture it to term. It IS life. It IS NOT a person. It is a POTENTIAL person. Otherwise, why wouldn't we be having funerals or at least some kind of rituals, for every spontaneous abortion that happens when nature realizes that it is not a viable pregnancy and automatically sheds the "blob of tissue?"

[Cleo's Mom 257]

When I first saw this post I thought it was rediculous. I was not going to read it, but somehow I couldn't stop. I thought I would never post anything so personal but when I read a post that said "I find it so difficult to believe that any woman could even fathom carrying the product of a brutal rape" I got so angry! It went on to say more hurtful things about my baby. Yes I was raped and got pregnant. How dare you judge my innocent baby. It is not his fault, nor will he pay for something someone else did. This person went on to say that the child would have to be told. What are you nuts. My son is 28 years old, I would never dream of telling him that story. I have never judged any woman for having an abortion, but after reading this post, I feel judged because I did not. I forgot poster name but it was on the first page. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but please try to express it without being so hurtful to others.

Beachcitygirl: You have your picture, city and state along with your post and the internet is everywhere and accessible to all. I only hope that no one recognizes you and betrays that personal confidence. Just a thought. You had every right to make the decision that you did to have and keep your baby. That is what choice is all about. Good luck to you.

[BJean 16]

Cleo's that was my first thought too. And you hit the nail on the head - personal choice is what this discussion is all about.

Think what it would be like if one day our country became so over populated that the government decided that women could only have one child, or even no children.

[rodriguezequal 3]

Well...I don't really know what to say. I know it is a rhetorical question, and I am very glad to see you say you would be compassionate to someone if they had an abortion in a rape situation. I too agree that lack of compassion is in order for those who abuse this procedure as a means of birth control. However, I find it so difficult to believe that any woman could even fathom carrying the product of a brutal rape. I know it has happened before, but it just blows my mind...that is why I am so thankful that we have legalized abortions. I would hate to know that someone I loved, who had been impregnated by a rape (or worse, incest), would have to carry the infant to term and be reminded on a daily basis for the REST of her life, of the brutality. Makes me shudder to think about it...makes me awfully sad to know that there have been those who have endured this...makes me wonder what happened to the children. If the woman opted to keep the child, wouldn't she at some point have to tell? Gosh...what a horrible thought.

That being said, your answer seems a little "Polly-Annaish" if you will, to me. Yes, in a perfect world, there should not be abortion. But in our world, how many times have unwanted pregnancies resulted in sheer tragedy and heartache? I worked at Texas Children's Hospital years ago and I saw my fair share of horrific abuse to children. No, I'm not saying that all unwanted or unplanned children or abused, but some are.

It is the individual that sanctifies the idea of "life" ...cancer cells are "living", but you don't see anyone trying to "save the cancer". Look, all I am trying to say is IMO, abortion SHOULD be legal. IMO, NO ONE, has a right to tell a woman that she HAS to carry a pregnancy to term...NO ONE...(and fyi, I have never been raped or had an abortion)

Peace Out!

T~:hippie:

I believe this posted was just trying to express how they couldn't imagine doing it...I don't think they are saying anything negative towards the women that do carry just that they couldn't imagine doing it. And yes it is amazing that you did, but not all women are in a place to do that. There is no way I could have carried mine...and I don't think it would have been right for someone to have forced me to carry that baby. I do not regret my abortion and I know I never will. In fact if anything it empowered me to be the woman and mother that I am today.