who supports right to choose

[Cleo's Mom 257]

When Pres. Obama wanted to eliminate the waste in Medicare to help fund the healthcare bill, the hypocritical republicans latched onto that and used it as a fear tactic for seniors - saying he was going to cut their medicare benefits.

[BJean 16]

kartman I totally agree with you. I decided that she didn't mean that men have no right to give input when they are directly involved. Even then, as you say, the choice is ultimately the woman's. But I have a feeling that she meant that men in the government shouldn't be making the decision for all women. At least, I hope that's what she meant.

[BJean 16]

Cleo's, that's why it is so frustrating for members of congress and the president to try to "reach across the aisle." The Republicans are having none of it, no matter what.

And the press has really been harsh and critical of the president. They say he hasn't been able to get his policies through congress and then they say he's trying too hard to work with the opposition. If he tried to ram his proposals through, they'd give him hell and the fact that he doesn't try to do that also causes them to give him hell.

I'm finally convinced (and it took me a while) that the opposition party is being racist in their refusal to work with the president on any front. And the press loves being able to criticize the president and congress and everyone else because they think it makes them look smart.

What a country.

[KartMan 58]

BJean,

I am fine with giving her the benefit of the doubt, and that is probably what she meant. Unfortunately, statements like that – particularly when so poorly thought out contribute to our legitimate arguments getting turned against us. People on the other side will demonize women (and the issue) over a statement like that and set the whole movement back.

Even if she did mean politicians as you say, the statement was bad for the movement in my opinion. There have been plenty of men (I count myself in that group) that have positively contributed to the Pro-choice agenda. No important issue (especially ones like civil rights, gay rights, and women’s rights) can be championed only by those in the oppressed group, they all need the help of outsiders.

[TN_girl21 1]

Thank you, BJean. I hope to be able to contribute as much as my parents have one day. I'm actually in the process of trying to figure out how to put together a "Spa Day" for teenage girls at our St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital. And I would love it if all wealthy people would give back like some do. Unfortunately, some wealthy (mostly Republicans, I know lol) do not want to help others.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Cleo's, that's why it is so frustrating for members of congress and the president to try to "reach across the aisle." The Republicans are having none of it, no matter what.

And the press has really been harsh and critical of the president. They say he hasn't been able to get his policies through congress and then they say he's trying too hard to work with the opposition. If he tried to ram his proposals through, they'd give him hell and the fact that he doesn't try to do that also causes them to give him hell.

I'm finally convinced (and it took me a while) that the opposition party is being racist in their refusal to work with the president on any front. And the press loves being able to criticize the president and congress and everyone else because they think it makes them look smart.

What a country.

Very true, BJean. The republicans like to say the democrats had the 60 votes in the Senate, but they didn't get that 58th vote until Franken was seated this summer. And you can't count Lieberman as a democrat. So in reality, the democrats had 58 democrats, one independent and one republican.

Then you have the ultra conservative democrats (DINOs), like Ben Nelson, who held their vote hostage. Now that there are "only" 57 democrats and 2 independents no one person's vote is that important, so they no longer can demand anything in exchange for their vote.

So, let the republicans block, obstruct and filibuster. And let America see it. The majority (58%) of americans want congress to continue to work toward a healthcare bill. Let them see the republicans filibuster it.

I don't know if it's racism, or just that Obama was so popular (he is still well liked) and he represented a total rejection of the bush policies, but I do know that their ONLY goal is to have Obama fail. They would interpret that as their success.

Let the republicans take back the house, senate, and white house. Then they will own the problems. Been there, done that (with brainless bush) and we are currently living in and with the disastrous results of those failed policies. Our country cannot take another 4 or 8 years of those policies. :rolleyes2:

[KartMan 58]

I can only watch so much of Rachel Maddow before she drives me totally crazy, but she was making some great points last night. Essentially what she is saying is that the Republicans are going to block everything so why even try to be bipartisan? I think the Left should just stop whining about the Right, we know who they are and what they are doing – deal with it. I gotta give the Republicans credit, they working as a team. If the Democrats were as organized, they would have had half of Obama’s agenda passed by now. Last year they had the majority in the House and a filibuster proof Senate and they let time and the momentum slip away. Now they have lost the Senate and may be on the verge of losing the House (and possibly the WH).

Would it have helped to have a few Republicans cross the aisle on Healthcare? Yes – but don’t let that be the excuse. The Democrats are to blame for losing Healthcare - period. They let the “death panel” lies go on, allowed the special interests to Water it down, and finally allowed it to wither and die. They had the votes and they fought amongst themselves and have nothing to show for it in the end. They are a perfect example of the adage “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good”.

It’s obvious to me that neither Obama, Pelosi, nor Reid have the strength or backbone to control their own party. They should have taken a page form LBJ or GW Bush and twisted some arms and busted some heads – too late now I’m afraid.

Edited February 11, 2010 by KartMan

[BJean 16]

Yep kartman, that's what I've been saying. Reagan was a puppet of the wealthy powerful men behind the Republican party but he was coached to work one-on-one with legislators in order to get the Republican agenda done. He staged breakfasts and senators were thrilled to get to have Breakfast with the president in the White House. They nearly always came away from it supporting whatever the president was wanting.

Being the cynic that I am, I have no doubt that promises were made in trade for their votes, but is actually how things have been done in Washington since the beginning of our country.

When a guy is elected president, he thinks he can go in and do the "right thing" for the country and since he had a voter's mandate, the legislators will have to go along. Yeah right. It doesn't happen that way. Jimmy Carter is an example as is Bill Clinton. George W didn't have to play the getting along - you cross my palm - I'll cross yours game, because he had all the votes he needed to get his war and everything else.

When I worked as a legislative aide in Virginia, I learned real quick how stuff got done. It was a real eye opener and quite depressing. But it is what it is and I don't know how it's ever going to change.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I can only watch so much of Rachel Maddow before she drives me totally crazy, but she was making some great points last night. Essentially what she is saying is that the Republicans are going to block everything so why even try to be bipartisan? I think the Left should just stop whining about the Right, we know who they are and what they are doing – deal with it. I gotta give the Republicans credit, they working as a team. If the Democrats were as organized, they would have had half of Obama’s agenda passed by now. Last year they had the majority in the House and a filibuster proof Senate and they let time and the momentum slip away. Now they have lost the Senate and may be on the verge of losing the House (and possibly the WH).

Would it have helped to have a few Republicans cross the aisle on Healthcare? Yes – but don’t let that be the excuse. The Democrats are to blame for losing Healthcare - period. They let the “death panel” lies go on, allowed the special interests to Water it down, and finally allowed it to wither and die. They had the votes and they fought amongst themselves and have nothing to show for it in the end. They are a perfect example of the adage “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good”.

It’s obvious to me that neither Obama, Pelosi, nor Reid have the strength or backbone to control their own party. They should have taken a page form LBJ or GW Bush and twisted some arms and busted some heads – too late now I’m afraid.

I actually like Rachel Maddow and think she is very factual in her reporting. She is the only one who uncovered the "Family" of DC legislators and their connection to Uganda and it's anti-gay legislation, which at one time proposed death to any homosexual.

I agree that the democrats in the senate, especially, are a huge disappointment. Reid is weak. But I blame Baucus for allowing the bill to go beyond August. It should have and could have been passed by then.

The democrats need to just shove the agenda along and to hell with what the republicans say. That's what bush and the republicans did. No looking back, no apologies.

Just start an unjust war with no way to pay for it. And if you criticize it, you are on the side of the terrorists.

Just pass 2 huge tax cuts for the rich, adding to the deficit. No criticism there, either.

Just pass a huge medicare drug plan with no bargaining for lower drug prices costing nearly a trillion dollars over ten years.

This is what democrats need to do. JUST DO IT is my new motto. JUST DO IT. You're probably going to lose your next election anyway, you might as well go down fighting.

The american people have apparently decided they like the republicans who block everything and do nothing, so let them have them. We know where that will lead the country.

[KartMan 58]

I actually like Rachel Maddow and think she is very factual in her reporting. She is the only one who uncovered the "Family" of DC legislators and their connection to Uganda and it's anti-gay legislation, which at one time proposed death to any homosexual.

I should clarify that I LOVE her intelligence, just don’t care for her style. I think the theatrics deter form the message and are likely to turn people off (it does me). But, man is she smart? I think she might be one of the smartest people on TV. Do you know that she is a Rhodes Scholar and has a PHD in PoliSci from Oxford? I like her way better than Keith Olbermann though because she brings both sides of the argument to her show. I don’t know why they agree to come on with her though, she almost always destroys them in open debate on almost any topic.

I agree that the democrats in the senate, especially, are a huge disappointment. Reid is weak. But I blame Baucus for allowing the bill to go beyond August. It should have and could have been passed by then.

This is just one problem. Because Reid is so weak, a DINO like Baucus was allowed to derail Healthcare. Who needs Republicans when we have Democrats to kill our agenda for us?

The democrats need to just shove the agenda along and to hell with what the republicans say. That's what bush and the republicans did. No looking back, no apologies.

Not only “no apologies”, just do it and watch history describe it for what it is, landmark legislation the likes of which we haven’t seen since FDR and LBJ put through. If they would just do the right thing, they may lose popularity in the short term, some may even lose office, but they are there to serve the people not to get reelected (that goes all the way up to the President0.

Just start an unjust war with no way to pay for it. And if you criticize it, you are on the side of the terrorists.

Just pass 2 huge tax cuts for the rich, adding to the deficit. No criticism there, either.

Just pass a huge medicare drug plan with no bargaining for lower drug prices costing nearly a trillion dollars over ten years.

This is what democrats need to do. JUST DO IT is my new motto. JUST DO IT. You're probably going to lose your next election anyway, you might as well go down fighting.

We should start the Nike party for 2012

The american people have apparently decided they like the republicans who block everything and do nothing, so let them have them. We know where that will lead the country.

...............

[BJean 16]

Bush also misrepresented the facts of our intelligence to the legislators and that's how he won such overwhelming support for giving him the power to take us into war.

The Democrats haven't had any power in such a long time that they've obviously still living in fear of the big bad Republicans. And to tell the truth, they know that the Republicans are capable of just about anything.

But that's no excuse. It's hard to believe that the public isn't just being fed a line by the Democratis with their manuverings with the health care reform bill. Because if they really really thought it was the answer to our major problems with our health care system, then they're nuts for not taking the bull by the horns and getting it done.

I'm afraid they're all bought an paid for by the insurance industry. When you learn a little about how much cash the lobbyists for insurance companies are passing out, it isn't a stretch to believe that the Dems are being controlled by it too. But they've promised and were elected on reforming the health care system so they needed to at least look like they were trying.

That sounds a bit like "it's a communist plot" I guess, but the longer I live the more I become jaded.

I do think that Rachael Maddow does a good job of giving both sides a venue to vent their spleens. She doesn't hold back if she disagrees, but she does allow the opposition plenty of time and space to air their opposing thoughts. And she doesn't make stuff up, which is what the right wing does.

On Fox, with most of their commentators, they talk over anyone who disagrees or they maniuplate the sound system. It's appalling.

Edited February 11, 2010 by BJean

[KartMan 58]

Fox is in a whole different league. I only dislike Maddow on style, she is spot on when it comes to substance. Fox is full of lies and misrepresentation, they are morally bankrupt as far as I am concerned. Having said that, I do try to watch them on occasion to see what lies they are currently spewing (barf bag in hand). Right now they are falling all over themselves trying to say that the current severe “weather” on the East Coast debunks the whole theory of “climate” change. Note that I emphasized “weather” and “climate”. They are very different terms and if Fox continues to equate them in their commentary, they only further to prove how ignorant they are.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/noaa-n/climate/climate_weather.html

[BJean 16]

They're in a whole different league intellectually with Maddow too.

And methinks their audience won't have a clue that there's any difference between climate and weather, they'll only be celebrating that the global warming theory is debunked at last.

Pat Robertson will say that this is God's way of giving Al Gore his come-uppance!

[rodriguezequal 3]

Wow...I missed a lot! After 10 days in the hospital on Magnesium and 3 more days on niphedipine in the hospital I gave birth to my daughter at 35 weeks via emergency c-section...missed you guys!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Wow...I missed a lot! After 10 days in the hospital on Magnesium and 3 more days on niphedipine in the hospital I gave birth to my daughter at 35 weeks via emergency c-section...missed you guys!

Congratulations on your baby girl!

It sounds like you had a rough time of it but I hope both you and your baby are doing well. Congratulations, again and take care and enjoy your new baby.