who supports right to choose

[Cleo's Mom 257]

When you allow safety nets, as you call them, it encourages dependency and discourages those who receive the help from helping themselves. they begin to feel a sense of entitlement even though they are not working or entitled to anythng. Liberals may not want a lifelong dependencay, but they support every agency out there that gives freely to anyone who meets the guidelines. This WILL encourage lifelong dependency and if the government continues to add more and more programs with giveaways, we will bankrupt ourselves. OOPS! Sorry, we are already there.:thumbup:

I think you would be very surprised to know that a lot of people who receive any type of government assistance are employed. You always portray them as lazy ass slackers who stay at home all day watching their big screen tv.

Of course you always have an example of misuse of public assistance and extrapolate that to everyone.

Your attitude is very cold-hearted no matter how you try to defend it with all your rhetoric. And you can quote the bible all you want but Jesus walked among the poor and there are far more examples of passages about helping the poor and least among us.

Life was different in those times, people lived in small villages with extended families. It could not have been written to predict a country this size with 350 million people. So, it didn't precisely say that government should help poor people but you seem to want other bible passages to become part of the way our government does business (anti-gay, anti-abortion) but not those passages that say about helping the poor. Then it's NOT about the government, it's about family. Just more hypocrisy.

[pattygreen 5]

Later they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Jesus to catch him in his words. 14They came to him and said, "Teacher, we know you are a man of integrity. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not? 15Should we pay or shouldn't we?" But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. "Why are you trying to trap me?" he asked. "Bring me a denarius and let me look at it." 16They brought the coin, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. 17Then Jesus said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him.Mark 12

This is a good scripture to teach that we need to be obedient to government and pay our taxes. It does not teach, however, that the government is always right in their governing. I am a true believer in paying my taxes, and always will do that. But, what the government does with the money is another story. Let me be clear, although I have said this before, but maybe you didn't read it, I am not anti-government. I am anti BIG government and ant-spending unless it is an 'absolute' need. We must ask a few questions every time we dole out a check for something. "Is this absolutely detrimental to our needs? Can we do without this? If we didn't purchase this material thing, would we cease to exist?" I am opposed to all the wasteful spending and programs that enforce dependancy of the people on the giver. I am opposed to the federal gov. purchasing a park in Florida for 2.4 million dollars because the kids there have no where to play, at a time when the unemployment rate is above 10% and our national debt is over the top of the roof. States should fund their own pet projects, and federal government should not give them the finances to do it. Why should I pay for a bridge in Kansas, when I live in CT? If kansas wants a bridge, they should collect the funds from their own residents there. I believe the gov. should be there to protect us and take care of our saftey.

I have no problem with paying taxes. My problem lies with where the tax money is wasted and abused.

[pattygreen 5]

I think you would be very surprised to know that a lot of people who receive any type of government assistance are employed. You always portray them as lazy ass slackers who stay at home all day watching their big screen tv.

Of course you always have an example of misuse of public assistance and extrapolate that to everyone.

Your attitude is very cold-hearted no matter how you try to defend it with all your rhetoric. And you can quote the bible all you want but Jesus walked among the poor and there are far more examples of passages about helping the poor and least among us.

Life was different in those times, people lived in small villages with extended families. It could not have been written to predict a country this size with 350 million people. So, it didn't precisely say that government should help poor people but you seem to want other bible passages to become part of the way our government does business (anti-gay, anti-abortion) but not those passages that say about helping the poor. Then it's NOT about the government, it's about family. Just more hypocrisy.

I believe that our government already does help the poor in many ways. We do not need to continue to add to what is already freely given to the people. Enough already. I am not advocating removing ALL welfare and aid to the poor. I am advocating ENOUGH!!! I want to see an end to many more programs being established. We already have enough. We can not afford the ones we have. Do you not see down the road at all? Money does not grow on trees. Although our government's solution to the money shortage is "just print some more." I can't understand why it is so hard for you to see that there needs to be a balance. Liberals love to spend money. Other peoples money. When people are stressed out over job losses and the economy is tanking, what don't you liberals get about slashing and cutting the spending to save us from drowning in our debt??!!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I believe that our government already does help the poor in many ways. We do not need to continue to add to what is already freely given to the people. Enough already. I am not advocating removing ALL welfare and aid to the poor. I am advocating ENOUGH!!! I want to see an end to many more programs being established. We already have enough. We can not afford the ones we have. Do you not see down the road at all? Money does not grow on trees. Although our government's solution to the money shortage is "just print some more." I can't understand why it is so hard for you to see that there needs to be a balance. Liberals love to spend money. Other peoples money. When people are stressed out over job losses and the economy is tanking, what don't you liberals get about slashing and cutting the spending to save us from drowning in our debt??!!

What huge government expansion of public assistance or welfare or any of the current programs are you talking about?

What new programs are being proposed?

Reining in the cost of healthcare (which is 1/6 of our economy) will help to REDUCE the deficit. That's a big part of what the healthcare bill was about. And the healthcare bill would reduce not add to the deficit. We've been over that. No need to rehash.

So all this panic and fear,etc.. is not realistic. We need to invest (spend) money now to get this economy back on track. A healthy economy helps reduce the deficit.

[LeighaMason 19]

I agree we should cut our spending, just not at the expense of poor people. There are lots of corporations who receive huge overpayment's for their services. I think we should start there.

[pattygreen 5]

I agree we should cut our spending, just not at the expense of poor people. There are lots of corporations who receive huge overpayment's for their services. I think we should start there.

I agree that there are many private corp. that overpay their employees, but what's that to you or anyone else? Why should it bother you that someone wants to pay their employee a large sum for the work they do? If they can afford to be generous, then why does it bother you? If the government is doing that with our money, then we have a right to compalin, but private businesses should be allowed to grow and prosper at their own will. This is called free enterprise and it's what makes this the greatest country to live in.

Matthew 20:1-16

"For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard. "About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. He told them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' So they went. "He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?'" 'Because no one has hired us,' they answered. "He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.' 8"When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.' "The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 'These men who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.' "But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?' "So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

I understand the spiritual teaching of this parable, but it can also apply to the idea that if a man agrees to work for a certain sum of money and is paid it, and you agree to work for a certain sum of money and is paid it, then isn't it what you agreed upon? We should not be envious of those who make alot of money and we feel they don't deserve it.

[pattygreen 5]

What huge government expansion of public assistance or welfare or any of the current programs are you talking about?

What new programs are being proposed?

Reining in the cost of healthcare (which is 1/6 of our economy) will help to REDUCE the deficit. That's a big part of what the healthcare bill was about. And the healthcare bill would reduce not add to the deficit. We've been over that. No need to rehash.

So all this panic and fear,etc.. is not realistic. We need to invest (spend) money now to get this economy back on track. A healthy economy helps reduce the deficit.

Did you listen to the state of the union adress from Obama and hear all about the spending he is planning? He gave some wonderful talks about all that his administration is going to do for America. But, "HOW IS HE GOING TO PAY FOR IT ALL???" Then he said he was going to put a spending freeze on government programs, BUT not till 2011. WHY wait???? STOP spending now! Do you know what his idea for a spending freeze is? less than 1/2 of 1 percent of the budget.:thumbup: WOW! Gee thanks, Obama.

[pattygreen 5]

Obama said this: Starting in 2011, we are prepared to freeze government spending for three years. Spending related to our national security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security will not be affected. But all other discretionary government programs will. Like any cash-strapped family, we will work within a budget to invest in what we need and sacrifice what we don't. And if I have to enforce this discipline by veto, I will.

"Like any cash strapped family"...... Well, I ask you, does a cash strapped family wait until next year to stop their spending? No, they do it NOW! Or they get deeper into debt and announce bankruptcy.

[pattygreen 5]

He also said this: We will continue to go through the budget, line by line, page by page, to eliminate programs that we can't afford and don't work.

Now, doesn't that have a familiar ring? He gave this promise as a candidate and has yet to stand by it. What makes him or you think that anyone will believe him now?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Did you listen to the state of the union adress from Obama and hear all about the spending he is planning? He gave some wonderful talks about all that his administration is going to do for America. But, "HOW IS HE GOING TO PAY FOR IT ALL???" Then he said he was going to put a spending freeze on government programs, BUT not till 2011. WHY wait???? STOP spending now! Do you know what his idea for a spending freeze is? less than 1/2 of 1 percent of the budget.:thumbup: WOW! Gee thanks, Obama.

Yes, I listened to the SOTU and thought it was great. I did not hear about any existing domestic programs being expanded. The only new things I heard were:

1) Financial reform of wall street: doesn't cost anything and will protect taxpayers

2) Repaid TARP money being given to small banks to loan to small businesses to create jobs. The GOP always harps on small businesses and private sector jobs.

3) Freezing of programs other than defense, veterans, social security. Of course had he not proposed a freeze, he would have been criticized for that. It's never enough for his critics. Geez. :smile2: And btw - he can't freeze current spending because that budget has already been passed by congress last year. The new budget goes from Oct. 1, 2010 until Sept. 30, 2011. Take a civics lesson, will you?

4) Investments in clean energy and green energy. Just like China is doing. But it doesn't take China 60 votes to get anything done. China just does it and is ahead of us.

Did anyone ask bush how he was going to pay for 2 wars and 2 tax cuts for the rich? NO. Were all these critics in a coma then? Of course not, but it was bush, not Obama and that was the difference. All this outrage is just so phoney.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

From Pattygreen: I agree that there are many private corp. that overpay their employees, but what's that to you or anyone else? Why should it bother you that someone wants to pay their employee a large sum for the work they do? If they can afford to be generous, then why does it bother you? If the government is doing that with our money, then we have a right to compalin, but private businesses should be allowed to grow and prosper at their own will. This is called free enterprise and it's what makes this the greatest country to live in.

Because the big banks of wall street who came to DC with their hat in their hands begging for a government (read: taxpayer) handout threatening complete collapse of the economy if they didn't get it - then turns around and pays those who made all the bad decisions big bonuses. Millions $$$ With our money.

What don't you get about the unfairness of that? That is OUR money they are gambling with, making bad decisions with and paying bonuses with.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

He also said this: We will continue to go through the budget, line by line, page by page, to eliminate programs that we can't afford and don't work.

Now, doesn't that have a familiar ring? He gave this promise as a candidate and has yet to stand by it. What makes him or you think that anyone will believe him now?

I just saw him talk about this the other day at one of his townhall meeting where he said in one program they eliminated $20 billion because of duplication of services. That was just one program. He did eliminate waste in the current budget. You mean he didn't personally notify you about it? Tsk, tsk.

[pattygreen 5]

He said this: That's why I urge the Senate to follow the House and pass a bill that will revitalize our community colleges, which are a career pathway to the children of so many working families.

To make college more affordable, this bill will finally end the unwarranted taxpayer subsidies that go to banks for student loans. Instead, let's take that money and give families a $10,000 tax credit for four years of college and increase Pell Grants. And let's tell another one million students that when they graduate, they will be required to pay only 10 percent of their income on student loans, and all of their debt will be forgiven after 20 years –- and forgiven after 10 years if they choose a career in public service, because in the United States of America, no one should go broke because they chose to go to college. [end quote]

So, he will 'forgive' your college debt. (if you get a job as a public servant.) What's that? A government job. This will only enforce MORE people to work for the government. We can't afford to pay for all the government employees and the outstanding benefits and pension plans we have right now, never mind paying for their college loans as well!!! did you klnow that the average government job receives 2-6X more than the average Joe job doing the same work? They will only have to pay 10% of their income on the loans the gov. gives them for college. Well, what if they aren't working? They don't have to pay it back? 10% of nothing is ...nothing. Then after 20 years, if it's not repaid? Oh well, no problem. Your loan is forgiven. But not to worry. You are dependant on the government to work for them. You are their slave now. I especially liked his last line.

"because in the United States of America, no one should go broke because they chose to go to college."

Please. How is going to college going to break you? ALL my kids have gone to the community college and NONE of them are broke. One went to trade school and has a loan that he easily repays at $94.00 a month. The other 2 are paying as they go along. It's only $3200. a year. (61./month) If you can't afford a state school, there are always other options. The problem lies with those who don't have the money to go to the IVY league school that they desire to attend and then are not willing to settle for a community college or trade school. After you are working in your trade, THEN you can afford to save some for a better education at the school of your choice. The problem with society is they want what they want and they want it NOW. Oh well, we have the government. No need to wait till you are better able to afford your schooling. No need to just go to a community college when the gov. will pay for Harvard or Yale. AND they will 'forgive' your debt after 10 years if you work for them.

[pattygreen 5]

From Pattygreen: I agree that there are many private corp. that overpay their employees, but what's that to you or anyone else? Why should it bother you that someone wants to pay their employee a large sum for the work they do? If they can afford to be generous, then why does it bother you? If the government is doing that with our money, then we have a right to compalin, but private businesses should be allowed to grow and prosper at their own will. This is called free enterprise and it's what makes this the greatest country to live in.

Because the big banks of wall street who came to DC with their hat in their hands begging for a government (read: taxpayer) handout threatening complete collapse of the economy if they didn't get it - then turns around and pays those who made all the bad decisions big bonuses. Millions $$$ With our money.

What don't you get about the unfairness of that? That is OUR money they are gambling with, making bad decisions with and paying bonuses with.

You only hear what you want to hear. I said if the government is supporting the corp. then we have room to complain. But if it's not, and it's private corp. doing that, then you need to MYOB. Read what I underlined again.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

You only hear what you want to hear. I said if the government is supporting the corp. then we have room to complain. But if it's not, and it's private corp. doing that, then you need to MYOB. Read what I underlined again.

But the government IS supporting ALL the corporations through tax breaks and incentives. And for the wall street banks that were bailed out - what don't you understand that that was OUR money (taxpayer money) in the banks that they gambled with? Our government insures our deposits in banks but only up to a certain amount. So corporations and these banks depend on government welfare which is OUR tax dollars.

My taxes and my deposits ARE my business. So AIG got billions in taxpayer subsidies (bailout) after making horrible business decisions with people's money and you are okay with them giving a $100 million dollar bonus to someone?