who supports right to choose

[Cleo's Mom 257]

It doesn't say in the bill that those making $250,000+ will be paying for it, either. How to pay the bill is not in the bill. That's a whole nother matter. Obama had told us that the rich would pay for it, but they are not the ONLY ones who would have paid for it. There simply just aren't enough rich people in this country to pay for the HC of the whole nation.

The financial part of the bill, scored by the CBO says it all. That's all the proof I need. You however just make wild accusations with no proof.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Again Patty, you put down Obama for everything(by the way, I have some "leaked info" for you, I heard Obama uses Charmin to wipe, you know the rest)I figured id tell you first so you can get on him about it, because im sure he isnt doing that right either! Im just wondering what the republican solution is. Don't you know? It's always been (1) tax cuts for the rich (crumbs for everyone else) and (2) war at any cost. Don't you know that the deficit bush caused by both of these things was GREAT according to republicans? He gets a total pass on both of them. Obama, however, in cleaning up bush's mess is attacked. Im guessing, like everything else, do nothing. Let the big business get all the tax breaks(why is it during this recession, which under bush was not called a recession, big companies are making record profits,ie exxon, healthcare monopolies etc. Didn't you watch the movie "Wall Street"? - greed is good. Republicans defend these obscene profits. Why, we even have posters on here who are worried about the poor health insurance industry who might go out of business if there was a public option. And this would be a bad thing, why? while the small businesses(the backbone of the American workforce) get screwed?Just like the middle class. Ive got news for you, if the middle class is allowed to fail, the rich will suffer alot more than if theyre taxed higher for healthcare, etc. Without the middle class(also the backbone of our economy)the rich will get poorer. And another thing, if your making over $250,000.00 a year "you aint middle class". So quit using this as a basis. Middle class is defined as $35,000.00-$110,000.00 a year for family of 4.(not you personally Patty, im not sure i heard you use this, im talking about reps. in general).But this also shows you how out of touch with reality the republicans are. You act like the taxes "to the rich" are going to make them broke! The higher amount they will pay is not going to affect them as compared to the effect of raising taxes on an already strapped middle class. You say dems,(majority of middle class) wait for someone else,ie gov. to handle their problems for them. The middle class didnt create the mess theyre suffering from, it was the government,(bush ideals, support big corp. and the . Under bush, rich definately got richer, poor got poorer.And yes the banking system which Obama is bailing out is at fault also. But again i dont hear alternatives or solutions from reps. I think maybe the Obama thought process on bailout and so called "temporary job creation" is to try to create jobs and stabilize the economy and create confidence, possibly creating a snowball effect where small businesses see economy stabilizing a little,in turn giving them the confidence to hire and expand. (not fact, just my opinion). Its not going to happen if reps. like hannity spew negativity, i believe actual hatred for obama and his policies. I do remember bush giving People money(i believe it was$600,00 per working adult, dont quote me on it)to try to stimulate the economy.Most people used it to pay debt. created by bush admin. ideals.The plan backfired and i never heard hannity etc. talk about failed"bailout attempt",how much money did that cost our economy, again another failed rep. idea and he gave money twice, so 2 failed attempts.I dont hear republicans saying anything negative about bush policies on iraq war. Yes im going back to blaming bush. But the reality is if the country was not involved in iraq, we wouldnt be in this mess. You can say what you want but spending billions of dollars a day for 7-8 years, not to mention between 4-5000 precious, priceless lives is taking its toll. that money could have been used elsewhere, actually we would not be in jeopardy of losing economic status to china because if we werent at war we probably wouldnt be in a recession and would have billions to spend however we saw fit. You put obama down for bailout(basically mortgaging our future), if you where in jeopardy,god forbid, of losing your house, you would probably try to get a loan of some sort to save your house as a last resort.Bailout!

The hypocrisy of republicans is truly staggering. While they show up at ribbon cuttings for projects supported by the stimulus money they voted against and take full advantage of every government program or perk, they then demonize the government as the problem at the same time they say "but elect me to a position in it". :confused:

[loserbob 11]

Patty, Im talking to you specifically now. Why dont you give me your ideas, specific ideas as an alternative to Obamas stimulus. You keep saying ,hes taking money earmarked for wallstreet and diverting it to "gov" jobs. First of all how do you know they are all gov. jobs? Is it because Rush said that? Second of all, are you saying its not right to take money earmarked for wallstreet to try to create jobs? If so, werent reps. the ones against bailing out wallstreet(through stimulus)? So are you flip-flopping or what? If your against taking earmarked money and diverting it to other areas ie potential job growth then that means you want to keep it for helping wallstreet which you guys where against. whats it going to be? Here is the answer i really would like you to be specific about, What has the Bush admin. done in 8 years that has helped you and how has it helped(unless you are rich, then ill understand without comment)?If you listen to Rush, Hannity, Beck, they are rich, they dont have or understand the problems of middle class. Yes, maybe at one time they where mid class but not during this recession. They dont have to worry about healthcare costs, taking money from one bill and using it to pay another just to get by. hell they dont even live paycheck to paycheck(alot of mid class would be happy to just live paycheck to paycheck in this environment) my point being dont go with ideas of certain party just because theyre the loudest. You people listen to hannity etc., why would people like this have any interest in helping less fortunate, mid class. Im not saying Obama is in touch with reality when it comes to mid,lower class either, not by long shot. He was voted in as president, mostly by mid class who are majority in hopes of changing the situation. I swear on my life, if i thought Mcain would help these issues better i would have voted for him. Im being honest when i say i dont vote by party i vote for who supports my best interest. If i dont see any improvement by 2012 i can assure you Obama wont get my vote but im willing to give the man time to work his way out of this. Im not being funny here but i made less money in 90s(Clinton)but lived alot less stressful life. Granted circumstances changed ie more responsability, but when Clinton left office there was no deficit. Bush came in, and when he left there was skyrocketing deficit(you cant deny, even though you will bush created 95% of deficit) and thats being generous. I would seriously like to know what you like so much about what bush did for, to this country. I honestly cant tell you one thing he did and i did vote for him 2nd time.(im not being "sour grapes here" i m sure there are postive things he did but nothing stands out to me. I dont mean security because 9-11 was on his watch but i dont blame him solely, i mostly blame intelligence agencies not coordinating,Fbi,Cia etc. The pres. only knows what his intell. agencies tell him. Off topic, on the radio the other day (Rush, i dont agree with him at all but he is very entertaining)a man called in and said he used to work for toyota but doesnt anymore, He claimed there was no problem with toyota. Rush said "but wait a minute, there is a recall" the guy responded with " This is obama trying to help American car companies, toyota is recalling because they hold high standards and want to appease obama" He said Obama is putting pressure on toyota,it is only a few cars with problems. His reasonong for this belief was because GM and Ford already have adds out about discounts if you trade in your toyota. Crazy lunatic conspiracy theory believing idiot. This is what dems. are up against, i see another 4 after this 4!

(not coordinating

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Loserbob: I put out this question quite awhile ago:

In the last 80 years what major program, civil, social, jobs, anything have the republicans put forward that helped the middle class?

I'm still waiting for an answer.

[loserbob 11]

I was listening to Beck today. He was talking about some big event coming up "you wont want to miss". He started talking about how he was paying for any costs the show wouldnt cover. He had to tell the audience the cost was expected to be at or over 1 million dollars. Then he asked for donations "even as small as $5.00. (Get off your ass and earn the money yourself, quit looking for handouts you lazy, no-good democrat,oh, wait hes republican). It was funny how he had to let everyone know he was covering cost overages himself because hes a big hearted "Great American", to steel a line from hannity! Hes a big#%$^ narcisistic idiot like the rest of the major radio hosts. Of course hes paying for it, im sure hes making millions from it!!!!

[loserbob 11]

Loserbob: I put out this question quite awhile ago:

In the last 80 years what major program, civil, social, jobs, anything have the republicans put forward that helped the middle class?

I'm still waiting for an answer.

Cleos mom, they provided thousands of jobs, The military, There good at starting wars and letting dems. cleanup the mess ie Bush sr. Desert Storm,Clinton cleaned that up, Bush 2, Iraqi Freedom, ya right,Obama has to clean that up. I heard a cia operative interview(x-cia)on the Chris Moore show(KDKA). He said Blackwater security is the military wing of the republican extremists.(Its no longer Blackwater, and i heard this same info in the past). So that would explain why they and Haliburton where the first companies in Iraq. Its a shame, i voted Bush because we where at war at the time(his plan worked well, he got votes because we where in the middle of war, again politics only)i thought he was sincere in his reasoning for war which was "weapons of mass destr." at the time this was the only reason. And now looking back after having time to take it all in, an its alot to absorb, It was mostly monetary reasons. Now i know reps. are going to disagree and give the usual response of "he had the same intell. we all had at the time. My response is, I didnt have the authority to start the war so the info i heard about really didnt matter. The other countries who had same info wherent so quick to go, there was alot of convincing ie hardballing tactics im sure to get others to follow. which would explain why the coalition we had didnt come close to the coalition for Desert Storm. And Colonel Powell, a standup guy had to do alot of convincing to U.N. and then resigned or retired i cant remember.

[loserbob 11]

Cleos mom, they provided thousands of jobs, The military, There good at starting wars and letting dems. cleanup the mess ie Bush sr. Desert Storm,Clinton cleaned that up, Bush 2, Iraqi Freedom, ya right,Obama has to clean that up. I heard a cia operative interview(x-cia)on the Chris Moore show(KDKA). He said Blackwater security is the military wing of the republican extremists.(Its no longer Blackwater, and i heard this same info in the past). So that would explain why they and Haliburton where the first companies in Iraq. Its a shame, i voted Bush because we where at war at the time(his plan worked well, he got votes because we where in the middle of war, again politics only)i thought he was sincere in his reasoning for war which was "weapons of mass destr." at the time this was the only reason. And now looking back after having time to take it all in, and its alot to absorb, It was mostly monetary reasons. Now i know reps. are going to disagree and give the usual response of "he had the same intell. we all had at the time. My response is, I didnt have the authority to start the war so the info i heard about really didnt matter. The other countries who had same info werent so quick to go, there was alot of convincing ie hardballing tactics im sure to get others to follow. which would explain why the coalition we had didnt come close to the coalition for Desert Storm. And Colonel Powell, a standup guy had to do alot of convincing to U.N. and then resigned or retired i cant remember.

And i forgot, he went from dem to ind who supported reps in past , and supported obama for president. he was ridiculed because he used alot of info from the intell. so basically they took a standup guy, made him the scapegoat, a well recognized, respected military officer and "fed him to the wolves". I just read his biography to make sure the info was correct.

[pattygreen 5]

Patty, Im talking to you specifically now. Why dont you give me your ideas, specific ideas as an alternative to Obamas stimulus. You keep saying ,hes taking money earmarked for wallstreet and diverting it to "gov" jobs. First of all how do you know they are all gov. jobs?

Well, because they're not private sector jobs. Any job that is paid for by the government is a government job. It's not Joe Shmoe handing them their paycheck at the end of the week, it's coming from government funds.

Is it because Rush said that?

I wouldn't know. I have only heard Rush speak once in my life time and it was on a news interview on TV.

Second of all, are you saying its not right to take money earmarked for wallstreet to try to create jobs?

I don't care where the gov. gets the money. It shouldn't be spent on anything except reducung the deficit. In my home, when we are struggling finacially, the last thing we do is spend some more!!!!

If so, werent reps. the ones against bailing out wallstreet(through stimulus)? So are you flip-flopping or what? If your against taking earmarked money and diverting it to other areas ie potential job growth then that means you want to keep it for helping wallstreet which you guys where against. whats it going to be? Here is the answer i really would like you to be specific about, What has the Bush admin. done in 8 years that has helped you and how has it helped(unless you are rich, then ill understand without comment)?

I don't know and I don't care. I only recently started getting involved in politics at the end of 2008 or so.

If you listen to Rush, Hannity, Beck, they are rich, they dont have or understand the problems of middle class. Yes, maybe at one time they where mid class but not during this recession. They dont have to worry about healthcare costs, taking money from one bill and using it to pay another just to get by.

It should not matter how much money someone makes to determine what should matter to them. Whether rich, middle, or poor, everyone has the same opportunity to persue life, liberty,and happiness. Everyone starts from somewhere and works thier way up. It is no ones fault but their own if they don't become successful or meet their own expectations in life. people need to get educated and sacrifice something in life in order to succeed. The potential for opportunity is there for all to grab hold of. It all depends on how determined one becomes, or how willing they are to work to accomplish their goals. I saved every dime I found and earned and scrimped on luxuries and wants and desires in order to save for my classes to become certified as an aide. Then I progressed from there, saving ALL my extra money and putting it aside for a home. It was hard work. My husband held down 2 full time jobs plus an overnight guard job and gave up many precious days, which turned into 6 months, spending time with our young son so he could get up the $7000. we needed for a down payment back in 1983. People today would not think of doing that to get anything in life. They just want it handed to them.

hell they dont even live paycheck to paycheck(alot of mid class would be happy to just live paycheck to paycheck in this environment) my point being dont go with ideas of certain party just because theyre the loudest. You people listen to hannity etc., I don't like Hannity and I don't listen to him. why would people like this have any interest in helping less fortunate, mid class. Im not saying Obama is in touch with reality when it comes to mid,lower class either, not by long shot. He was voted in as president, mostly by mid class who are majority in hopes of changing the situation. I swear on my life, if i thought Mcain would help these issues better i would have voted for him. Im being honest when i say i dont vote by party i vote for who supports my best interest. Well, I vote for the lesser of the 2 evils, whoever that may be.If i dont see any improvement by 2012 i can assure you Obama wont get my vote but im willing to give the man time to work his way out of this. Im not being funny here but i made less money in 90s(Clinton)but lived alot less stressful life. Granted circumstances changed ie more responsability, but when Clinton left office there was no deficit. Bush came in, and when he left there was skyrocketing deficit(you cant deny, even though you will bush created 95% of deficit) and thats being generous. I would seriously like to know what you like so much about what bush did for, to this country.

Most here think that I liked Bush because he was a Christian. The fact is, I didn't know enough about him to have an opinion then, and I still don't know enough about him now. I concentrate on Obama because he is the one in charge NOW!

I honestly cant tell you one thing he did and i did vote for him 2nd time.(im not being "sour grapes here" i m sure there are postive things he did but nothing stands out to me. I dont mean security because 9-11 was on his watch but i dont blame him solely, i mostly blame intelligence agencies not coordinating,Fbi,Cia etc. The pres. only knows what his intell. agencies tell him. Off topic, on the radio the other day (Rush, i dont agree with him at all but he is very entertaining)a man called in and said he used to work for toyota but doesnt anymore, He claimed there was no problem with toyota. Rush said "but wait a minute, there is a recall" the guy responded with " This is obama trying to help American car companies, toyota is recalling because they hold high standards and want to appease obama" He said Obama is putting pressure on toyota,it is only a few cars with problems. His reasonong for this belief was because GM and Ford already have adds out about discounts if you trade in your toyota. Crazy lunatic conspiracy theory believing idiot. This is what dems. are up against, i see another 4 after this 4!

(not coordinating

...............................................

[pattygreen 5]

This is an abortion thread, so I'm back on that topic. A superbowl ad featuring Tim Tebow has driven the pro-abortion left into panic mode. Abortion rights advocates and those who earn their living in the clinics fear this type of commenatry for the same reason they fear legislation in some states that require abortion doctors to show would-be patients sonograms of their unborn babies: Putting a human face on a "fetus" is pure poison to the abortion industry!

[loserbob 11]

This is an abortion thread, so I'm back on that topic. A superbowl ad featuring Tim Tebow has driven the pro-abortion left into panic mode. Abortion rights advocates and those who earn their living in the clinics fear this type of commenatry for the same reason they fear legislation in some states that require abortion doctors to show would-be patients sonograms of their unborn babies: Putting a human face on a "fetus" is pure poison to the abortion industry!

Patty i wasnt trying to be smart with you, i just sincerely would like someone who is rep. to give me an honest answer as to how bush helped you personally in his 8 years. Im not trying to piss you off. Ive read other posts of yours on other topics, and politics and even though i seem to disagree with you alot, i also agree with some points and i do respect yours and everyones opinions. But from reading your posts i can see you are a good, caring person with differing opinions from mine which is fine, thats why we live in the greatest country in the world. I havent been interested in politics all that long either, around Bushs election in 04. I voted for him and i believe i was at a vulnerable age and or time in my life because i lived by what hannity and sometimes Beck said. I dont think Beck was all that popular then. I listened to them religiously though. Actually i just started listening to Rush but like i said before, i dont agree with him at all but he is very entertaining. But yah your right this is an abortion thread, i wondered why everyone was going off topic when i first posted. I can see now, its hard not to because certain topics end up getting deeper into other areas, its so easy to get off topic. Like i said, im not picking on you, i respect and appreciate your involvement in your community, and with children, we need more like you.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Since we're back to the abortion topic:

Scott Roeder who killed the doctor who performed legal abortions was found guilty and given life. The prosecution wants it to be life without parole for 50 years. It only took the jury 37 minutes to decide his guilt. This sends a message to all others anti-abortionists who are thinking of doing the same thing that they will be found guilty and punished.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

This is an abortion thread, so I'm back on that topic. A superbowl ad featuring Tim Tebow has driven the pro-abortion left into panic mode. Abortion rights advocates and those who earn their living in the clinics fear this type of commenatry for the same reason they fear legislation in some states that require abortion doctors to show would-be patients sonograms of their unborn babies: Putting a human face on a "fetus" is pure poison to the abortion industry!

You forgot to mention your source:

 

Edited February 2, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[pattygreen 5]

Patty i wasnt trying to be smart with you, i just sincerely would like someone who is rep. to give me an honest answer as to how bush helped you personally in his 8 years. Im not trying to piss you off. Ive read other posts of yours on other topics, and politics and even though i seem to disagree with you alot, i also agree with some points and i do respect yours and everyones opinions. But from reading your posts i can see you are a good, caring person with differing opinions from mine which is fine, thats why we live in the greatest country in the world. I havent been interested in politics all that long either, around Bushs election in 04. I voted for him and i believe i was at a vulnerable age and or time in my life because i lived by what hannity and sometimes Beck said. I dont think Beck was all that popular then. I listened to them religiously though. Actually i just started listening to Rush but like i said before, i dont agree with him at all but he is very entertaining. But yah your right this is an abortion thread, i wondered why everyone was going off topic when i first posted. I can see now, its hard not to because certain topics end up getting deeper into other areas, its so easy to get off topic. Like i said, im not picking on you, i respect and appreciate your involvement in your community, and with children, we need more like you.

Thankyou for your kindness towards me. I apppreciate it because I am usually the lone ranger on many issues, and not respected because I differ in my opinions. I didn't get angry with you at all for anything you posted. I simply had something that I wanted to post that was an abortion issue, so I changed the subject by putting in that reminder. Of course we can vere off onto any topic we want to. I don't have any qualms about that at all. We all seem to talk on many different threads together, so it is understandable that these different topics intertwine, and I'm okay with it.

As for Bush helping me, I can't say that the federal government helps me much. Maybe the break in my taxes for my children brought down my annual income that was to be taxed, but I think we've always had that, and we had 7 of our 10 children to claim until they became adults. My husband and I do very well financially. I thank God for our blessings. So, I don't know how Bush has helped me personally. I can see how He added to our national debt. And I can see how Obama is doing more of the same, even worse than Bush did.

I want you to know that I respect your differing views as well.

I listen to Glenn Beck alot. I agree with him most of the time, and that is why I continue to listen to him, as well as most of America. He may be a little flighty or robust in his delivery, but it is still MY opinion that he brings forth, so I like him. You'll notice that MSNBC's ratings have plummeted and it is because of their far, far, left liberal views on controversial issues. I am a registered republican, but I am going to change to an independent voter. The only thing is voting in the primaries. As an independent, I'm not sure if you can vote for those running republican or democratic. Do you know?

[pattygreen 5]

You forgot to mention your source:

 

That's my local paper, and I read it almost every day. They have great letters to the editor and opinion pages.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

That's my local paper, and I read it almost every day. They have great letters to the editor and opinion pages.

from Wikipedia:

The Republican-American has a conservative editorial stance. It has accused Senator Chris Dodd of being "chief apologist for the communist tyrants,"[3] Senate candidate Ned Lamont of being a Stalinist,[4] and claimed "Marxists-Socialists" control the Democratic Party.[5]

The newspaper trade publication Editor & Publisher criticized the Republican-American's editorial page for its "McCarthyism" and "red-baiting", and for an August 2005 editorial, "Is New Orleans Worth Reclaiming?" which called for the abandonment of New Orleans post-Katrina.[6]

The New Orleans Times-Picayune criticized the Republican-American in an editorial titled "Yes, We're Worth It", labeling the Waterbury paper "heartless" and asking "How dare they?"[6]

The Republican-American has also been critical of investment in mass transportation.[7] Its headquarters are located alongside the city's Metro-North Railroad station, and actually in the beautiful Mead, McKim, and White-designed building that formerly served as the city's railroad station.

Fiscal conservative groups such as the Club for Growth have, on the other hand, supported much of the paper's editorial agenda.[8]

Some of the paper's main competitors include the Connecticut Post, the Danbury News-Times, the Meriden Record-Journal, the New Haven Register, and the Torrington Register Citizen. However, these competitors do not cover Waterbury news, making the Republican American the only newspaper for the city of approximatley 108,000.

There's those buzzwords that the conservatives and republicans often use: communist, stalinist, marxist-socialist. What no nazi?