who supports right to choose

[pattygreen 5]

patty said:

"If a drug abuser dies from his drug use, what are we to do? Legalize drugs so he could get them freely and be safe? NO! drugs are a detriment to society and should not be legalized!

I'd wager that guns kill more people annually than drugs, but you want everybody to own guns. And most people don't kill somebody else when they shoot up drugs. When someone shoots a gun they, very often, are killing someone else. Using your logic, if drugs should be outlawed, why not guns?

Guns don't kill anyone. People kill.

There is no debate going on in this country over whether drugs should be legalized or not. The vast majority of people agree that they should be. Guns, OTOH, is of debate and the people want their freedom to own them.

[pattygreen 5]

What she pays all this and has a child and doesn't get a grant? Yes. How about child care deduction on income tax? No there is no shame in getting a government subsidized loan and no shame in getting a government grant. The shame is in accepting help that is available but begrudging it for others.

I do not begrudge others to get help that the government has already in place for them. What I oppose is all the NEW help that's being thrown out to everyone while we are in a recession and our national debt is skyrocketing past oblivion and where we can't even pay the interset on what we owe!!!!! The nerve of Obama to speak the other night about all these wonderful things he has planned for the american people to help them financially, but not explain one word as to how he expects to pay for it all!

[kirafiki 0]

I will fight to the end of my life to uphold the Roe v. Wade decision.

[pattygreen 5]

I know you buy into the age old NRA slogan, if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

But have you read the statistics on how many gun owners have their guns used on them? It is not unusual for a criminal to take the victim's gun away and shoot the victim with it.

And there was the case in Florida (in my neighborhood) where a guy who worked a party at the clubhouse, left the job and wandered down the cart path of the golf course and got "lost." He stumbled up to the patio door of a private residence and started banging on the door and it was 3 a.m. The homeowner jumped out of bed, grabbed his gun and eased his way into the family room. The guy, who couldn't speak English, was yelling and banging on the glass door and the homeowner yelled for him to go away! The guy yelled louder and started kicking the glass door. The homeowner told him, "I have a gun!" and the guy just nodded his head and yelled and banged on the door harder. So the homeowner shot him through the glass. He felt his family's and his life was threatened, for sure.

The foreign speaking guy survived the gunshot (to his leg) and lawyered up. He had a lawyer before he got out of the hospital. You can guess the rest. It wasn't a happy outcome for the homeowner. The guy claimed he was yelling that he was lost and just wanted to use the phone. And the authorities believed him. They said that since there was a barrier between him and the homeowner, that the homeowner was wrong for shooting him.

Yeah, guns don't kill people. People kill people. And they do it a whole lot faster and better with guns.

If you're one of those people who feel that if they owned a gun, they would use it in a wrong way, then you shouldn't own one. Just don't expect everyone else to throw theirs out cause you're paranoid.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

What she pays all this and has a child and doesn't get a grant? Yes. How about child care deduction on income tax? No there is no shame in getting a government subsidized loan and no shame in getting a government grant. The shame is in accepting help that is available but begrudging it for others.

I do not begrudge others to get help that the government has already in place for them. What I oppose is all the NEW help that's being thrown out to everyone while we are in a recession and our national debt is skyrocketing past oblivion and where we can't even pay the interset on what we owe!!!!! The nerve of Obama to speak the other night about all these wonderful things he has planned for the american people to help them financially, but not explain one word as to how he expects to pay for it all!

The CBO report showed how the healthcare reform bill would reduce the deficit: YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT.

The jobs program will be paid for with PAID BACK BAILOUT MONEY (about $35 billion). Some of the rest of the paid back bailed out money will be used to REDUCE THE DEFICIT.

The tax on the the big banks that received the bailout would be a REVENUE PRODUCER.

And in next year's budget he is proposing a spending freeze for certain programs.

SO WHAT DON'T YOU GET????? :biggrin:

I heard all of this in his state of the union - weren't YOU listening????

[pattygreen 5]

The CBO report showed how the healthcare reform bill would reduce the deficit: YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT.

The jobs program will be paid for with PAID BACK BAILOUT MONEY (about $35 billion). Some of the rest of the paid back bailed out money will be used to REDUCE THE DEFICIT.

The tax on the the big banks that received the bailout would be a REVENUE PRODUCER.

And in next year's budget he is proposing a spending freeze for certain programs.

SO WHAT DON'T YOU GET????? :biggrin:

I heard all of this in his state of the union - weren't YOU listening????

The HC plan is NOT deficit positive. This is how it was going to work:

Taxes will be collected starting in 2010. Coverage will begin in 2014/2015. So, by the year 2020 (collecting taxes for 10 years, but only covering people for 5 years) is the reason for why the plan would be deficit positive. But, based on 1 year of collecting taxes and 1 year of coverage, it comes up in the negative. So, for ten years you are deficit positive because you are collecting taxes for 10 years and only covering for 5 of those years. What's going to happen in 2020 and beyond when you are collecting taxes but only have about 1/2 of what's needed to cover the people? This is where we speak about rationing.

Obama was deceitful in the way he presented it. But why should he worry. By the time his plan is drowning us and all the rationing of HC begins due to not being able to afford it, he will be sitting pretty and set for life as an X president somewhere.:glare:

This is why the people are telling you that it is NOT going to help the deficit. It will ruin us! I know alot of you don't like to look at what you are proposing and what it will do to future generations, but we must.

[pattygreen 5]

I will fight to the end of my life to uphold the Roe v. Wade decision.

Enjoy today, contribute to humankind, and leave less of a mess than you found...

This is your motto, yet you will fight to the death to be able to murder the unborn. How is that contributing to mankind? Babies are mankind.

[pattygreen 5]

The CBO report showed how the healthcare reform bill would reduce the deficit: YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT.

The jobs program will be paid for with PAID BACK BAILOUT MONEY (about $35 billion). Some of the rest of the paid back bailed out money will be used to REDUCE THE DEFICIT.

The tax on the the big banks that received the bailout would be a REVENUE PRODUCER.

And in next year's budget he is proposing a spending freeze for certain programs.

SO WHAT DON'T YOU GET????? :biggrin:

I heard all of this in his state of the union - weren't YOU listening????

Spending freeze – The AP points out that it will save less than 1% of predicted deficits over the next ten years — and that Obama scoffed at such a plan when John McCain proposed it in 2008.

Health care – Obama said the Democratic plan would allow people to keep their insurance and their doctors, but the bill doesn’t guarantee either. Their plan has massive cuts to Medicare Advantage, which would definitely affect coverage of a large portion of America’s seniors and disabled.

Lobbyists – Obama has not “excluded” lobbyists from his administration; he’s hired over a dozen for key posts, and the AP notes seven of those waivers were for White House posts. Obama called for restrictions on lobbyist contributions, but those already exist.

Two million jobs saved through Porkulus – The CBO puts the theoretical range between 600K and 1.6 million, but also cautions that the methodology of estimating jobs “saved or created” is “uncertain.” The last detailed numbers the White House produced totaled 650,000 — and were found to be highly inaccurate.

Openness: “Obama skipped past a broken promise from his campaign — to have the negotiations for health care legislation broadcast on C-SPAN “so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies.” Instead, Democrats in the White House and Congress have conducted the usual private negotiations, making multibillion-dollar deals with hospitals, pharmaceutical companies and other stakeholders behind closed doors. Nor has Obama lived up consistently to his pledge to ensure that legislation is posted online for five days before it’s acted upon.”

Just a side note: Chris Matthews statement "I forgot he was black tonight for an hour." Insults the president and all black people, yet, another one gets a pass from the liberals.:glare:

[pattygreen 5]

The CBO report showed how the healthcare reform bill would reduce the deficit: YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT.

The jobs program will be paid for with PAID BACK BAILOUT MONEY (about $35 billion). Some of the rest of the paid back bailed out money will be used to REDUCE THE DEFICIT.

The tax on the the big banks that received the bailout would be a REVENUE PRODUCER.

And in next year's budget he is proposing a spending freeze for certain programs.

SO WHAT DON'T YOU GET????? :biggrin:

I heard all of this in his state of the union - weren't YOU listening????

President Barack Obama told Americans the bipartisan deficit commission he will appoint won’t just be “one of those Washington gimmicks.” Left unspoken in that assurance was the fact that the commission won’t have any teeth. …

OBAMA: “I’ve called for a bipartisan fiscal commission, modeled on a proposal by Republican Judd Gregg and Democrat Kent Conrad. This can’t be one of those Washington gimmicks that lets us pretend we solved a problem. The commission will have to provide a specific set of solutions by a certain deadline. Yesterday, the Senate blocked a bill that would have created this commission. So I will issue an executive order that will allow us to go forward, because I refuse to pass this problem on to another generation of Americans.”

THE FACTS: Any commission that Obama creates would be a weak substitute for what he really wanted — a commission created by Congress that could force lawmakers to consider unpopular remedies to reduce the debt, including curbing politically sensitive entitlements like Social Security and Medicare. That idea crashed in the Senate this week, defeated by equal numbers of Democrats and Republicans. Any commission set up by Obama alone would lack authority to force its recommendations before Congress, and would stand almost no chance of success.

Of course, even his first proposal was a rather dishonest dodge of accountability, especially for Democrats. A bipartisan commission that recommended tax hikes as a means of raising revenue would allow Democrats to shove part of the blame for raising taxes in a recession on Republicans. It would allow more of them to tell voters, “Well, we committed to doing what the commission demanded,” or “We had to accept the commission’s findings in toto based on the rules established for it,” or other such nonsense. We already have a bipartisan commission with 535 members to handle budgetary decisions — it’s called Congress. (Ed Morrissey)

[pattygreen 5]

Obama repeatedly insisted that he inherited massive budgetary problems from George Bush, but the Con Law professor may want to retake his high-school civics class. Congress passes budgets, not the President, and the last three budgets came from Democrats. In three years, they increased annual federal spending by $900 billion, while the admittedly profligate and irresponsible Republican Congresses under George Bush increased annual federal spending by $800 billion — in six years. And during the last three years before taking office as President, Obama served in the Senate that passed those bills, and he voted for every Democratic budget put in front of him.

[pattygreen 5]

This is one of my favorites that I agree with:

SOTU Report: Obama to America: No Habla Massachusetts

January 28, 2010 ·

The little presidential demagogic mouse roared last night and sent Americans a squeaky little mousie message…

Obama No Habla Massachusetts!

squeak squeak

The Obama issued a “Let Me Be Clear” Presidential Dare to the Majority of American Voters…

Go Ahead

Try to Stop My Progressive Socialism

Make My Day

squeak squeak

The Obama 2010 State of the Union Campaign Speech sent a clear message…

PROGRESSIVES ARE IN POWER

WE WILL NOT STOP

…until none of us are left in office

squeak squeak

So America… it is Obama & Co Full Steam Ahead for the Obama Progressive Socialism Train Ride to Hell:

• Never Own a Problem, Blame Bush For Everything – Full Steam Ahead
  
• Progressive Astro-Turfing and the DEM Rent-A-Protester Program – Full Steam Ahead
  
  
• Wholesale Personal Attacks Against Opposing American Voters – Full Steam Ahead
  
  
• more More MORE Progressive Borrow and Spend – Full Steam Ahead
  
  
• Presidential Lip Service to Government Transparency – Full Steam Ahead
  
  
• Ignoring Private Sector Job Makers – Full Steam Ahead
  
  
• Socialized Health Care – Full Steam Ahead
  
  
• Cap & Trade – Full Steam Ahead
  
  
• Open Gayness in the Military – Full Steam Ahead
  
  
• Increasing Government Spending and Size – Full Steam Ahead
  
  
• Attacks on the First Amendment – Full Steam Ahead
  
  
• Giving Islamic Terrorists Rights of US Citizenship – Full Steam Ahead
  
  
• Closing GITMO – Full Steam Ahead
  Fellow Majority of Taxpaying Voters in opposition to Socialism/Progressivism?
  
  Behold Obama – a reality-denying wee-wee’ed up little mouse flipping the bird at us!!! hahahaha
  

  Poor little mousie! coo…

  
  he needs a bail out from the state of denial lol

  
  

[Cleo's Mom 257]

[quote name=pattygreen;1405854

The HC plan is NOT deficit positive. This is how it was going to work:

Taxes will be collected starting in 2010. Coverage will begin in 2014/2015. So' date=' by the year 2020 (collecting taxes for 10 years, but only covering people for 5 years) is the reason for why the plan would be deficit positive. But, based on 1 year of collecting taxes and 1 year of coverage, it comes up in the negative. So, for ten years you are deficit positive because you are collecting taxes for 10 years and only covering for 5 of those years. What's going to happen in 2020 and beyond when you are collecting taxes but only have about 1/2 of what's needed to cover the people? This is where we speak about rationing.

Obama was deceitful in the way he presented it. But why should he worry. By the time his plan is drowning us and all the rationing of HC begins due to not being able to afford it, he will be sitting pretty and set for life as an X president somewhere.:biggrin:

This is why the people are telling you that it is NOT going to help the deficit. It will ruin us! I know alot of you don't like to look at what you are proposing and what it will do to future generations, but we must.

I'll believe the independent CBO report rather than some conservative, Obama-hating website analysis.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Spending freeze – The AP points out that it will save less than 1% of predicted deficits over the next ten years — and that Obama scoffed at such a plan when John McCain proposed it in 2008. More proof that nothing will ever satisfy the party of no and the obstructionists.

Health care – Obama said the Democratic plan would allow people to keep their insurance and their doctors, but the bill doesn’t guarantee either. Quote me the part of the bill where it says people will be forced out of their plan. Since most people get their insurance through their employers, it is the employers who choose the plan, not the employees, unless it's negotiated. Their plan has massive cuts to Medicare Advantage, which would definitely affect coverage of a large portion of America’s seniors and disabled. Medicare Advantage was a big cadillace plan for medicare recipients paid for in part by our taxdollars. Another big bush giveaway to big business.

Lobbyists – Obama has not “excluded” lobbyists from his administration; he’s hired over a dozen for key posts, and the AP notes seven of those waivers were for White House posts.He kept some who were left over from bush until their contracts expired or some whose expertiese would have been hard to replace immediately. Obama called for restrictions on lobbyist contributions, but those already exist.

Two million jobs saved through Porkulus – The CBO puts the theoretical range between 600K and 1.6 million, but also cautions that the methodology of estimating jobs “saved or created” is “uncertain.” The last detailed numbers the White House produced totaled 650,000 — and were found to be highly inaccurate. That's why they're called estimates. If you were told the stimulus money saved your job, it might not be counted like a new hire would.

Openness: “Obama skipped past a broken promise from his campaign — to have the negotiations for health care legislation broadcast on C-SPAN “so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies.” Instead, Democrats in the White House and Congress have conducted the usual private negotiations, making multibillion-dollar deals with hospitals, pharmaceutical companies and other stakeholders behind closed doors.It was on C-Span until it broke up into the many house and senate committees who were meeting all over the place at different times and between their offices and meeting sites so it was logistically almost impossible to broadcast this. Nor has Obama lived up consistently to his pledge to ensure that legislation is posted online for five days before it’s acted upon.”

Just a side note: Chris Matthews statement "I forgot he was black tonight for an hour." Insults the president and all black people, yet, another one gets a pass from the liberals.:biggrin:

Chris Matthews sometimes says stupid things without thinking but he is an Obama supporter.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Obama repeatedly insisted that he inherited massive budgetary problems from George Bush, but the Con Law professor may want to retake his high-school civics class. Congress passes budgets, not the President, and the last three budgets came from Democrats. In three years, they increased annual federal spending by $900 billion, while the admittedly profligate and irresponsible Republican Congresses under George Bush increased annual federal spending by $800 billion — in six years. And during the last three years before taking office as President, Obama served in the Senate that passed those bills, and he voted for every Democratic budget put in front of him.

bush signed every one of those deficit producing budgets - budgets that HE prepared and sent to congress. The deficits were caused by two (2) tax cuts to the rich, pushed through by republicans, and two wars that we didn't have the money to pay for so we had to borrow it from China.

That's what caused bush to take a surplus from Clinton and turn it into a deficit. Now you and other neo-cons can try to re-write history but I will call you on it here.

And this deficit, increasing unemployment, falling GDP, and an economy on the brink of a depression IS WHAT OBAMA INHERITED FROM THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

[pattygreen 5]

Quote me the part of the bill where it says people will be forced out of their plan. Since most people get their insurance through their employers, it is the employers who choose the plan, not the employees, unless it's negotiated.

I have already gone over this with you. Insurance companies can not, I repeat, CAN NOT compete with a gov. insurance plan that is not out to make a profit. ALL the private citizens and business people will turn to the gov. plan to save money for themselves. In so doing, the rates for private ins. companies will need to go up to cover the loss of policy holders who went for the gov. plan. This will cause others to go for the gov. plan as well. Before long, EVERYONE will be on it. There. NO MORE OPTIONS for the people. A government take over. Why can't you forsee that? This is not 'quoted' in the bill as you would like me to show you. This is reality of what will happen if the government starts their own ins. company that will compete with private ins. companies.