who supports right to choose

[pattygreen 5]

So, you believe that it's absurd for a woman to believe she has the right to control her own body.

So, cough up that kidney, Patty.

How is my not giving away a kidney going to effect someone who needs one? For every ONE person that needs one, there are billions who could give one. For every baby that needs to survive the 9 months of pregnancy, there is but ONE who could make it happen. The mother. How ridiculous!

[rodriguezequal 3]

Lydia your posts were beautifully said...and as alwasy bravo BJean :frown:

[pattygreen 5]

battygreen:

Have you noticed that no matter how much we differ in our viewpoints on issues that I do not stoop so low as to ever call you names? How would you feel if I started to call you Buttheadjean or something similar? If you are as mature as you sometimes come across as being, then I would appreciate it if you would STOP calling me batty. Thanks.

"If only there weren't those extreme christians who desire to eliminate all of the 'goodness'(sinfulness)in the world, we would all get along just fine." By your 'goodness', I speak of abortions which doesn't kill babies, but in fact gives women a 'right' to their own bodies, gay marriages because it's not a sin to have sex with the same sex, their just people in love, and prostitution as a legal profession because anyone should be able to 'choose' what they want to do.(sarcasm added).They will say that we "HATE"...

Do not presume that I am not a Christian. Do not presume that you have the the sole proper interpretation of the Bible. And do not misquote me.

I don't presume anything. Your own beliefs on issues show me that you are not a follower of Jesus. You can 'call' yourself a christian all you want, but a christian is one who 'BELIEVES' what Jesus says about life.

At least do not do that if you want to be taken seriously by others.

You have insinuated that I wrote these words:

No, I have insinuated that this is what prolifers feel that most prochoicers would like. To get rid of the christians who want to get rid of the sinful actions of others.

"If only there weren't those extreme christians who desire to eliminate all of the 'goodness'(sinfulness)in the world, we would all get along just fine."

and I did not. You also insinuated that I used the word "hate" and I did not use the word "hate" or "hateful" in the context that your post did.

Many here have spoken of me and other christians as 'Haters' simply because we do not tolerate or want to accept what they dont consider sinful. Just read your own words below in this post.

You are exactly the kind of person who is so extreme, so intolerant, so quick to toss out the words God and the Bible, that you are the type of person who does inspire wackos to do your bidding. And you know it. And I do not doubt that you are among those who applaud the death of Dr. Tiller because you consider him a mass murderer.

And you say that I am ugly? Do you really believe that I would applaud the murder of someone? Do you really? I'm going to just believe you said that out of anger and let it go.

You don't get by with the cop out that this is indicative of the second coming. You don't get to blame everybody else for the distain they have for your words. You have no excuse. You are being irresponsible, ugly, judgemental, intolerant and self-serving. You hide behind the Bible and refuse to take responsiblity for your tirades.

And you KNOW that what I say is true and it infuriates you that GOD is right and that what I say is scriptural. I DO hide behind the bible and I am proud of it! God is my refuge and my strength. He gives me the words to speak from his word. And gives christians permission to do so.

It is never you who calls someone a murderer, it's God. It's never you who spews hate, it's God. God hates. God hates the sin. God hates, hates, hates. But you don't. You only tell us that God does.

No. I hate sin, too. I love the sinner, though.

YOU are the kind of person who will bring on the second coming.

No. You are.

YOU are the kind of person who Jesus spoke to about love and forgiveness, no matter what the sin. YOU are not fooling anyone. It is YOU who is spewing the hate and inciting people to feel they are holier than everyone else and that they are merely God's instrument when they kill someone they disagree with.

People who feel they are God's instruments when they kill someone who disagrees with them are simply deranged. As much as you might like that to be me, it's not.

People like you are feeding a malignant cancer in this country.

And people like you are ushering in Jesus' return to bring this world the peace it deserves. In the end, mankind will call what is right in God's eyes 'wrong', and what is wrong in God's eyes 'right'. That's exactly what you and others are doing. It couldn't be more clear. Only after His return will we be able to live in harmony. When Christ sits on His throne and EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess that He is Lord of all. You will understand at that time what is wrong in God's eyes. Abortion is wrong.

And by God, if you and your ilk don't straighten up, learn to respect others, learn to tolerate different beliefs, learn how to love people, learn how to help people, in spite of the fact that they smoke or drink or commit other heinous sins that YOU HATE, then we're all definitely in for a lot more killing and grief.

Please, please, please, for the love of God look inward for a change. Stop telling everyone else how wrong they are. Take responsibility for your hate. Stop blaming God for your own personal feelings. Understand and take responsibility for how your words affect people.

It's hard for people to hear what God has to say about right and wrong. But even so, it needs to be told. They want to keep on doing what they want to do and they don't want anyone to tell them that the one who is the Authority said no. My personal feelings on issues line up with God's feelings on the issues.

Bjean says: No one is knocking Christianity here. No one is knocking the Bible or God or Jesus or Christians. People are criticizing the ones who are talking the talk that says that they are the only ones who know what is right and wrong. People are being criticized for intolerance and dislike of their fellow countrymen, not God! People are being criticized for using low-down tactics to make their case. You are and people like you are the ones who are using God and who are likely to bring on the second coming; not everybody else in the world who are trying to love and get along. It hangs on the shoulders of those who believe that murdering a murderer is fine as long as they get to choose who gets murdered.

And if I haven't been perfectly clear: no one is blaming God or the Bible or Christianity for the ills of the world; they are blaming the people who are out to harm others with their words and their deeds.

God is the one who gives us these words. So, when you don't like them, you are in essense blaming God for them.

When a sibling says to his brother: "Daddy said not to ever tell a lie. He told me this and you need to know it, too. He wanted me to tell you also." The brother may say,"Bull. Daddy never said that. You're a jerk!" (because he feels that lying is okay) or he may go to his daddy and find out if that's what he really said.

I suggest you go to our Father and ask him to reveal to you whether it is right or wrong to allow abortions. You don't have to take my word on the issue. Find out for yourself.

Edited June 2, 2009 by pattygreen

[BJean 16]

As far as the Battygreen moniker is concerned, I didn't start it. Someone else did. The first time I read it, I thought it was insensitive. But then I began to understand why she called you that. And no it wasn't used out of anger. Just observation.

And let me tell you that I did not say the things I did out of anger. I am not mad at you. I am simply telling you and others what I observe to be the truth.

You continue to duck the responsibility for the BAD things that you say to and about people. God is not the inspiration for that. You've come up with it all on your own. But you'll never be big enough to admit it, that is obvious. I suppose that pompous attitude is what is goading you and others into doing the things that you do to people even though you are frightfully wrong.

You should know that I do not need you to be any kind of link between God and me. We have a relationship just between us. He guides me in everything that I say and do. He has asked me to lead you out of your darkness. I have to admit at this point that I am not equipped to get that task done. I will continue to try to show you the light. I wish I had the words that God wants me to share with you. Perhaps in time, he will reveal them more specifically to me.

[BJean 16]

There is one thing I would like for you to think about and all I'm asking is that you just think about it: stop saying bad things about and to people and then refusing to admit that you are the person who is saying those words. Stop saying that God said them and that you are only the messenger. God doesn't like it. He wants you to bring lost souls into his fold and you are causing people to question Him and His potent message. You should be a good witness, not one who casts out others for their sins. He wants to have the opportunity to show them His love. He wants the opportunity to win souls over and to save them.

You are putting yourself between God and those people who need Him. You are not doing God's work the way He tells you to in the Bible. For some reason you have become derailed in the mission that he has charged you with. You may need to take some time out. Do some serious soul searching. God will reveal the truth to you, I am just sure of it.

[rodriguezequal 3]

God is the one who gives us these words. So, when you don't like them, you are in essense blaming God for them.

When a sibling says to his brother: "Daddy said not to ever tell a lie. He told me this and you need to know it, too. He wanted me to tell you also." The brother may say,"Bull. Daddy never said that. You're a jerk!" (because he feels that lying is okay) or he may go to his daddy and find out if that's what he really said.

I suggest you go to our Father and ask him to reveal to you whether it is right or wrong to allow abortions. You don't have to take my word on the issue. Find out for yourself.

you can't handle being called Batty, but you can call me a murderer? hmmm I would rather be called Batty

[rodriguezequal 3]

There is one thing I would like for you to think about and all I'm asking is that you just think about it: stop saying bad things about and to people and then refusing to admit that you are the person who is saying those words. Stop saying that God said them and that you are only the messenger. God doesn't like it. He wants you to bring lost souls into his fold and you are causing people to question Him and His potent message. You should be a good witness, not one who casts out others for their sins. He wants to have the opportunity to show them His love. He wants the opportunity to win souls over and to save them.

You are putting yourself between God and those people who need Him. You are not doing God's work the way He tells you to in the Bible. For some reason you have become derailed in the mission that he has charged you with. You may need to take some time out. Do some serious soul searching. God will reveal the truth to you, I am just sure of it.

Very well said. I belive that it has been said that only God will judge us...

[pattygreen 5]

As far as the Battygreen moniker is concerned, I didn't start it. Someone else did. The first time I read it, I thought it was insensitive. But then I began to understand why she called you that. And no it wasn't used out of anger. Just observation.

And let me tell you that I did not say the things I did out of anger. I am not mad at you. I am simply telling you and others what I observe to be the truth.

You continue to duck the responsibility for the BAD things that you say to and about people.

What bad things have I said about people? Please enlighten me. I may have said things TO people that they didn't agree with or like hearing, but not everything that is said in these debates I like hearing either. Debates are like that. Someone agrees and someone doesn't. What? People don't want to hear that both God and I believe that some things are sinful acts? Too bad. That's what they are.

God is not the inspiration for that. You've come up with it all on your own. But you'll never be big enough to admit it, that is obvious. I suppose that pompous attitude is what is goading you and others into doing the things that you do to people even though you are frightfully wrong.

What do I do to people?

You should know that I do not need you to be any kind of link between God and me. We have a relationship just between us. He guides me in everything that I say and do. He has asked me to lead you out of your darkness. I have to admit at this point that I am not equipped to get that task done. I will continue to try to show you the light. I wish I had the words that God wants me to share with you. Perhaps in time, he will reveal them more specifically to me.

That's funny, since I know that God has asked me to share the truth from his word about these controversial issues with you. Also, I am not trying to be your link to God. I could never be anyones link to God. Only Jesus can be that. I am actually pleased that you have a relationship with him.

[BJean 16]

All I ask is that you consider my words to you - just as I have considered yours. I have a feeling that you are still very resistant to opening your heart to what I am telling you that God wants for you and from you. I hope for your own sake that you open your mind and your heart. I honestly believe that I am being moved to tell you these things. I have nothing to gain, but you have so much to learn and to gain. If only you will listen and consider it to be very heartfelt and very much inspired by God.

God knows that you have been an avid student of the Bible and that you have studied as much as you are capable. You have said to Him that you have turned over your life to Him, however God is troubled that you are still holding back, still mired in the devil's sin, still not fully trusting in Him.

Dig deep patty. Stop thinking in terms of the sins of this life and rise up before Him, not holding back any portion of your mind and soul to Christ. You can be a better person, even now. God is counting on you to let go of the things that are keeping you from what He has planned for you.

[pattygreen 5]

bjean, I am always willing to consider all that God has for me. Even I am still learning from Him every day. I will consider all you have said.

[pattygreen 5]

you can't handle being called Batty, but you can call me a murderer? hmmm I would rather be called Batty

I am sorry that this topic hits you so personally. I know that you have had an abortion. It is difficult to discuss the prolife stand without bringing up the fact that it is killing life. If it could be said any easier, people wouldn't become so offended, but I don't see how prolifers can express their view on the issue without calling it murder, plain and simple. I do believe that women who have had abortions simply never saw it as murder beforehand, and therefore did not have any 'evil' intent in mind when they had their abortion. This doesn't make it any less wrong, though.

I have pointed out my belief that the baby in the womb is just as precious to God as the newly born child is to him. I have pointed out that abortion is wrong. I have also told of God's forgiveness for anyone who has had an abortion. God is not merciless. He understands our nature. He made us. He also made a way for us to escape his condemnation.

So, I apologize to you personally if you have been offended by my stand on abortion. But, I can not change my belief that it is murdering a human being. sorry.

[BJean 16]

patty, thank you. And praised be to God in the highest.

[pattygreen 5]

patty, thank you. And praised be to God in the highest.

bjean, you are welcomed. And will you also take into consideration the truths from God's word that I have given to you? Maybe look them up for yourself?

[BJean 16]

Of course. I read the Bible everyday. I am not unfamiliar with the passages you've quoted. I will re-read them, however.

[pattygreen 5]

Of course. I read the Bible everyday. I am not unfamiliar with the passages you've quoted. I will re-read them, however.

If you are familiar with the passages I quoted, then how is it that you do not consider the life in the womb as God does? Special and created, as well as God having a plan for its life? If women abort, how can God's plan for that life continue?