who supports right to choose

[BJean 16]

rodriguez then I am really glad that he is no longer suffering. And that his loved ones do not have to see him in pain.

[BJean 16]

patty all those things you said are similar to things that my great, great, great grandfather wrote as well. He was sure that the end was near because of all the changes he had witnessed that seemed to be prophesied in the Bible.

What I believe is that we need to be living our lives as good people whether we believe in a Christian God, Allah or the Sun God. We need to treat others as well as we would like to be treated. We do not need to make decisions based on a book. We need to make decisions based on common sense and an empathy for others. That is what will bring us peace and as much harmony as possible right here, right now.

To constantly declare that we're all going to hell if we don't live a certain way that you've decided God wants, doesn't seem to bring peace or harmony. In fact, religion as you preach it seems to exact the opposite from posts here at LBT. And I have witnessed it all my life, your brand of preaching, and I have seen the damage it can do to others. To my way of thinking, heaven can be here on earth if we want it. And so can hell be here on earth if we aren't very, very careful.

Various hard-lined beliefs by wholly endoctrinated individuals, with zero tolerance for other beliefs, is exactly what some wars are all about. For me, war is hell on earth. Harshness toward others is hell on earth. Intolerance and superiority are ugly and not worthy of God's creatures and those things can feed a black heart.

Righteous indignation over someone needing a procedure that will correct a wrong, is not worthy of good and caring and tolerant and peaceful people.

[pattygreen 5]

I am not cruel because I am thinking about the young girl...the one that has a life, friends, emotions, and a unwanted changing body...what about her health? THE FETUS HAS NO EMOTIONS!!! You are going to ruin a little girls life for a fetus that could grow up to be a rapist? You are cruel because you do not take the little girls life into consideration...all you think about is the growing fetus!!!! I am far from cruel thank you very much!!!

And I am not cruel because I am thinking about the baby. What about his life that the mom would snuff out with a vacuum! I am far from cruel thank you very much! You don't like being called cruel for your stand on the issue, yet you don't have any problem calling me cruel for my stand on the issue.

How do you know whether the fetus has emotions or not?

And what do you mean by saying I am going to ruin a little girls life for a fetus that could grow up to be a rapist? That doesn't make sense. No one knows what anyone will grow up to be.

BTW, I don't ONLY think about the fetus. I think about all involved. But the baby is the one who needs a mediator. He is helpless and defenseless against the vacuum!

[rodriguezequal 3]

all I have heard you talk about is oh poor fetus oh oh...what about the little girl...? the woman? And as far as you being cruel...go back to some of you posts...you have been very cruel to people on here, including myself...I have tried to be nothing but polite...I have had my moments, but I have tried to keep it together.

[pattygreen 5]

patty all those things you said are similar to things that my great, great, great grandfather wrote as well. He was sure that the end was near because of all the changes he had witnessed that seemed to be prophesied in the Bible.

Your grandfather was a wise man.

What I believe is that we need to be living our lives as good people whether we believe in a Christian God, Allah or the Sun God. We need to treat others as well as we would like to be treated.

true.

We do not need to make decisions based on a book. We need to make decisions based on common sense and an empathy for others.

Whose common sense?

That is what will bring us peace and as much harmony as possible right here, right now.

whose common sense should make these decisions?

To constantly declare that we're all going to hell if we don't live a certain way that you've decided God wants, doesn't seem to bring peace or harmony.

I have NEVER declared that we're all going to Hell if we don't live a certain way. Why do you keep insisting that those are my declarations? What I have said is that those who reject Christ as their Savior will live in eternity without God.

In fact, religion as you preach it seems to exact the opposite from posts here at LBT. And I have witnessed it all my life, your brand of preaching,

My brand of preaching? And what brand would that be? I simply tell what is written in the scriptures, and tell it straightforwardly and honestly without sugarcoating it.

and I have seen the damage it can do to others. To my way of thinking, heaven can be here on earth if we want it. And so can hell be here on earth if we aren't very, very careful.

If you don't believe in God, then where would you even get the concept of a heaven or a hell?

Various hard-lined beliefs by wholly endoctrinated individuals, with zero tolerance for other beliefs, is exactly what some wars are all about. For me, war is hell on earth. Harshness toward others is hell on earth. Intolerance and superiority are ugly and not worthy of God's creatures and those things can feed a black heart.

Righteous indignation over someone needing a procedure that will correct a wrong, is not worthy of good and caring and tolerant and peaceful people.

Now it's just a 'procedure'? Well, to me, it's not a 'procedure'? It's murder to me.

Tome,that 'procedure' is not worthy of good and caring and tolerant, peaceful people!

[pattygreen 5]

all I have heard you talk about is oh poor fetus oh oh...what about the little girl...? the woman? And as far as you being cruel...go back to some of you posts...you have been very cruel to people on here, including myself...I have tried to be nothing but polite...I have had my moments, but I have tried to keep it together.

yeah, right.

[rodriguezequal 3]

That is it...I am out of here! Patty congrats you can stand on your little high horse all you want! I am done...you make people feel like shit and you should be ashamed of the way you have treated some of us...not only me! At least Gadget has a brain to be polite to people that are having a hard time...It has been nice standing aside you BJean and everyone else and it has been great discussing things with you Gadget!

[pattygreen 5]

all I have heard you talk about is oh poor fetus oh oh...what about the little girl...? the woman? And as far as you being cruel...go back to some of you posts...you have been very cruel to people on here, including myself...I have tried to be nothing but polite...I have had my moments, but I have tried to keep it together.

What about the girl or the woman? What can be done after she's already carrying the child? NOTHING. It's done. She needs to carry it and give birth. She needs to have alot of support and counsel. She needs to know that this is not just about HER. That there is another life involved here, that sometimes what life throws at you may stink, but even so, that's the way it is. If she was raped, she needs to understand that bad people do bad things and because of that others are affected through no fault of their own. She needs to do the right thing for the innocent one in her womb. She needs to sacrifice 9 months of her life for the sake of the other life within her. She needs to carry and deliver a baby. Then, after that, she can go on with her life. (and look back on that time with no regrets) For even if you deny it till you're blue in the face, if she had an abortion, she would have killed an innocent human being! Just about every woman that I know who had an abortion has had sorrow and remorse and grief and regret over what they have done. These feelings don't come because they did a 'good and righteous' thing. They come because they did a 'sinful' thing. If what they did was okay in God's eyes, they would never feel remorse or regret. But I believe that deep down inside every person, they KNOW that abortion is wrong. They just don't want to admit it.

[rodriguezequal 3]

She doesn't NEED to do any of that...you just WANT her to!!!!!!! Well you "know" me and I have never had any of those about my aboriton! EVER!!!

[BJean 16]

patty: "Your grandfather was a wise man."

Well not about that, he wasn't. He was completely wrong.

patty: "whose common sense should make these decisions?"

Do you understand what common sense is? I'm talking about our innate sense of good and bad, right and wrong and the intelligence that we are born with, as well as the intelligence we have from our education, our environment and experiences.

patty: "I have NEVER declared that we're all going to Hell if we don't live a certain way. Why do you keep insisting that those are my declarations? What I have said is that those who reject Christ as their Savior will live in eternity without God."

Don't you think that your first and second sentences are proven to be completely false by your third sentence? I do.

patty: "My brand of preaching? And what brand would that be? I simply tell what is written in the scriptures, and tell it straightforwardly and honestly without sugarcoating it."

That's exactly what I'm talking about, dear.

patty: "If you don't believe in God, then where would you even get the concept of a heaven or a hell?"

Why from you, of course.

patty: "Now it's just a 'procedure'? Well, to me, it's not a 'procedure'? It's murder to me.

Tome,that 'procedure' is not worthy of good and caring and tolerant, peaceful people!"

No my dear, it is not just NOW a procedure. It is what it has been for a very long time. You all like to make it out to be something that it isn't. It is a procedure, simple, quick and given the right circumstances, extremely important.

And to me, if a procedure is capable of saving a woman's life, she is worth it and right to consider it. In any case, if it is the woman's life versus the possibility of a fertilized egg's promise of a life, then it is a procedure that is worthy of considering. Good, caring, tolerant and peaceful, and most of all loving people are quite capable of making that decision without your condemnation and exclamation point.

[BJean 16]

patty: "If you don't believe in God, then where would you even get the concept of a heaven or a hell?"

Btw, who says I don't believe in God? That is at least the second time you've projected your feelings on me. You do not know what you're talking about. You do not know me. You have no idea what I believe with regard to God, except that you do know that I do not buy what you're peddling.

[BJean 16]

rodriguez, you have been a trooper. I have been very impressed with your posts and anytime you want to speak with me, about anything, I will be here for you. PM me if you like.

[rodriguezequal 3]

Thank you very much BJean. and BTW Patty it is I that doesn't believe in your God/Jesus/lord...

[Carrie_C 9]

Patty, you said earlier that the topic of masterbation isn't clear in the Bible. Well, I don't think the Bible is clear on the topic of abortion either.

[rodriguezequal 3]

What Does The Bible Say About Abortion?

"Out of more than 600 laws of Moses, none comments on abortion. One Mosaic law about miscarriage specifically contradicts the claim that the bible is antiabortion, clearly stating that miscarriage does not involve the death of a human being. If a woman has a miscarriage as the result of a fight, the man who caused it should be fined. If the woman dies, however, the culprit must be killed."

"According to the bible, life begins at birth--when a baby draws its first breath. The bible defines life as "breath" in several significant passages, including the story of Adam's creation in Genesis 2:7, when God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Jewish law traditionally considers that personhood begins at birth."

"Many antiabortionists quote the sixth commandment, "Thou shalt not kill" (Ex. 20:13) as evidence that the bible is antiabortion. They fail to investigate the bible's definition of life (breath) or its deafening silence on abortion. Moreover, the Mosaic law in Exodus 21:22-25, directly following the Ten Commandments, makes it clear that an embryo or fetus is not a human being.

An honest reader must admit that the bible contradicts itself. "Thou shalt not kill" did not apply to many living, breathing human beings, including children, who are routinely massacred in the bible. The Mosaic law orders "Thou shalt kill" people for committing such "crimes" as cursing one's father or mother (Ex. 21:17), for being a "stubborn son" (Deut. 21:18-21), for being a homosexual (Lev. 20:13), or even for picking up sticks on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-35)! Far from protecting the sanctity of life, the bible promotes capital punishment for conduct which no civilized person or nation would regard as criminal."

"The bible is not pro-child. Why did God set a bear upon 42 children just for teasing a prophet (2 Kings 2:23-24)? Far from demonstrating a "pro-life" attitude, the bible decimates innocent babies and pregnant women in passage after gory passage, starting with the flood and the wanton destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, progressing to the murder of the firstborn child of every household in Egypt (Ex. 12:29), and the New Testament threats of annihilation."

SO SAYS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR!!!

Edited May 30, 2009 by rodriguezequal