who supports right to choose

[rodriguezequal 3]

i would like to clarify something. God doesn't embed anyone with their circumstances. Life happens. He intervenes if believers ask him to. Prayers of unbelievers who don't trust god fall on deaf ears. What would make someone who won't acknowledge that he exists ask him for anything anyway? If a child of god asks him for anything, he will have it, unless god sees that it wouldn't benefit them or it may harm them. Just like a parent/child relationship.

If you believe that god hasn't shown you any compassion, it may be because you have not chosen to make him your father.

are you trying to say that i didn't pray my ass off when i was pregnant with my son?! That i didn't pray...give me a healthy baby, please...do you think that when my son was dying that i didn't pray and pray!!!!??? God doesn't get my prayers because everytime i prayed it fell on deaf ears. God has kick me when i was down time and time again. I am tired of hearing, "god only gives you what he thinks you can handle" well guess what i stopped being able to hand what he was throwing me a long friggin time ago!!!!! I hate what he has done to my family and my life. What happened to me and my son and my other child had nothing at all to do with free will!!! If god creates life then who the hell do you think helped my son develope? Who formed him? Who made him the way he is?!?! Where was god when i was trying to kill myself because no one answered my prayers? Where was god when my husband was injured in iraq? Where was god when my son was developing? Where was god when i was holding a blade to my wrist? Where is you god?!?! He's not here...he's never been there for me....ever!!!! How dare you spew that crap. You talk like god is speaking in your ear...like you would know exactly what he wants of his other children! You may know what he wants for you in your life than you follow what he wants for you, but don't you dare assume that you know what he wants from others....christianity is a religion. I don't care what you say! You should be ashamed of yourself...maybe you should think and reread what you type before you post!!! I'm out of here...

Edited May 21, 2009 by rodriguezequal
It was in all CAPS, but it wouldn't post that way...I am very angry and upset!

[rodriguezequal 3]

Christianity is not a religion. Religions are organized groups of people with their own set of rules and regulations that usually man has made up, like a doctrine of faith or a catechism or creed of some kind. Some christian churches take on a religious form, and is like that, but I believe that 'real' christianity is an awakening by God's Holy Spirit to the truth of the word of God as the one and only guidebook for mankind to follow, and a relationship with God. When someone becomes what we call 'born again', then they are truly in a relationship with God. Until then, they are just 'playing' church. My definition of Religion is mankind 'working' at trying to be good enough to get to God. And Christianity is man doing nothing and God reaching down to find him. EVERY 'Religion' out there expects their congregants to do something to make it to heaven (like give to charity, be good, live morally, share their faith, go door to door, praying continuously, behave, etc.) Christianity doesn't. It's the only faith out there where nothing is required of you except faith in Jesus to get you there. Many christians, after becoming born again know that their salvation is a gift from God and not through any works they have done, but when they understand the great sacrifice that Jesus made for them, they choose to do what's right in life and in so doing, honor God. But they are not sinless and know it. This is the difference between Religion and Christianity.

All of that is crap!

[TheWatcher 1]

are you trying to say that i didn't pray my ass off when i was pregnant with my son?! That i didn't pray...give me a healthy baby, please...do you think that when my son was dying that i didn't pray and pray!!!!??? God doesn't get my prayers because everytime i prayed it fell on deaf ears. God has kick me when i was down time and time again. I am tired of hearing, "god only gives you what he thinks you can handle" well guess what i stopped being able to hand what he was throwing me a long friggin time ago!!!!! I hate what he has done to my family and my life. What happened to me and my son and my other child had nothing at all to do with free will!!! If god creates life then who the hell do you think helped my son develope? Who formed him? Who made him the way he is?!?! Where was god when i was trying to kill myself because no one answered my prayers? Where was god when my husband was injured in iraq? Where was god when my son was developing? Where was god when i was holding a blade to my wrist? Where is you god?!?! He's not here...he's never been there for me....ever!!!! How dare you spew that crap. You talk like god is speaking in your ear...like you would know exactly what he wants of his other children! You may know what he wants for you in your life than you follow what he wants for you, but don't you dare assume that you know what he wants from others....Christianity is a religion. I don't care what you say! You should be ashamed of yourself...maybe you should think and reread what you type before you post!!! I'm out of here...

rodriguezequal I am sorry that pattygreens inflammatory speak reached you and i am sorry for the losses that you have had in your life and i hope you would read thins and try to understand what i am saying. I have not had a perfect life and in fact some things that have happened to me have driven me to attempt to end it all... But the one this i can say is that just because certain things happened that were horrible and sucked the spirit right out of you doesn't mean that you prayers fell on deaf ears... bad things happen to good people, bad things happen to the innocent and at time i can seem that believers can com under down right attack from the other side... the things to remember is that God is there to give us strength to fight and move on. even when life gets unbearable he is with us. i remember when i was in the midst of my storm i felt utterly alone and i blamed God for all that was done to me and all the struggles that i was forced to endure the abuse mental physical and sexual... i blamed God for all of it but. now that i am stronger and i am in a better place i realize that he was always there with me... the fact that i am hear typing this is proof of that. I don't want to go into details but there is no reason i should be alive right now. Prayer is a very powerful thing but it is incorrect to believe that just because you have faith and pray that it will always work out. life still happens and life is indeed messy. Yes it hurts and yes you may even feel abandoned but You are not alone her is there with you and through all the pain it may be impossible for you to see but he is there. I wish i was my father so i could really say what is needed to be said(hes a preacher) but as a sinner who have been through a lot i can say when i read your post i could feel how alone i felt when i believed that God had forsaken me... i cant tell you why the things that happened happened of when the sun will shine again but i hope that one day you believe that it will... I will pray that it will one day for you. pattygreen is just another injured soul on a journey and i'm going to pray for her too. but please don't give up yet because once the storm is over the bountiful harvest that is waiting for you will be great it may not be what you were expecting it may not be what you wanted or desired but it will bring more joy into your life that you could have possibly imagined could exist. I still am in aww of how far my faith in God has brought me physically, emotionally, and spiritually. but there were many many many dark times that i couldn't help but have faith and i have lost a lot on the way hear. but you just have to remember don't stop keep going. there is an enemy and you will be attacked but it states in the Bible that no weapon formed against me shall prosper (Isaiah 54:17) so when you get attacked you have to take the blow and pray harder and get back up and stand again and don't stop keep going because life is still coming. Isaiah 40: 31 ( my favorite passage ) says that they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as EAGLES they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. so as hard as it is to pick yourself up and keep going its what we must do. You are stronger that anything that this world or this life can possibly throw at you. you just need to remember that you can get back up again....

I appologise that i uses to many quotes from the Religious songs but i believe as my father doesn that music is the voice of God and can open ones heart and give the ability to heal.

Edited May 21, 2009 by TheWatcher
typos

[TheWatcher 1]

Donnie McClurkin - Stand - Free MP3 Stream on IMEEM Music

[rodriguezequal 3]

Thank you Watcher for your words of support and respect. Thank you for that...really. The past 3 years have been some of the worst years of my life...sometimes it just doesn't feel like there is light at the end...hopefully things will get better soon...fingers crossed!

[gadgetlady 4]

gadget: "Personal choice ends where another person's body begins."

Amen and hallelujah to that statement. I couldn't have said it better myself.

The simple fact is that the baby is not the mother's body. He or she is a separate person. He or she resides in the mother's body, but that doesn't make him or her a body part. Women don't have, for 9-month increments at various stages in their lives, two hearts, two brains, two sets of different DNA, two circulatory systems, two possibly different blood types, four arms, four legs, and occasionally a set of male genitalia. Unfortunately for women who don't want to be mothers, the baby resides in the mother's body and is on life support, as it were, for a period of time. The mother isn't making the choice to electively reduce her breast size, get banded, or remove her gall bladder. When she chooses to abort, she is choosing to take the life of another person.

According to our laws, you are completely free to choose whatever course of action you deem proper when it comes to your own body.

That's not entirely true. There are many things you can't legally do to your own body. Prostitute yourself (in most places), kill yourself (in most places), cut off your limbs at whim (you'd be institutionalized for trying), etc.

And I hope you're reading, carefully, all that has been posted regarding Christianity here. You can't be serious when you say that people who are against women's right to choose has nothing at all to do with religion.

I am quite serious. While religious people may get involved in the movement, as religious people got involved in slavery and civil rights (Martin Luther King, Jr. was a reverend, after all -- -AND pro-life!!!), that does not make it a religious issue.

[BJean 16]

You have no rights to that accumulation of tissue called a fertilized egg. If it is a baby, you have no rights to that baby. You have no right to intervene on its' behalf whether it is a "separate" entity or not. But to clarify further, it is absolutley NOT a separate entity until it develops into a separate entity. When it is a part of the mother, living and residing in her womb, it is a part of the mother.

Even if you can't see it that way, think of it like this: if you believe that it is a separate entity, it's like all the embryos that exist in the world. YOU have no right to them. You cannot go intervene on their behalf and choose what will become of them. YOU do not own them, its' parents own them and make all of the decisions for them.

It is against the law for people to compel frozen embryos to be implanted and ultimately cause them to develop into babies against the parents' wishes. And that is the way it has to be.

It is wrong, grossly wrong, for you or anyone else to make decisions about my fertlized egg, my embryo, my fetus, my unborn baby or anyother name you wish to give this "separate entity" that you want to control the destiny of.

You have no rights when it comes to my body, and you have no rights to my fertilized egg.

[gadgetlady 4]

are you trying to say that i didn't pray my ass off when i was pregnant with my son?! That i didn't pray...give me a healthy baby, please...do you think that when my son was dying that i didn't pray and pray!!!!??? God doesn't get my prayers because everytime i prayed it fell on deaf ears. God has kick me when i was down time and time again. I am tired of hearing, "god only gives you what he thinks you can handle" well guess what i stopped being able to hand what he was throwing me a long friggin time ago!!!!! I hate what he has done to my family and my life. What happened to me and my son and my other child had nothing at all to do with free will!!! If god creates life then who the hell do you think helped my son develope? Who formed him? Who made him the way he is?!?! Where was god when i was trying to kill myself because no one answered my prayers? Where was god when my husband was injured in iraq? Where was god when my son was developing? Where was god when i was holding a blade to my wrist? Where is you god?!?! He's not here...he's never been there for me....ever!!!! How dare you spew that crap. You talk like god is speaking in your ear...like you would know exactly what he wants of his other children! You may know what he wants for you in your life than you follow what he wants for you, but don't you dare assume that you know what he wants from others....christianity is a religion. I don't care what you say! You should be ashamed of yourself...maybe you should think and reread what you type before you post!!! I'm out of here...

rodriguezequal, I just wanted to tell you I have been at a loss for words since you started posting about this last night. I know you're angry and frustrated and a range of other emotions. You have been and are in my prayers. I have a few book resources for getting through things when God doesn't make sense -- if you're interested, let me know.

[gadgetlady 4]

You have no rights to that accumulation of tissue called a fertilized egg. If it is a baby, you have no rights to that baby. You have no right to intervene on its' behalf whether it is a "separate" entity or not.

Being a parent doesn't give you the right to kill your child. Born or unborn. We don't own other people.

You cannot go intervene on their behalf and choose what will become of them. YOU do not own them, its' parents own them and make all of the decisions for them.

Parents don't own their children. They are caretakers for their children.

It is wrong, grossly wrong, for you or anyone else to make decisions about my fertlized egg, my embryo, my fetus, my unborn baby or anyother name you wish to give this "separate entity" that you want to control the destiny of.

I don't want to "control the destiny of" another living person. I simply want to ensure that everyone's right to live is protected by law. Beyond that, their destiny is their destiny.

[BJean 16]

rodriguez, I have also found myself standing with a razor over my wrist. Sometimes it really seems like the only way out of gut-wrenching pain. But it isn't. There is help available if you choose to get it. Although sometimes it takes a whole lot of determination to find it.

Sometimes it requires time to pass in order to handle the shock and nearly unbearable sadness that envelopes you. There aren't always answers out there and you don't always have to feel that prayer is making a difference. But sometimes just the right person to talk to, just the right music or book can help you cope and become just the thing that will help you get through a very low spot in your life.

Whatever you need, I hope that you will be able to find it and that the pain will begin to fade. There is so much to live for and I promise you that there are so many wonderful things in your future, the work that it takes to be able to smile again, even laugh outloud again, will be worth the effort it takes to get you there.

You will be seeing your mom soon and a big hug from her will undoubtedly feel good. I hope you will have the time and opportunity to have a good long talk and you will be able to tell her exactly how you are feeling. I know she will do everything she can to comfort you.

There really aren't any hard and fast answers that will automatically cause it all to make sense to you - unfortunately. But over time, you will be able to deal with whatever hand life has dealt you. We always learn more from pain than we do from pleasure. Yeah, some of us get to be pretty smart from what we go through - what we manage to survive.

I have faith in YOU. I know you will get through all this. I hope that you will find something that will make you feel better right now, even if it is only a few seconds out of your day. Allow yourself to enjoy something, you certainly deserve to, and it takes nothing away from the real sadness that you are experiencing. It merely helps you survive.

[BJean 16]

gadget, I own my child. It is mine and no one elses. When it is in my womb, it is as much a part of me as my skin and bones. When I become pregnant against my wishes, and when I cannot bear to bring a child into the world, it is my decision how to handle it. You are not qualified to intervene and try to control me and my decisions; my child is totally my responsibility for the rest of his or her life. It has absolutely nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with me.

I do not care how lofty your goals are with regard to my child, I do not care one whit about your desire to save all potential humanity. Knock yourself out. But stay the hell out of my womb and keep out of my way if I choose to have an abortion for whatever personal reasons I have.

Your goals may have goodness behind them, but they may not. For all I know you're in the baby bartering business. It really doesn't matter at all to me what you do or why you claim to do it. But your rights end at my front door. I am sorry that you just don't get it. I'm sorry that you are so determined to take my rights away. But I will not let you.

[gadgetlady 4]

gadget, I own my child. It is mine and no one elses.

That says it all.

We can't own other people. When we do, we get to do such things as kill, enslave, and oppress them. It fosters the very worst part of human nature to believe and treat others as objects and possessions.

my child is totally my responsibility for the rest of his or her life. It has absolutely nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with me.

Yes and no. If you abuse or try to kill your child at any point during his or her post-uterine life, the government will intervene, and rightfully so, to protect the basic rights of that child. It is only right to extend those basic rights to the beginning of life.

For all I know you're in the baby bartering business.

Delusional much?

[BJean 16]

A fetus is not a person. That's why the government has no say in the conception or ban of conception or other controls over conception of children. Do you prefer the way it is in some countries where the government tells it's citizens whether they can have babies and/or what sex they are allowed to have? As far as I am concerned what you want it no different.

And are you

Delusional much?

Yes, indeed. No question about it. Athough you didn't have to spell it out for us. But thanks.

[BJean 16]

gadget: "If you abuse or try to kill your child at any point during his or her post-uterine life, the government will intervene, and rightfully so, to protect the basic rights of that child."

Right on! Relevant phrase being "post-uterine life". I have no quarrel with the government getting involved in the protection of a child. But I do have a quarrel with the government getting its' grubby little hands on my uterus and anything contained within that package of MINE.

[BJean 16]

gadget: "That says it all.

You're damned right about that. I am the only person who has the rights to my body and every cell that my body produces.

Who else has the rights to my cellular structure and everything within its' walls?

And I think I know your answer and that would make you a very mistaken person.