who supports right to choose

[rodriguezequal 3]

In her eyes it may not be. By child I meant a living, breathing, able to be held in your arms child...

[gadgetlady 4]

In her eyes it may not be.

And in the slaveowner's eyes, the slave wasn't fully human.

We shouldn't get to define when other people become "people". They are members of the human race, human beings, living human beings in utero. To say that somehow during that 9 months the mother is judge and jury and has the right to impose the death penalty on her child -- for no criminal infraction, no less -- is ridiculous.

[rodriguezequal 3]

compairing and abortion to slavery is ridiculous! The fetus is not suffering. It is not being beaten...it isn't being mistreated...it is NOT the same...not even close!!!

[gadgetlady 4]

compairing and abortion to slavery is ridiculous! The fetus is not suffering. It is not being beaten...it isn't being mistreated...it is NOT the same...not even close!!!

Is it OK to kill someone if we believe they're not suffering (and we may not even be right about that)?

Is it OK to enslave someone if we don't beat them or mistreat them?

Have you ever seen The Silent Scream, documenting a first trimester abortion where the baby is clearly trying to get away from the implements of his or her death? This ultrasound video, which was new technology at the time, caused Dr. Bernard Nathanson (an atheist abortionist who was one of the leaders in legalizing abortion in the 1970's, co-founder of NARAL, and owned the largest abortion chain in the nation) to change his opinion, walk out of his clinic for good, and become pro-life.

I know those in favor of abortion don't like it, but the comparison to slavery is accurate: one group of people defines another group of people as less than human, and subsequently accepts and legalizes any manner of atrocities against the other group.

[rodriguezequal 3]

I have read many articles where it states that the fetus does not feel any pain during an abortion. Some state that the may start registering pain around 25 weeks and if an abortion is done after 20 weeks a lot of the doctors performing them will offer the woman the choice to give the fetus anesthesia. Since most abortions are done suring the first trimester then pain isn't a problem...When I was pregnant with my son everytime they did an ultrasound my son moved as far away from the ultrasound device as possible.

[gadgetlady 4]

I have read many articles where it states that the fetus does not feel any pain during an abortion. Some state that the may start registering pain around 25 weeks and if an abortion is done after 20 weeks a lot of the doctors performing them will offer the woman the choice to give the fetus anesthesia.

And I have read articles that say they feel pain at 8 weeks. The bottom line is, no one knows for sure, and we will probably never know. But it doesn't matter -- it's still not acceptable to kill someone if we don't think they're going to feel it.

[rodriguezequal 3]

Do Fetuses Feel Pain During An Abortion?

It's not the fact that they don't feel pain that makes it okay...it's the fact that it is not the governments place to tell us what to do with our bodies! Period. Your articles are incorrect. The pain receptors haven't even formed by 8 weeks.

[gadgetlady 4]

Do Fetuses Feel Pain During An Abortion?

It's not the fact that they don't feel pain that makes it okay...it's the fact that it is not the governments place to tell us what to do with our bodies! Period. Your articles are incorrect. The pain receptors haven't even formed by 8 weeks.

And I think your articles are incorrect. The bottom line, again, is WE DO NOT KNOW. And IT DOES NOT MATTER. There are a lot of painless ways to kill people from in utero to senior citizens; that doesn't make it right.

The Unborn Child

When can the unborn child feel pain?

By 9 weeks from conception, all the structures necessary for pain sensation are functioning.

A 2005 study published in JAMA and widely reported in the mainstream media claimed that fetuses do not feel pain before the third trimester. However, serious questions have been raised about this study, whose authors include a NARAL activist and an abortionists. This conflict of interest was not disclosed by JAMA.

I'm not the one who brought up pain, so if it has nothing to do with it then why are we discussing it?

[rodriguezequal 3]

Your article is from a prolife website...mine is from niether a pro life nor pro choice site...It was brought up because again you suggested that slavery and abortions are similar...they are not!!! The slaves were already people, people that cry, eat, breath, feel pain, talk, laugh...fetuses are cells that are growing into a person...however they are not yet a full person. Those are two things that cannot be compaired because they are not the same!

[gadgetlady 4]

Your article is from a prolife website...mine is from niether a pro life nor pro choice site.

The website you cited says: "Most scientists believe that pain is experienced in the cortical areas of the brain, which do not develop until the second trimester." That's not a fact. The bottom line is NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE.

It was brought up because again you suggested that slavery and abortions are similar...they are not!!! The slaves were already people, people that cry, eat, breath, feel pain, talk, laugh...fetuses are cells that are growing into a person...however they are not yet a full person.

It was brought up because you said it wasn't an appropriate analogy because slaves were mistreated and felt pain. And I said the presence or absence of mistreatment or pain isn't what makes slavery and abortion acceptable. They are both unacceptable because they deny the basic human rights of life and freedom to the oppressed people.

There are lots of things that older people can do that younger people can't. Toddlers can't reproduce. Pre-teens can't drive. Seniors can't do gymnastics. Heck -- some men can't cry! These activities don't make one a person. We are not granted membership into the human race by what we can or can't do. Disabled people aren't less than human because there are some things they can't do.

There is no such thing as a "full person". Something either is a person or it is not. There's no middle ground.

[rodriguezequal 3]

Can an embryo or fetus feel pain?

spiked-science | Article | So, <I>can</I> a fetus feel pain?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/23/health/23cnd-fetus.html

Unborn babies can feel pain during abortion

Expert Said Fetuses Do Not Feel Pain

None of these sites are pro or anti...they are just doctors and scientists...

[rodriguezequal 3]

A fetus is not yet a person! It is a fetus! Comparing it to slavery is just ridiculous...they are not a like...period. What happened to slaves was torture...long drawn out torture...that is not the case in an abortion.

Edited May 20, 2009 by rodriguezequal

[rodriguezequal 3]

Did you read the whole thing because this is what it said in the conclusion: "...recent studies have shown that the fetus most certainly does feel pain by the end the second trimester, when late-term and partial birth abortions are performed."

[pattygreen 5]

Do Fetuses Feel Pain During An Abortion?

It's not the fact that they don't feel pain that makes it okay...it's the fact that it is not the governments place to tell us what to do with our bodies! Period. Your articles are incorrect. The pain receptors haven't even formed by 8 weeks.

Read the conclusion at the end of your links article. It states that they are uncertain if a baby can feel pain in the first trimester, but it is probable that they do in the second or later trimester. If they aren't sure about the first timester why would anyone even take a chance? Like I said before about being uncertain about life beginning at conception, if they don't know, why take the risk? If in the 2nd and later trimesters the baby can feel pain, who in their right mind could condone such torture to an innocent baby? Even if it were uncertain about the pain aspect of abortion, just knowing that I MAY be causing a baby pain is enough for me to carry it through the 9 months and deliver it. (even if I didn't want it, there are many couples who would)

Also, Rodriguezequal, I'm not trying to force you to believe in my religion or anything I say. Maybe you don't know this about me, but I hate religions.

[pattygreen 5]

I have heard of storys where doctors and nurses have actually 'heard' babies scream during an abortion.