who supports right to choose

[pattygreen 5]

I don't know if IVF is okay with God or not. You are killing a fertilized egg when you toss out the ones you don't use, so I believe that it is wrong if you do that.If you are donating them or use them later, I don't know. On the other hand, I don't know how he feels about married women using another mans sperm to get herself pregnant. These are not spoken of in scripture. I guess God would want us to use our knowledge that we have of life beginning at conception to make a call on it. I feel that throwing away unused fertilized eggs is equal to abortion. This is why I am also against some stem cell research that destroys the fetus.

[gadgetlady 4]

Interesting Gallup poll results released today: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time

[pattygreen 5]

gadgetlady, thank you for posting that link. I found it very interesting.

[rodriguezequal 3]

Yeah but it's not the illegal under all that was highest....it was the legal under certain. The legal under any was still higher than the illegal under all....so if you think about it the vote that raised it was the pro lifes that are partly pro choice if you give them the right circumstance...so if you add up all the legal legal legal ones they far out do the illegal ones....just an observation

[gadgetlady 4]

Yeah but it's not the illegal under all that was highest....it was the legal under certain.

Laws that are pro-life but for the exceptions of rape, incest, and life of the mother? I'll take it.

[rodriguezequal 3]

How can you be 100% pro life but then say it's okay to kill (in your words) a baby if it was conceived after a rape or incest...? Why is that okay with you?

[gadgetlady 4]

How can you be 100% pro life but then say it's okay to kill (in your words) a baby if it was conceived after a rape or incest...? Why is that okay with you?

I didn't say it was okay to kill a baby conceived after rape or incest. I said "I'll take it". In other words, a law that would ban all abortions except for cases of rape, incest, and life of the mother (the common exceptions that were in many states prior to Roe) would be a heck of a lot better than what we have now! It doesn't mean I would change my views about whether or not those abortions were acceptable; it simply means I would be awfully happy with at least reducing which abortions are legal by 98-99%.

[Carrie_C 9]

The problem with that is most rapes go unreported and even with those that are reported, convicting someone of rape is very difficult. So if someone was raped and wanted an abortion, they may not be able to get it if the law was that the rapist had to be found guilty first.

[rodriguezequal 3]

Yeah how would they tell if the person was actually raped and what not? Who would determine who was lying and who was being honest...?

[BJean 16]

The questions you raise truly underscore the reason why this should not be a legal issue. It is a personal issue. It should not be the state's right to tell women what they must do if they become pregnant. It's just so wrong on so many levels.

If it were actually a black and white issue, where there were no variables, no problem areas, it would probably be different. But this is not a simple thing. It is very complicated and it is very, very, very important. People are qualified and able to make these decisions for themselves without government intervention. And they will make these decisions whether the government says they can or not.

[gadgetlady 4]

Yeah how would they tell if the person was actually raped and what not?

My guess would be a judge would look for a paper-trail on the rape, but I don't know because I've never studied the exceptions for rape pre-Roe. Interestingly, with the case of Norma McCorvey, Jane Roe of Roe v Wade (who is now pro-life), the case was brought alleging she was raped. It was later revealed that that was a lie.

Again, it's not my preference that laws be enacted that have an exception for rape, but I would happily take wiping out 98-99% of abortions.

An interesting story relating to the Gallup (and now new Opinion Dynamics poll confirming the Gallup results) in Time magazine (Understanding America's Shift on Abortion - TIME) has the following quote:

"People under 30 are more opposed to abortion than those who are older, perhaps because their first baby pictures were often taken in utero."

Statistics also bear out that when a mother sees her ultrasound or hears the baby's heartbeat, she is dramatically less likely to abort.

[rodriguezequal 3]

right before my friend had her abortion they listened to the heartbeat and they handed her a picture of the fetus before aborting. So...you don't think people may say they were raped and create a paper trail? It is possible. A lot of people would disagree that they'll take it...even when there will still be abortions. Most pro lifers I know want it 100% illegal...just a thought.

[Carrie_C 9]

Did you see where Norma McCorvey was arrested for protesting?

[gadgetlady 4]

right before my friend had her abortion they listened to the heartbeat and they handed her a picture of the fetus before aborting.

I didn't say 100%. I said dramatically less likely.

So...you don't think people may say they were raped and create a paper trail? It is possible. A lot of people would disagree that they'll take it...even when there will still be abortions. Most pro lifers I know want it 100% illegal...just a thought.

Making sure the rape exception has no hitches isn't my concern, because I don't want the exception in there in the first place. However, since the knowledge of the pregnancy occurs several weeks (at least) after intercourse, my guess is that a woman wouldn't go around reporting every instance of consensual sex as a rape just in case she became pregnant.

Yes, there are a lot of pro-lifers who want it 100% illegal -- including me -- but you'd be surprised at how many would be just fine with the exceptions, though. However, the people from both camps would rejoice at reducing the numbers by 98-99%. They rejoiced when partial-birth abortion was banned, so I'm quite sure they'd be awfully happy with 98-99% of abortions being illegal.

[rodriguezequal 3]

I never said that you said it was 100%. A lot of women that are raped don't immediately report the rape either.