who supports right to choose

[gadgetlady 4]

You've always been able to come up with statistics that are jarring [. . .]

You cannot say that a condom didn't work if it wasn't used, not when you are citing FAILURE rate for birth control methods.

As usual, because the statistics say something you don't like, it's my fault.

I'm not a statistician and I didn't perform any of these studies. I'm simply translating what the studies were actually documenting. Bottom line, when you look at the statistics for condom failure, those numbers include non-use as a facet of "failure". I'm sorry if you don't like it, but that's what the numbers are documenting!

You can go commission your own study to determine what percentage of teenaged boys can't figure out how to put a condom on correctly if you want, but it's just plain wrong to take the existing statistics and say the indicate something they don't.

[gadgetlady 4]

Honestly have I ever seemed uncomfortable about something lol I, my dear, am up for any challenge lol

Awesome -- thank you! Once you have the info LMK. I'm going to be out of town for a while starting next weekend, so if I don't respond it doesn't mean I've forgotten about it!

[BJean 16]

Nope you're not a statistician. And we don't need a non-statistician to "translate" anything for us.

If a study of any kind isn't relevant to the discussion at hand, then tossing it out there as if it is has just gotta make you wonder what the motive is.

You should be more concerned with real condom failure rate. You should be demonstrating on street corners on how to properly use a condom if you're so concerned about the abortion numbers.

In fact, birth control methods of all kinds should be more out in the open with full disclosure of side effects and failure rates. (And it doesn't take the mentality of a teenager to understand that if he doesn't use a condom, it won't work.)

And by the way, since you're so harpy on this topic, I've known for nearly my entire adulthood how our ob/gyns gathers data on birth control "failures." I know that there is a classification for failure rates based simply on what the couple's normal choice of birth control is, whether they used it properly or not. There is also a classification of failure rates when birth control was thought to have been properly used. As in whether the IUD was in place as it should have been, if the patch had fallen off, if a pill has been missed, etc. Which is what is relevant when sex education information, including the various birth control methods, is being assessed for composing a cirriculum.

[BJean 16]

Please be careful rodriguez! As we all know, people can be very passionate when it comes to this topic.

You feeling physically okay today?

[gadgetlady 4]

Nope you're not a statistician. And we don't need a non-statistician to "translate" anything for us.

You do if you're citing statistics inaccurately.

If a study of any kind isn't relevant to the discussion at hand, then tossing it out there as if it is has just gotta make you wonder what the motive is.

LOL! You're the one who was talking about birth control failure rates, and I pointed out that "failure rates" as understood statistically include non-use. I had no motive other than proper understanding of the facts.

All I'm saying is that when you are talking about statistics for anything, you need to know and disclose what exactly those numbers mean. As I said earlier, it's like including the incidence of (consensual) statutory rape in with rape statistics -- it artificially inflates the numbers, making what most people consider "true" rape numbers seem higher than they are. Am I involved in a conspiracy to discount rape? Or to devalue what the victims go through? Of course not -- I am simply pointing out the truth about what the numbers represent. Same with birth control failure rates.

[BJean 16]

Guess misunderstandings are to be expected when people are at loggerheads. There's no way out of this discussion because we're talking apples and oranges and you really don't care.

Whatever.

[rodriguezequal 3]

Please be careful rodriguez! As we all know, people can be very passionate when it comes to this topic.

You feeling physically okay today?

I'm feelin...okay I guess. I went in today and they said the miscarraige was a complete one so they don't need to do a D and C...which is good I guess...Emotionally I am still aching.

[pattygreen 5]

rodriguezequal. So sorry to learn of the loss of your baby. I will pray that God will give you peace about it. My heart goes out to you. sincerely, patty

[rodriguezequal 3]

Thank you, Patty. I really apreciate it. So just curious (to anyone, not just Patty)...why is itn't it okay for a woman to abort a baby that has physical problems, but it's okay for "God" to do it?

[gadgetlady 4]

So just curious (to anyone, not just Patty)...why is itn't it okay for a woman to abort a baby that has physical problems, but it's okay for "God" to do it?

Why isn't it OK for a man to shoot his neighbor but it's OK for God to "kill" him with a heart attack?

[pattygreen 5]

Thank you, Patty. I really apreciate it. So just curious (to anyone, not just Patty)...why is itn't it okay for a woman to abort a baby that has physical problems, but it's okay for "God" to do it?

It is hard for us to understand, but I will try to answer what I believe and from what I've learned about God. God is the author of all life. He is the potter and we are the clay. He has the right to decide which souls he will have live on earth and which souls he will have live in Heaven with him. All babies and children are saved and go directly to God when they die. It isn't until a child or young adult is old enough to understand and reason within himself that there is a God, that he becomes accountable for the destiny of his own soul. Before that time, if he dies, he enters Heaven.

With God, there is no 'time' like there is with humans. With God, all things are eternal. He doesn't see life coming to an end as we do, for all he sees is a change of destination. When he allowed your baby to enter into heaven, he saw it as a wonderful blessing for your baby, even though he knows that sometimes we humans don't understand that. We grieve at the loss of those we love, so for us death is traumatic. But for God, death is just a doorway into his home for all those he created. The difference between God making that choice for a life and us making that choice by abortion is that God has the right to make it, and we don't. He has a plan for every soul individually. A baby that has physical problems when born brings 'something' to this world. Whether it be joy for his parents, tollerence for those who lack compassion or patience for those who may be close to him or her. We are all needed, whether free from illness and physical problems or not free from them.

Again, I am sorry for your loss, but if it's any consolation, any at all, your baby is in God's presence and to be there is a beautiful thing. My love to you. Patty

[rodriguezequal 3]

Why isn't it OK for a man to shoot his neighbor but it's OK for God to "kill" him with a heart attack?

Both of the things I asked about were an abortion...if you would have asked why is it not okay for a man to shoot his neighbor but ok for God to shoot him....

[rodriguezequal 3]

If death is the doorway to "God" then he shouldn't care what brings us to his doorway, but rather what keeps us from it. "A mother is God in the eyes of a child"...I think I have the right to decide what happens to my fetus just like "God' has the right to decide what happens to his children...?

[gadgetlady 4]

Both of the things I asked about were an abortion...if you would have asked why is it not okay for a man to shoot his neighbor but ok for God to shoot him....

One is a forced death and the other is a "natural" death. Abortion is the deliberate killing of one human being by another. All people eventually die, so their death is either "natural", i.e. by God, or "unnatural", i.e. by man - whether by accident or deliberate. To ask why God allows people to die is another question all together. But to say that because some unborn children die by natural causes, therefore it is acceptable to kill them unnaturally is the same as saying because all people die eventually it is acceptable to kill them whenever we want. Hence the shooting your neighbor analogy.

[gadgetlady 4]

It is hard for us to understand, but I will try to answer what I believe and from what I've learned about God. God is the author of all life. He is the potter and we are the clay. He has the right to decide which souls he will have live on earth and which souls he will have live in Heaven with him. All babies and children are saved and go directly to God when they die. It isn't until a child or young adult is old enough to understand and reason within himself that there is a God, that he becomes accountable for the destiny of his own soul. Before that time, if he dies, he enters Heaven.

With God, there is no 'time' like there is with humans. With God, all things are eternal. He doesn't see life coming to an end as we do, for all he sees is a change of destination. When he allowed your baby to enter into heaven, he saw it as a wonderful blessing for your baby, even though he knows that sometimes we humans don't understand that. We grieve at the loss of those we love, so for us death is traumatic. But for God, death is just a doorway into his home for all those he created. The difference between God making that choice for a life and us making that choice by abortion is that God has the right to make it, and we don't. He has a plan for every soul individually. A baby that has physical problems when born brings 'something' to this world. Whether it be joy for his parents, tollerence for those who lack compassion or patience for those who may be close to him or her. We are all needed, whether free from illness and physical problems or not free from them.

Again, I am sorry for your loss, but if it's any consolation, any at all, your baby is in God's presence and to be there is a beautiful thing. My love to you. Patty

That was beautifully written, Patty. In retrospect, what I said was a bit calloused and for that, rodriguezequal, I'm sorry.