who supports right to choose

[gadgetlady 4]

I don't really think about it as ignorant, I just think it is a little silly.

The "ignorant" comment was BJean's: "Only after the first abortion did she ignorantly choose to have unprotected sex"

As to her actions, I don't see them as silly at all. She is trying desperately to get closure, and her husband loves her and supports her.

Many years ago, I had a friend who had a miscarriage. She was devastated. She decided to have a memorial service at her church, and the congregation was invited to mourn with her. You would not have believed the number of mothers there, mourning themselves over babies they had lost (miscarried and/or aborted) from years and years past. The pain in that room was both audible and palpable.

Losing a child can be a very painful thing, regardless of whether it is a "natural" loss (miscarriage) or an "intended" one (abortion). Sometimes it takes these mothers some time -- even decades -- to process the pain, but the pain is nevertheless very real. And what makes it even worse is people denigrate them, tell them to "just get over it", tell them they're ridiculous for feeling pain, and so forth. Very few people honor their intense feelings, and so they bury these feelings further and fall into further pain.

We all need different procedures to process our grief. Thankfully, this mother had the support of her loved ones. She is a real person and her grief is real, and I don't think she should be belittled for what she feels.

[Carrie_C 9]

I have had a miscarriage also, but I didn't feel so much grief. I was planning an abortion, so I felt more relieved than anything. But everyone reacts differently.

[BJean 16]

gadget I was NOT belittling her grief over having an abortion!

I was definitely calling her behavior ignorant - although I was not calling her ignorant!

The way her story is being used is certainly not ignorant - it is typical of the way the anti-choice movement chooses to spread their propaganda. No different than using slavery in their desperate attempts to pull people into their way of thinking.

And if you understand the definition of ignorance, you must agree that her behavior showed that she was definitely ignorant of many things.

[DownInSocal 12]

I was interested to hear Sarah Palin's comments at a recent speech, discussing when she found out her unborn son was disabled:

“There just for a fleeting moment I thought, I knew, nobody knows me here. Nobody would ever know. I thought, wow, it is easy. It could be easy to think maybe of trying to change the circumstances. No one would know. No one would ever know," she said.

Ultimately, she told the audience it was time to "walk the walk" concerning her pro-life views.

It's a refreshing bit of honesty and reality from a politician.

Actually it was a lie or she was lying when she stated in an earlier interview she never considered abortion. With her you never are really sure which is the truth.

[gadgetlady 4]

gadget I was NOT belittling her grief over having an abortion!

I was definitely calling her behavior ignorant - although I was not calling her ignorant!

The way her story is being used is certainly not ignorant - it is typical of the way the anti-choice movement chooses to spread their propaganda. No different than using slavery in their desperate attempts to pull people into their way of thinking.

And if you understand the definition of ignorance, you must agree that her behavior showed that she was definitely ignorant of many things.

I don't believe she had an agenda other than her own personal healing. That she took an unusual route to that healing is her choice, isn't it? To presume it was a pro-life "stunt" belittles her pain.

[gadgetlady 4]

Actually it was a lie or she was lying when she stated in an earlier interview she never considered abortion.

I think there's a difference between a short, fleeting thought about having an abortion (which is as she describes what happened), and actually giving it serious consideration. I don't see a broad "she didn't consider abortion" statement and her description of her thought process as mutually exclusive. But if you choose to believe her a liar, that's what you'll believe. Speaking of liars, I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is. :thumbup:

[DownInSocal 12]

I think there's a difference between a short, fleeting thought about having an abortion (which is as she describes what happened), and actually giving it serious consideration. I don't see a broad "she didn't consider abortion" statement and her description of her thought process as mutually exclusive. But if you choose to believe her a liar, that's what you'll believe. Speaking of liars, I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is. :cool2:

What does Bill Clinton have to do with Palin's abortion thoughts? That is a really strange analogy.

Anyway I don't choose to believe anything. It seems pretty clear to me. She said she never considered abortion and then states later she did consider it for a moment. I don't care either way what Palin considered or didn't consider for her personal healthcare decision but if she is going to talk about it at least be honest. She seems to change the truth depending on the audience she has. Either you considered it or you didn't. I don't see a middle ground there.

[BJean 16]

Beth: "To presume it was a pro-life "stunt" belittles her pain."

Well going through the pain is one thing. Using an experience like that, putting it out there in that way, is a stunt and THAT belittles her pain and her experience as far as I am concerned. The truth of the situation, what actually happened over time was one thing and choosing to use it to work an different agenda is another.

It's like Sarah Palin talking out both sides of her mouth in a way. She says one thing when it suits her agenda, but says something different when it suits a different agenda that she's working at a different time.

[pattygreen 5]

The Case Against Abortihttp://searchwarp.com/swa385278.htmon: Medical Testimony also see this post as well

Edited May 6, 2009 by pattygreen

[pattygreen 5]

Louise Joy Brown:Human Life Begins at the Beginning by Jane Bullard OpineBooks.com

[gadgetlady 4]

What does Bill Clinton have to do with Palin's abortion thoughts? That is a really strange analogy.

It was a joke. The whole thing revolves around the word "consider", so I guess what I'm trying to say is it's all about what you consider the word "consider" to mean.

For example, for want of a better analogy, have I ever "considered" suicide? Well, that's a tricky question. Has the fleeting thought every crossed my mind? Sure it has, and likely everyone else as well. Something along the lines of, "Hmmm. I wonder what would happen if I didn't hit the brakes right now." Does that mean I've considered suicide? I would say no, because it's never been a serious option. Giving something consideration is different from having a fleeting thought that you quickly dismiss. I suppose the same could be said of a lot of people about having an affair, or, for that matter, also having an abortion. It's all in how you define "consider." So again, I don't see any inconsistency in what she's said. But if you define "consider" in the same vein as "fleeting thought", then yes, I can see why you would consider what she said to be a lie.

[gadgetlady 4]

Beth: "To presume it was a pro-life "stunt" belittles her pain."

Well going through the pain is one thing. Using an experience like that, putting it out there in that way, is a stunt and THAT belittles her pain and her experience as far as I am concerned.

We don't know the route by which her story became public. Maybe she had nothing to do with it. Maybe someone else revealed it on her behalf, and a news outlet picked up on it. Maybe she allowed it to happen because she thought her story might also help someone else struggling with the same pain. Maybe the attention given to her unborn child, attention that anonymous child had never gotten before, allowed her a modicum of comfort. We don't know, and I don't presume to judge her.

I heard an incredible story today, which the person telling presented as true. I don't remember the name of the teller, but it went something like this: a man gets on a subway, and a father with kids gets on as well. The kids are making a lot of noise and disturbing everyone, but the father doesn't seem to notice. He is sitting in his seat, eyes closed, head back, seemingly uncaring. People around him are annoyed by the behavior of the children. Finally, the man suggests to the father that he get his children under control. He "awakens" out of his trance, surveys the situation, and says thoughtfully, "Yeah, I guess they are bothering some people." The man is outraged that he is so uncaring, until the father says, "We just came from the hospital. Their mother died today. I guess I don't know how to deal with it and they don't either, so they're just acting in a way to forget the pain."

We don't always know why people do what they do.

[gadgetlady 4]

Louise Joy Brown:Human Life Begins at the Beginning by Jane Bullard OpineBooks.com

That was an AWESOME link, pattygreen! I couldn't open the other one (blocked by my firewall), but this one was great. I skimmed it the first time with a "ho hum" attitude, but when I went back and really read it, it is indeed profound. Thank you for posting it.

[BJean 16]

Actually gadget, the word "never" is the operative word that makes Palin a liar - not the word "consider." Nice try at a deflection though.

[DownInSocal 12]

It was a joke. The whole thing revolves around the word "consider", so I guess what I'm trying to say is it's all about what you consider the word "consider" to mean.

For example, for want of a better analogy, have I ever "considered" suicide? Well, that's a tricky question. Has the fleeting thought every crossed my mind? Sure it has, and likely everyone else as well. Something along the lines of, "Hmmm. I wonder what would happen if I didn't hit the brakes right now." Does that mean I've considered suicide? I would say no, because it's never been a serious option. Giving something consideration is different from having a fleeting thought that you quickly dismiss. I suppose the same could be said of a lot of people about having an affair, or, for that matter, also having an abortion. It's all in how you define "consider." So again, I don't see any inconsistency in what she's said. But if you define "consider" in the same vein as "fleeting thought", then yes, I can see why you would consider what she said to be a lie.

For me the truth is not such a gray area, you either did or did not. If someone asked me if I had ever considered suicide my answer would be yes in the above senario. I might follow it up with it was a fleeting thought and I would never do it but yeah it has flashed in my mind.

For some though the truth can be moved to any direction that suits them at the time. I do see your point and have respect for you (really I do) arguing her meaning of consider is just blindly supporting Palin. But I am sure no one wants this thread to be the Palin show. We already have that with her daughter and baby daddy on Good Morning America all the time.