who supports right to choose

[BJean 16]

Patty sez: "The main focus is on the embryo more so than the mother simply because the embryo can not defend himself and the mother is the one who is doing the deed." (Emphasis mine)

After all you have read here, you still can't understand that a pregnancy is not always because the mother chose to have sex?

An embryo is what it is. There is nothing to learn that would change people's minds who believe in a woman's right to choose. We actually KNOW what a fertilized egg is. We are not bringing up a question about it or debating it because we are unsure of what a fertilized egg is.

Anti-choice folks are making a claim that an embryo is a living, breathing human being with all the rights of a fully developed person. All of science and medicine tells us exactly what a fertilized egg is. And it is not a separate human being.

What you're talking about is your belief that a fertilized egg, or an embryo, should have the right to stay in a woman's womb (or that a fertilized egg should be allowed to continue its' development with no interference from the woman) until the baby is delivered after it is fully developed.

I respect your right to believe that if you choose to. I am not suggesting that anyone should have an abortion. I'm suggesting that it is not you who should decide whether a woman can terminate a pregnancy or not. Your beliefs are different than many other women's (and men's). Everyone has every right to their own beliefs and everything in medicine and science and mother nature tells us that a woman has the right to determine whether she will be a mother or not.

Today's woman didn't invent abortion. And she didn't invent birth control. Those things were invented thousands of years ago. And they were invented for many very, very good reasons.

[pattygreen 5]

Patty sez: "The main focus is on the embryo more so than the mother simply because the embryo can not defend himself and the mother is the one who is doing the deed." (Emphasis mine)

After all you have read here, you still can't understand that a pregnancy is not always because the mother chose to have sex?

I certainly do understand that, but it still doesn't make a difference HOW the baby came into being. Once it did, it's done. The life has begun and noone has a right to snuff it out just because they didn't ask for it, don't want it, it's deformed, or it doesn't fit into mom's plans or for any other reason.

An embryo is what it is. There is nothing to learn that would change people's minds who believe in a woman's right to choose. We actually KNOW what a fertilized egg is. We are not bringing up a question about it or debating it because we are unsure of what a fertilized egg is.

Anti-choice folks are making a claim that an embryo is a living, breathing human being with all the rights of a fully developed person. All of science and medicine tells us exactly what a fertilized egg is. And it is not a separate human being.

Living, yes. Breathing, no. Rights, yes.

Science once told us that the earth was flat, but that was certainly untrue. Scientists are not always right. God tells us that an unborn baby should not be killed. I believe what he says. BTW, Science has not proven that life does not begin at conception.

What you're talking about is your belief that a fertilized egg, or an embryo, should have the right to stay in a woman's womb (or that a fertilized egg should be allowed to continue its' development with no interference from the woman) until the baby is delivered after it is fully developed.

Yes.

I respect your right to believe that if you choose to. I am not suggesting that anyone should have an abortion. I'm suggesting that it is not you who should decide whether a woman can terminate a pregnancy or not.

Obviously I can't decide that. For if I could, you know what the law would be. I know that.

Your beliefs are different than many other women's (and men's). Everyone has every right to their own beliefs and everything in medicine and science and mother nature tells us that a woman has the right to determine whether she will be a mother or not.

Today's woman didn't invent abortion. And she didn't invent birth control. Those things were invented thousands of years ago. And they were invented for many very, very good reasons.

Whether it was invented today or in the beginning of time, what does that matter. Either way it's still not right to me.

[BJean 16]

Yes, I get that you believe that it isn't right.

Science tells us that a fertilized egg does consist of living cells. Living cells represent life. But a few cells, living or not, are not a human being and they do not have all the rights and privileges that a human being has. That would be an implausible and impracticable scenario.

You and I differ on two very important counts: 1) That God has decreed that every fertilized egg must come to fruition and 2) it does not matter what the circumstances are when a sperm penetrates an egg.

Oh, and most importantly 3) that every woman has the right to make her own decisions when it comes to her reproductive organs.

[pattygreen 5]

bjean, they are very important counts, as you say, and unless we agree upon them, we shall always be in opposition where abortion and choice is concerned. So, now we see how the debate can never be resolved in society. Pro choicers and anti-abortionists will never see eye to eye and come to an agreement concerning laws in this country. Since laws are made by humans with differing views on when life actually begins, and since there could be either view in office at any time, I think that every woman needs to consider what their own conscience speaks to them, and do accordingly. I can only hope to convey the message that every individual life is worthy of respect, despite how it came into being. Because I feel strongly that life begins at conception, I will continue to share my views with those considering abortion, for the babys sake. God bless.

[BJean 16]

Yes, yes, yes. You're absolutely right. Since our beliefs are on opposite ends of the spectrum, we will never agree on this issue.

That is why I totally agree with your statement below:

"...I think that every woman needs to consider what their own conscience speaks to them, and do accordingly."

With that one statement you have encapsulated the pro-choice position perfectly. Because the ONLY way every woman can consider with their own conscience what they should do, is if they are allowed, by law, to do so.

Furthermore, I respect your beliefs and the feelings you expressed in your statement when you said:

"I can only hope to convey the message that every individual life is worthy of respect, despite how it came into being. Because I feel strongly that life begins at conception, I will continue to share my views with those considering abortion, for the babys sake."

And I am glad that you are free to do that at each and every opportunity you have.

This has been a good dialogue. I believe that we actually have come to an understanding here, patty.

[pattygreen 5]

bjean, let me just add that if I could do my part to make it a law to abolish all abortion, I would. I would prefer it to be illegal. You understand that, right?

[green 6]

bjean, let me just add that if I could do my part to make it a law to abolish all abortion, I would. I would prefer it to be illegal. You understand that, right?

Lemmee just add that if I were an abortion doc, I would be south of the border handing out free abortions with my handy-dandy foetus vaccuum cleaner fighting the self-righteous fanatics like Battygreen all the way.

[pattygreen 5]

Lemmee just add that if I were an abortion doc, I would be south of the border handing out free abortions with my handy-dandy foetus vaccuum cleaner fighting the self-righteous fanatics like Battygreen all the way.

WOW! You don't even know how pathetic you sound!

(need a little self esteem counseling?)

[green 6]

Oh, you sound pathetic what with your mistakes in spelling and grammar and your persistent ignorant self-congratulatory attitude and your belief in your Sky-Daddy. You sound ill-educated and not in control of your facts. Do read The Economist, for God sakes, not just the Bible!

[rodriguezequal 3]

I just read yesturday that 90% of women who find out their baby will have Downs, abort the fetus. Just thought I would throw that out there.

[pattygreen 5]

Oh, you sound pathetic what with your mistakes in spelling and grammar and your persistent ignorant self-congratulatory attitude and your belief in your Sky-Daddy. You sound ill-educated and not in control of your facts. Do read The Economist, for God sakes, not just the Bible!

BTW, It's for Gods sake, not God sakes. And Fetus is also spelled F.E.T.U.S. Did you want me to use spell check? Maybe you could understand what I'm saying better if I did.

[BJean 16]

The word spellings you refer to Patty are different in different countries.

And yes, I certainly understand why you think it is righteous and wonderful to take away women's rights to make their own medical decisions with regard to their reproductive organs.

But I was commending you on that portion of your post where you appear to understand that women can and must do what their conscience and their circumstances tell them to do. Women are quite willing, as are most people, to answer to their own higher power for their actions, rather than answering to yours or some other person who feels they are religiously superior.

[green 6]

Foetus is the British way of spelling fetus. The word comes from the Greek. I am Canadian with British parents, and Canadians tend to favour the British spelling, thus I tend to favour it, too. Thanks, though, for your corrections. I sure do appreciate.

[green 6]

I just read yesturday that 90% of women who find out their baby will have Downs, abort the fetus. Just thought I would throw that out there.

My sister-in-law who happens to be visiting and I were discussing this very matter, now that you have raised the issue, and we both believe that we would have abortions on the understanding that our babies would have Down's Syndrome.

Sadly, this society is not equipped to deal with challenged children and therefore, the burden will rest on the family. The problem arises when the family is gone. I have known many elderly people with perfectly charming challenged adult children who were justifiably concerned about their own mortality.

[Carrie_C 9]

I just read yesturday that 90% of women who find out their baby will have Downs, abort the fetus. Just thought I would throw that out there.

I think I would have to agree, if I found out my baby would have Downs, I would probably abort as well. Some people just can't handle things like that. There is a lot of mental illness in my family and that is one reason I don't want kids. If I were to find out something was wrong before I delivered, I would want to abort. I don't think it is right to judge women who abort for those reasons. It is no different than a woman aborting a healthy fetus just because she doesn't want it.