who supports right to choose

[green 6]

Thanks, Gadget, for your generous words. As it happens, I do get along well with children. It is kinda ironic, eh?

[green 6]

Pattygreen, you are one of the most irritating presences on this forum what with your rabbiting on about God and what you think you know about Him. Do you have any friends at all other than the Trinity???? Are you not afraid of driving people in the other direction? and alienating them from what you believe in?

[coltonwade 27]

You guys are going gangbusters today and I don't have time to respond to everything, but I do want to respond to this because I hear your anger and you deserve to understand my reasoning.

Imagine you are trapped in a very scary room. There are two doors. One is locked. The other one opens up to a forest that looks very intimidating and, while you know you can get through it, it's a very long path and you know it will be scary and possibly painful to make it the entire way through. There is a gun in the room, and you can shoot the lock on the other door and make it out to the open easily. A voice tells you there is someone behind the door, and if you shoot the lock you will kill them.

If you choose to shoot the lock and kill the person behind it, it is murder; you had another choice, albeit painful, and you chose the option that you knew would take someone's life.

But now imagine the voice tells you you can shoot through the lock and there's something behind the door, but it's not a person. You choose to shoot and find out later that it really was a person behind the door. You have killed them, but is it murder?

I believe the abortionist is a murderer because he knows exactly what he's doing; he sees the body parts coming out of his "patients" every day. But I believe mothers who are scared and desperate and have been told a variety of things about the unborn are not murderers by definition because they had been convinced prior to the abortion (and often remain convinced afterwards) that the life they took was not that of a baby.

I hope that explains my position on this. I emphatically do not consider anyone on this board who has had an abortion a murderer.

green, I just want to say one thing to you: I think your mother did you a tremendous disservice, and I'm sorry for what you went through as a child. I think you would have made an awesome mother.

Why does Green HAVE to have been a mother ?

She know's now she did not want ot be a mother . Not every woman has to be a mother . I admire green for recognizing that , Green is an amazing woman . But she does not HAVE to be a mother to be a complete woman !!!

Mindy

[coltonwade 27]

Pattygreen, you are one of the most irritating presences on this forum what with your rabbiting on about God and what you think you know about Him. Do you have any friends at all other than the Trinity???? Are you not afraid of driving people in the other direction? and alienating them from what you believe in?

She does not care. And that's the problem i have with extremists like her. They dont care about getting their "message" out as long as THEY are right. Its like i said before its people like this that get people like me to run like HELL the other way . Or as Green might say RUN TO HELL !! LOL

Mindy

[gadgetlady 4]

Thanks, Gadget, for your generous words. As it happens, I do get along well with children. It is kinda ironic, eh?

Not at all. I have an aunt who is terrified of babies, but she is a great mother. For the first year or two of her kids' lives, she let my uncle do everything,, from feeding them to changing diapers to getting up in the middle of the night to take care of them. When I had my kids, she refused to hold them until they were about 2 or 3 (I think she was afraid of dropping them). Yet, growing up, I absolutely loved her. She is a great person. She is a math professor, very logical, very intellectual, but also very nurturing -- just not to babies! Not that I know you that well, but you remind me of her.

There are all sorts of specialties that we all have. Some women "appear" to be more maternal than others, but in reality every skill that we have can lend knowledge to children. There is just as much benefit received from the "traditional" mother (cooking, sewing, baking Cookies after school, etc.) as there is from the "non-traditional" mother who doesn't have those skills.

[gadgetlady 4]

Why does Green HAVE to have been a mother ?

She know's now she did not want ot be a mother . Not every woman has to be a mother . I admire green for recognizing that , Green is an amazing woman . But she does not HAVE to be a mother to be a complete woman !!!

Where the heck are you getting that from? I never said a woman had to be a mother to be a complete woman, and I certainly don't think green read/heard it that way. Please stop reading such venom, hatred, judgment, and disdain into my words. I'm not putting them in there. I know you're angry, but please try to calm down before dissecting what I say and reading things into it.

And, btw, I think what green went through prior to her abortion, not being able to find any doctor to sterilize her, was unconscionable and criminal (she knows this -- I've said it before). If she knew she didn't want to ever be a mother, they should have honored that choice and allowed her to never have to be put in the position where she became one.

[coltonwade 27]

You guys are going gangbusters today and I don't have time to respond to everything, but I do want to respond to this because I hear your anger and you deserve to understand my reasoning.

Imagine you are trapped in a very scary room. There are two doors. One is locked. The other one opens up to a forest that looks very intimidating and, while you know you can get through it, it's a very long path and you know it will be scary and possibly painful to make it the entire way through. There is a gun in the room, and you can shoot the lock on the other door and make it out to the open easily. A voice tells you there is someone behind the door, and if you shoot the lock you will kill them.

If you choose to shoot the lock and kill the person behind it, it is murder; you had another choice, albeit painful, and you chose the option that you knew would take someone's life.

But now imagine the voice tells you you can shoot through the lock and there's something behind the door, but it's not a person. You choose to shoot and find out later that it really was a person behind the door. You have killed them, but is it murder?

I believe the abortionist is a murderer because he knows exactly what he's doing; he sees the body parts coming out of his "patients" every day. But I believe mothers who are scared and desperate and have been told a variety of things about the unborn are not murderers by definition because they had been convinced prior to the abortion (and often remain convinced afterwards) that the life they took was not that of a baby.

I hope that explains my position on this. I emphatically do not consider anyone on this board who has had an abortion a murderer.

green, I just want to say one thing to you: I think your mother did you a tremendous disservice, and I'm sorry for what you went through as a child. I think you would have made an awesome mother.

I wont sit here and do hypothetical anymore. Its ridiculous.

You can sit here and tip toe around it all you want , weather you want to admit it or not . In a round about way you are calling someone who has an abortion a murderer. You cant call the abortion doc and the clinic murderers and not call ther woman one too . So either admit that is the case to yourself and that's how you really feel or admit that is NOT the case, You cant have it both ways.

I walked past 30 people holding picket signs calling me a murderer when i had my abortion . Cause that was how they felt. At least they clearly stated thats how they felt.

There is no anger. Only frustration and sickness for people who sit here day after day and say " I do not judge: But for what ever reason do not see they do .

Only anger for people who hide behind a bible to spew their disgust and anger for people . You cant have it both ways .

Im not speakign specifically about you .

But your either " a non judgmental god loving person " or your not . You cant have it both ways. Dont sit here and say " I dont judge you " and then in a "nice" way call someone a murderer . doesnt work that way !

Mindy

[coltonwade 27]

Where the heck are you getting that from? I never said a woman had to be a mother to be a complete woman, and I certainly don't think green read/heard it that way. Please stop reading such venom, hatred, judgment, and disdain into my words. I'm not putting them in there. I know you're angry, but please try to calm down before dissecting what I say and reading things into it.

And, btw, I think what green went through prior to her abortion, not being able to find any doctor to sterilize her, was unconscionable and criminal (she knows this -- I've said it before). If she knew she didn't want to ever be a mother, they should have honored that choice and allowed her to never have to be put in the position where she became one.

I dont know where you get im angry I am not .

If i mis read what you wrote I am sorry . Most people have the stance that you have to have children to be a "real" woman . I thought that is what you meant.

I agree, I think if a woman wants her tubes tied they should be able to make that choice. I had a male doctor at age 24 after i had my second child . My doc would not tie my tubes he said i was too young and had not been married long enough to " make that choice" WTF ? I think i know if i do not want anymore kids. at 24 I had 2 .

So my husband had his done before i had my surgery . IF a woman know's she does not want kids period she should be able to make that choice at any age really

Mindy

[green 6]

I am an atheist but if I am wrong and there is a God I am going to mention Battygreen's name and tell him that it was all her fault. Har.

[gadgetlady 4]

I wont sit here and do hypothetical anymore. Its ridiculous.

You can sit here and tip toe around it all you want , weather you want to admit it or not . In a round about way you are calling someone who has an abortion a murderer. You cant call the abortion doc and the clinic murderers and not call ther woman one too . So either admit that is the case to yourself and that's how you really feel or admit that is NOT the case, You cant have it both ways.

I walked past 30 people holding picket signs calling me a murderer when i had my abortion . Cause that was how they felt. At least they clearly stated thats how they felt.

There is no anger. Only frustration and sickness for people who sit here day after day and say " I do not judge: But for what ever reason do not see they do .

Only anger for people who hide behind a bible to spew their disgust and anger for people . You cant have it both ways .

Im not speakign specifically about you .

But your either " a non judgmental god loving person " or your not . You cant have it both ways. Dont sit here and say " I dont judge you " and then in a "nice" way call someone a murderer . doesnt work that way !

Mindy

Mindy, there's a difference between murder and manslaughter. There's a difference between murder and killing. That's what my analogy was attempting to demonstrate. I do not have disgust or disdain for mothers who choose abortion. It's just not who I am. You can choose to see me as judgmental and that's your deal, but I know a lot of mothers who have chosen abortion IRL and not a single one of them views me that way. At all, hands down. Including the ones that I tried to talk out of abortion but they did it anyway. I know you are offended and upset and angry, but don't assume you know my heart.

[coltonwade 27]

Mindy, there's a difference between murder and manslaughter. There's a difference between murder and killing. That's what my analogy was attempting to demonstrate. I do not have disgust or disdain for mothers who choose abortion. It's just not who I am. You can choose to see me as judgmental and that's your deal, but I know a lot of mothers who have chosen abortion IRL and not a single one of them views me that way. At all, hands down. Including the ones that I tried to talk out of abortion but they did it anyway. I know you are offended and upset and angry, but don't assume you know my heart.

Well I dont see it as killing anything.

I see it as ending a pregnancy period.

I am not angry , upset or offended maybe.

I'll just leave it at that

Mindy

[gadgetlady 4]

As I said, I don't have time for this today. Have fun, everyone. I'll be back later and will try to respond to as much as I can and/or is relevant.

[green 6]

I really adored sex and tried to have my tubes tied but the docs all refused to do it. They said that I was young and that I might just change my mind. It was very frustrating. I have only met one woman from my era who was successful at getting hers tied. She told them that she was a drug addict and didn't want any kids and that she needed them tied. The drug addiction thing was a lie. It didn't occur to me to lie. Silly me.

[green 6]

I always knew that I never wanted to have children when I grew up and I wasn't too sure whether I wanted to be tied down to one man, either. Marriage didn't interest me a lot. I wasn't too impressed by what I saw of my parents' marriage. It looked like my dad had all the freedom and the respect in that arrangement.

So I did end up getting married and divorced while still in my early to middle 20s. After that I had a lot of different guys and that was really fun! I knew that I wanted to travel and see the world and I did get to do that.

Now I am settled down (for over 20 years) in a common-law arrangement with a great guy who treats me like gold and who has nursed me through my bout with cancer and my various bouts with depression. I was very lucky. My life has been both good to me and very interesting. This grrl has no regrets. I know that if I had had that child life would have been quite different. It would have been necessary to supply the stability which I wasn't up for in order to do right by that child. Having a child sure is a responsibility.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

The morning after pill is one. Also, After i had one of my children, and before I left the hospital, I agreed to having a depro privera shot. This shot is good for 3 months of protection against pregnancy. AFTER I already had the shot, I questioned the doc about how it controls births, and found out that if the sperm met the egg, and formed a baby, as it moved to the tubes, it would be come washed out of the cervix. Needless to say, that was the longest 3 months for both my husband and I, for we did not have sex for fear of killing a life that might have begun.

Depo-Provera

What is Depo-Provera?

Depo-Provera is a long-acting progestin (hormone) form of birth control. It is injected into the muscle every 11 weeks. It is effective 24 hours after your first injection if given in the first 5 days of a normal menstrual period. You will need to receive your injection promptly every 11 weeks in order to continue your contraceptive protection.

How does it work to prevent pregnancy?

It inhibits the secretion of hormones that stimulate the ovaries. This prevents ovulation. It also thickens your cervical mucus to prevent the entrance of sperm into the uterus.

So, nothing about washing a baby out of the cervix. It prevents ovulation. Plus, fertilization takes place in the uterus not the fallopian tubes unless it's an ectopic pregnancy. This is how so much misinformation gets passed on.