who supports right to choose

[gadgetlady 4]

Ready to bail yet Carrie? I sure am. Maybe they can talk amongst themselves. They don't accept anything we tell them.

I thought we were having a quite civil discussion. Why would Carrie want to "bail"? Do you want to answer some of the questions posed? I'd be interested to hear your answers as well.

[pattygreen 5]

I read in the paper today that the Pope told Nancy Pelosi (a Catholic) that Catholic politicians have a duty to protect life "at all stages of it's development." Even though there are so many things that I disagree with the catholic denomination about, I can see that they know God's stand on this issue and I give them credit for taking a stand on it.

[pattygreen 5]

Carrie and Bjean, even if you don't believe that God disapproves of abortion, would you believe science supports that an unborn baby is just as much an independent human being as you are? The original human cell consists of 46 chromosomes, 23 from each parent. At no point during the pregnancy does the mother contribute any new cells to the child. The original cell divides itself and multiplies to provide development and growth to the child. Scientifically speaking, the child is just as dependent at 6 months before birth as he will be 6 months after birth. Yes, the mom provides nourishment to the unborn child, but she also provides nourishment for the newly born child.

[coltonwade 27]

Carrie and Bjean, even if you don't believe that God disapproves of abortion, would you believe science supports that an unborn baby is just as much an independent human being as you are? The original human cell consists of 46 chromosomes, 23 from each parent. At no point during the pregnancy does the mother contribute any new cells to the child. The original cell divides itself and multiplies to provide development and growth to the child. Scientifically speaking, the child is just as dependent at 6 months before birth as he will be 6 months after birth. Yes, the mom provides nourishment to the unborn child, but she also provides nourishment for the newly born child.

So your saying a 3 month old fetus is "Independent" therefore does not need the mother to survive ?

The child is NOT just as independent 6 months before birth as it is 6 months after birth . How do you think that is possible ?

A Viable fetus is not even condisered until around 22-24 weeks.

Meaning if you have a baby in the hospital before then technically the docs do not HAVE to do anything to sustain life to the baby . Because it CANT Survive on its own ..

So i guess you have your own "rules" ..

:tt2:

Mindy

[pattygreen 5]

So your saying a 3 month old fetus is "Independent" therefore does not need the mother to survive ?

The child is NOT just as independent 6 months before birth as it is 6 months after birth . How do you think that is possible ?

A Viable fetus is not even condisered until around 22-24 weeks.

Meaning if you have a baby in the hospital before then technically the docs do not HAVE to do anything to sustain life to the baby . Because it CANT Survive on its own ..

So i guess you have your own "rules" ..

:tt2:

Mindy

If you take a newborn baby at say, 1 month, or 2 or 3 months and leave it alone in the crib, it will not be able to survive either. That is what I mean. Every baby, in or out of the womb needs nourishment and care. If left in the womb, it grows independently of the mother by dividing its own cells. If out of the womb it grows independently also. I guess the point I am trying to make is that the baby is not part of the mothers body and therefore she shouldn't be able to decide whether another humans body lives or dies. If you want to kill yourself by driving your car off a bridge, I suppose no one can stop you, but if you are going to do that, then make sure you don't have any passengers in the car with you. Because it may not be their decision to go over the bridge with you. The baby in the moms womb is a passenger in her body. The only thing she provides for her passenger is fast food.< /p>

[Carrie_C 9]

OK, forget Jesus in the womb. What about John the Baptist leaping in the womb when he was in the presence of Jesus in the womb. Was John the Baptist a person at that time? Would God have cared if Elizabeth had aborted him? Did God have a plan for his life even though he was not yet born?

I am not sure how far along Elizabeth was during that time. Since she could feel him moving around, I would say she was pretty far along. Yes, God did have a plan for his life before he was born. But that is a totally diffent situation. That has nothing to do with the issue at hand. This is not Biblical times.

As far as when a human becomes a human, I do not know. I don't think abortion should happen when the baby could survive on its own without the mother.

[Carrie_C 9]

Ready to bail yet Carrie? I sure am. Maybe they can talk amongst themselves. They don't accept anything we tell them.

I know exactly what you mean. :tt2:

[Carrie_C 9]

patty, I am very well aware of prenatal development.

[green 6]

By the way, has anyone read the new March issue of Glamour magazine? It talks about abortion and has several women who have had abortions sharing their stories. It is very interesting. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but it says something about how like 70 something percent of women who've had abortions are christians.

Sounds like an interesting read....

[coltonwade 27]

If you take a newborn baby at say, 1 month, or 2 or 3 months and leave it alone in the crib, it will not be able to survive either. That is what I mean. Every baby, in or out of the womb needs nourishment and care. If left in the womb, it grows independently of the mother by dividing its own cells. If out of the womb it grows independently also. I guess the point I am trying to make is that the baby is not part of the mothers body and therefore she shouldn't be able to decide whether another humans body lives or dies. If you want to kill yourself by driving your car off a bridge, I suppose no one can stop you, but if you are going to do that, then make sure you don't have any passengers in the car with you. Because it may not be their decision to go over the bridge with you. The baby in the moms womb is a passenger in her body. The only thing she provides for her passenger is fast food.< /div>

Again that your opinion , the difference between you and me is I do not think MY Opinion is the ONLY Opinion and therefore EVERYONE should think as I do . If you feel that way you feel that way . I respect that. I do not however think that everyone should or does feel the way I do .

Im done .

[coltonwade 27]

Sounds like an interesting read....

I'll have to check that out

[BJean 16]

If you do not believe in abortion it is within your rights as an American to not have an abortion. No laws says that if you have a retarded or handicapped fetus that you must abort it.

My point is that you must live with the fact that if an American woman choose to abort a fetus, it is within her rights to do so.

Even if you were able to change the law back to the time when abortion was illegal, women will still make the choice to abort if they need to. And there will always be compassionate doctors willing to go to jail to help women who are in need of that kind of medical care.

It makes no sense whatsoever to take away a woman's legal right to choose. There are always circumstances where it is medically or emotionally necessary for women to abort. That is a fact that you can't argue with although I know you will.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

The question is no longer "Are you pro-life or pro-choice". The relevant question is "Do you want to criminalize abortion?" If you answer yes, then you have to be willing to:

-put women who get abortions & the doctors who perform them in jail.

-pay increased taxes for more jails, childcare for these children, welfare for their single moms, healthcare for these children and much more.

-support all forms of birth control, including the morning after pill (which is not an abortefacient).

-be willing to "man up" and adopt these children who you force women to have even when they are multiracial, crack babies or disabled or again pay more taxes for these children to become part of "the system".

Until you are willing to do those things (among others) a "pro-life" stance is not honest and you bring nothing to the table in this debate.

[BJean 16]

Cleo's mom: Very relevant and realistic approach to this issue. Thank you.

[pattygreen 5]

I am not sure how far along Elizabeth was during that time. Since she could feel him moving around, I would say she was pretty far along. Yes, God did have a plan for his life before he was born. But that is a totally diffent situation. That has nothing to do with the issue at hand. This is not Biblical times.

As far as when a human becomes a human, I do not know. I don't think abortion should happen when the baby could survive on its own without the mother.

Since you state that you do not know when the baby becomes a human do you feel that you should try to guess? Because if at 3 months and 4 days gestation it may not be a human, but at 3 months 5 days gestation it may be a human, you could be killing a human if you choose abortion. My parents used to say, if you can't figure out if what you want to do is wrong or right, use this policy....When in doubt, throw it out. In other words, better to not do something if it may be wrong then to go ahead and do it and find out it wasn't right.