who supports right to choose

[plain 12]

I did not realize you could block someone...thank you.

It's how I keep my sanity sometimes!

[rodriguezequal 3]

lol thank you so much! I may be able to get some of my sanity back now...lmao!!!

[Carrie_C 9]

Carrie, if you don't want to discuss the issue, why do you keep posting in this thread? Not that I'm trying to chase you off -- it's your right to do it -- I'm just wondering what the problem is.

I have had my pro-life views challenged here and elsewhere. I'm not afraid of the issues, and I'm not afraid of the responses by those in favor of abortion. I don't think I'll change my mind on the issue. Are you concerned you might change yours? Or are you just skittish about arguing about it?

We're going round and round about why we you don't want to argue about this issue, so instead we're arguing about arguing. Why not just get down to the brass tacks and talk about the real issue, since we're arguing anyway?

Since you really want to know why I think that situation was so bad, I will tell you. There are many reasons. I am not concerned I might change my mind, that is stupid. Weather you like it or not, abortion in this country is legal. And as you have pointed out many many times, it is legal during all 9 months of pregnancy. I am not "pro abortion". Being prochoice is very different, even though I'm sure you will argue about that. I think it is sad that this girl had an unwanted pregnancy in the first place. It is unfortunante that she felt she had no other choice to make. I don't know why she waited so long to have an abortion. I don't believe in late term abortions, but maybe she didn't know she was pregnant until right before this happened, I don't know. Whatever the reason, she had every right to make the choice she did. She went into the clinic to terminate a pregnancy, not deliver a very premature baby, which is what happened. What happened at that clinic reminds me of something that would have happened in a back ally clinic back in the day before abortion was legal. This sort of thing should not be happeneing today. This girl had a right to a safe and accurate medical procedure done by licensed medical professionals. And that is not what happened. A lot of the reasons I think this was so bad has nothing to do with if abortion is right or wrong. It has to do with the way things were done. She should not have been giving those drugs without the doctor there. There should have been a doctor in that clinic at all times. She should not have been sent out to sit in a recliner. She should have had a licensed RN taking care of her. She should have had an ambulance called for her and been taken to an emergency room. She should have received adequate medical care, and that is not what happened. That is the main reason I think this situation was so bad. So there is my reasoning. I am sure you will pick it apart.

[gadgetlady 4]

I understand that religion is part of it but to keep posting "for those who have had abortions, God will forgive you if you admit you regret it or some crap...come on. Every time someone says something pg has to bring god into it and how god looks down upon this and that...the decision I made to have an abortion had nothing to do with my religion...I didn't choose what happened to me...it wasn't my fault and I am not going to ask "god" for forgiveness when I have done nothing wrong!

I think what pattygreen was trying to say, albeit in a way that offended you and didn't hit home for you, was that she knows there are a lot of women who suffer because of their decision to abort and she wanted them to know there was a way to get healing. Again, doesn't apply to you and that's just fine. But some people do need to hear it and know that there is a path to wholeness again.

Someone told me today that the woman who had octuplets and has a fascination with having children had an abortion at age 16 (I haven't read it anywhere myself; just heard it from someone). If she did, her situation makes a little more sense; it is not uncommon for post-abortive women to want to have a lot of kids to "atone" for what they've done. I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying there are all sorts of varying post-abortive responses that can be helped through various healing resources available. Again -- if they don't apply to you, more power to you. But there are definitely those to whom they do apply.

[rodriguezequal 3]

I'm not just talking about that one things she said because I understand that some need that, I'm not just talking about that one post...I'm just talking about how she has presented her point this whole thread...anyways, we all have our opinions and our beliefs and I know that this can get to be very heated because of the topic...I just think that you can justify your opinion without always having to push God onto people...that's all.

[gadgetlady 4]

She went into the clinic to terminate a pregnancy, not deliver a very premature baby, which is what happened. What happened at that clinic reminds me of something that would have happened in a back ally clinic back in the day before abortion was legal. This sort of thing should not be happeneing today. This girl had a right to a safe and accurate medical procedure done by licensed medical professionals. And that is not what happened. A lot of the reasons I think this was so bad has nothing to do with if abortion is right or wrong. It has to do with the way things were done. She should not have been giving those drugs without the doctor there. There should have been a doctor in that clinic at all times. She should not have been sent out to sit in a recliner. She should have had a licensed RN taking care of her. She should have had an ambulance called for her and been taken to an emergency room. She should have received adequate medical care, and that is not what happened. That is the main reason I think this situation was so bad. So there is my reasoning. I am sure you will pick it apart.

I think perhaps you don't know the procedure for this type of late-term abortion. It is a several-day procedure; on the first day, laminaria (a form of seaweed) is inserted into the cervix to dilate it. The goal is for the woman to actually and literally go into early labor and deliver a dead baby. She wasn't given drugs and told to wait in a waiting room; the abortionist inserted the laminaria, sent her home, and told her to return the next day. The next day, as she was waiting for him to arrive to finish the "procedure", she went into labor and delivered the baby before he arrived at the clinic (he was 2 hours late). There would be no reason to have an ambulance come or take her to an ER because technically, nothing was going wrong. The only thing wrong was that he was not there to ensure that the baby was born dead.

However, that being said, is what you're saying is that you're upset about what the mother had to go through? That your dismay at the situation has nothing to do with the baby, but rather that the mother shouldn't have been subjected to having to view her live baby stuffed into a biohazard bag? I hope I'm understanding correctly and not twisting your words.

[gadgetlady 4]

I'm not just talking about that one things she said because I understand that some need that, I'm not just talking about that one post...I'm just talking about how she has presented her point this whole thread...anyways, we all have our opinions and our beliefs and I know that this can get to be very heated because of the topic...I just think that you can justify your opinion without always having to push God onto people...that's all.

I understand what you're saying. Especially because I am someone who doesn't believe abortion is a religious issue at all, but rather an issue of social justice.

[OneHotMama 0]

Someone told me today that the woman who had octuplets and has a fascination with having children had an abortion at age 16 (I haven't read it anywhere myself; just heard it from someone).

She actually had an ectopic pregnancy and it was considered a miscarriage.

[Carrie_C 9]

"That your dismay at the situation has nothing to do with the baby, but rather that the mother shouldn't have been subjected to having to view her live baby stuffed into a biohazard bag? I hope I'm understanding correctly and not twisting your words."

Did anything in my post say that?? NO!!

FOXNews.com - Doctor's License Revoked Over Botched Abortion That Led to Live Baby Being Thrown Out - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News

I am very well aware of the procedure for a late term abortion, probably more than you are. She WAS given drugs the morning of the procedure and told to wait in a recliner for the doctor. She should not have been given anything without the doctor there. She was given the laminaria 3 days before, not the day before. An ambulance most definitely should have been called and she should have been taken to an ER because the unlicenced worker didn't clamp the umbilical cord and she bled out. She was just sent home. She could have very well bleed to death. The main problem with this situation is the doctor and staff were very unethical and untrained people. It has nothing to do with abortion being right or wrong.

[gadgetlady 4]

"That your dismay at the situation has nothing to do with the baby, but rather that the mother shouldn't have been subjected to having to view her live baby stuffed into a biohazard bag? I hope I'm understanding correctly and not twisting your words."

Did anything in my post say that?? NO!!

Well, I thought your post did say that. Does your dismay at the situation have anything to do with the baby at all? Or is it all what the mother went through?

The main problem with this situation is the doctor and staff were very unethical and untrained people. It has nothing to do with abortion being right or wrong.

I apologize for my misstatement of the facts. I should have looked more at this particular situation before saying what I did.

However, you will generally find that abortion clinics, with their intense lobby power, are less regulated than veterinary clinics and often have things like this going on. A chain of clinics was shut down in Los Angeles recently with similar issues. If you have ever listened to people who have come out of the abortion industry (doctors, nurses, clinic workers), you would likely be horrified by the tales they tell.

[gadgetlady 4]

She actually had an ectopic pregnancy and it was considered a miscarriage.

Where did you hear that? (not challenging you -- just want to know the facts so I get it right :smile:). It's still not an uncommon response to a lost child.

[OneHotMama 0]

Where did you hear that? (not challenging you -- just want to know the facts so I get it right :smile:). It's still not an uncommon response to a lost child.

Her Mom said it in a interview.

"Nadya was so determined to have children, she first became pregnant at 16, Angela told RadarOnline.com. She miscarried, said Angela, and discovered she had blocked fallopian tubes."

[gadgetlady 4]

Thank you, ma'am :smile:

[pattygreen 5]

I understand what you're saying. Especially because I am someone who doesn't believe abortion is a religious issue at all, but rather an issue of social justice.

I believe it is a social justice issue as well. But I also believe that EVERY issue is a 'religious' issue. Simply because I believe that everything that goes on in this earth is under God's divine plan for man.

[pattygreen 5]

She actually had an ectopic pregnancy and it was considered a miscarriage.

Even though it seems the whole world is against her for making a decision to have so many children, I have to say that I respect her decision for not aborting them after she was aware that all 7 (so she thought) were alive and well. While I don't agree that she was being very wise in her decision to bring children into the world without a father in the picture, she was wise to deliver what God had given her.