Getting Back To The "Green Zone" After Complete Unfill?

[maygoddess 53]

Hi all! I have been been banded now just over 12 years and lost 130lbs and last 5-6 years have been at the same weight..pretty much at what I would call a "goal" weight..not what BMI charts say. My last fill was at least 5 years ago..don't even remember. The last fills were not done under flouro as I did not go back to my surgeon in Tijuana. Found a "local" dr willing to fill me..but he does "blind" fills..so we never saw my restriction level. The last fills I felt like I finally had restriction enough to get off the last 40 or so lbs I needed to still lose. I was never a really compliant bandster, so it took me awhile to get the weight off. I have been happy at the same size for years. I learned to live with the quirks of the band..I was careful about eating foods that I know would get me stuck. I probably compensated for too tight of a band by drinking liquids alot. I did PB daily, but thought this was just because I was not careful enough. I avoided eating or drinking too close to bed so I would not reflux up..though sometimes still did. This all was just the way it was for a bandster. I was happy to be keeping this weight off. I only even went up and down by 5-7 lbs but knew what I was doing to gain and stopped.

So..here is where I am now. Since my band had not really been checked by flouro since my last fill in Mexico at least 7-8 years ago, I figured I should at least have a look at it to make sure all was okay. Figured it was since band seemed to be doing its job. I figured a slip or erosion would make it self know. I didn't need a fill..so just plugged along. I finally made appt with Kaiser here in Nor Cal to just do a routine Flouro this past August. The flouro showed that the barium would barely drain down. They had me practically dance around the room to try and move it down..nope. What this restriction caused was for me to pack my esophagus and it was double its size. The band was perfectly in tact, upper pouch was there..but now my esophagus was dilated. The bariatric surgeon saw the results and told me to get an appt to get an unfill. So a week later, the doctor drained my band. I have a 4cc band and had 2cc in it.

For at least a week, I had horrible pain off an on..lots of air and gas..that subsided and the weight started piling on. I was unfilled Sept 19th and as of today, December 17th, I am up by 40lbs! Doesn't matter what I eat or don't eat for that matter, how much I work out at the gym..the weight just piled on. Most of that was right away..at least 1/2 but I continue to go up. This has been an expensive lesson as I have had to buy new work clothes, casual clothes. All my clothes have been size 8 and 10 for years. I quickly went through 10s to 12s and now to 14s. I ache in joints I haven't ached in for years. Dramatically gaining 40lbs in 3 months has been difficult.

What I miss the most is the lack of hunger..not necessarily the restriction. This is what I fear the most..that I won't get to that "green zone" where I don't have an appetite. I always told people to not wait on me to be hungry because they would starve. I could go most of the day and not care about food. I want that back!! I worry that getting to that spot again won't happen.

So I had a follow up flouro done a month ago and my esophagus had improved enough where my doctor is willing to start refills. He wanted to give it another month at that point, so I am scheduled for a first refill in two days. I have no idea how much we will start with. I am sure he will increment me back up again. I know we won't be going back to a total of 2cc's again since that was obviously too tight...but all I want is that hunger to go away!

Has anyone else had to go through this and get back to where they were. I just need to stop this weight gain. I am trying so hard to stop it and nothing works. I watch calories, I am excercizing..even on weeks where i had walked thousands of steps around the city for a conference and ate very well as far as calories and food types, drank tons of Water and managed to pack on 5lbs that week anyway!! I should have at minimum maintained if not dropped a 1lb!

I really do think our bodies are thrown into some long term low calorie survival mode when banded and restricted properly. If the vagus nerve controls our appetite and is effected by band restriction against it..perhaps not feeling like you are starving helps us survive on less calorie intake. When that pressure against the nerve is reduced due to unfill, your body is sending signals to get back to where you can store it up again for possible times of "starvation" again..who knows..everyone has a theory..SOMETHING happens. This is not normal to gain this much weight in short amount of time when your calorie intake is at a level where any normal person would at least maintain or lose the avg 1-2lbs per week. I could eat celery sticks or a box of chocolates and still gain weight right now!! I am tired of people telling me I just need to reduce my calories and get in some excercise! I AM I AM I AM!! Doesn't matter!! I am sure I have ONLY gained 40lbs because I have been trying hard not to. If I decided to just fully let loose every day, I am sure 100lbs would have already been packed on!

OKay...enough of my rant...I am praying that in 2 days,I get a starter fill that will get me back to wherever it was to help me keep the weight off so I can now get off this excess 40lbs. I am sure it will take work, but right now I feel like I am swimming against a riptide with a wide open band. Maintaining on extremely low calories is impossible right now, never mind weight loss..Uggh!!

If anyone else has gone through similar with unfills to refills, would love to hear how it went!!

[parisshel 1,892]

Your post is very interesting and I agree about the weight just waiting to come back on when an unfill occurs. I agree that one's body seems to "seek" the lost weight and pack it back on at an abnormally fast pace, similar to regular dieting.

I'm sorry you are experiencing this and I empathize with you. It's quite disheartening, isn't it? One feels so out of control.

I'm curious about the esophegal dilation. You never felt this? When you drank liquids, did they seem to flow through the band quite slow? Do you think your band was too tight for too long and this led to the complication?

As far as unfills/fills go. My experience is that I never have found the restriction I had prior to being unfilled. There are many of us on this forum that will say the same thing. I'm not sure why this is...why 5ccs today does not feel like 5ccs prior to being unfilled, but it is the truth. My first fill was 3ccs in a 10cc band, and I lost 60 pounds with that fill. Now I've stayed at the same weight for almost a year...cannot lose any weight at 5ccs as I have no restriction whatsoever and am hungry constantly.

Add to this a complication of a heart arrythmia which may be linked to my lapband so I can't put any additional fill in it at this time as I risk setting off the atrial fibrillation that I've just got under control. I will opt to have the band removed should exams show that it (the vagus nerve) is responsible for the Afib.

I chose the lapband after hours and hours of research, but now I think that I should have opted for a different WLS, one that was more "plug and play". It's rare to see a long term bandster that has a perfect lapband track record. I'm not talking about weight loss/maintenance, but band stability with no complications.

I hope your experience with the refills will be a good one, and look forward to reading your future posts.

[maygoddess 53]

parisshel,

Thank you for your post! Let's see if I can answer your questions. As far as my esophagus and feeling anything...no, not really. The band has always been sooooo completely fickle. Some days the band felt wide open and other days completely shut down. I was telling the surgeon's nutrionist about my restriction changing with altitude or when sick and she didn't believe me..said it's an internal pressurized system..blah blah..that is not effected by anything..yeah right. Live with this sucker and see! When I have the flu, I can barely get down gatorade(when I was filled of course) and then next day probably could eat a burger..or at least part of one!

Like I mentioned, I lived with it probably being too tight for too long, but I was not really considering it too tight. I just adjusted to the quirks..don't eat or drink late..deal with having to go and PB because I ate too much or wrong thing. I know I was overeating my band...I did this to myself I know. But I lived with all this because I stayed at my goal weight. I didn't have any chronic pain that would have said "oh something is terribly wrong" .. I only was prompted to go to the surgeon in august because I just hit my 12 yr bandiversary and figured I should at least have it looked at to make sure all was okay. I worried if this band ever needed to be replaced or if it had moved or whatever..since I was in a maintenance phase with this, I was not worried for years that the band was helping me to lose weight. It was helping me to keep it off! Exactly why I got it!!

I don't think ANY WLS is truly "plug and play". They all do something totally abnormal to our bodies in one way or another. I personally think the band is way too quirky for many to adhere to properly..as intended. The inventor just assumed an overweight person would just put this device on and automatically be able to go from a plate full of food to a cup full and MENTALLY be okay with that..FOOD IS FABULOUS. I want more! I don't want to stop at a cup. I KNOWI should, but I want more. Right? This is typical I think. So we eat over our band, we eat the wrong foods, we ask for more restriction thinking this will stop us from overeating, but it doesn't necessarily. It slips, erodes and causes other issues because of all the quirks and our tendancy to really put this band through the paces it was never intended for. Why do some people erode or slip while others don't?

Who knows.

Your heart issue is scary. The vagus nerve controls heart and digestion..so while helping with one issue, it is possibly causing another? Yikes.

I have been off of forums and talking to other bandster for years. I had no clue so many people have had problems with it. I never knew the sleeve was a recent surgical option. I guess when things are okay, you go along quietly until something goes wrong. If I hadn't decided to just get a routine check of the band, I would be 40lbs lighter than I am today, but still just dealing with the quirks AND possible further damage to my esophagus.

This was an expensive but valuable lesson for me. I got complacent over the years since I lost all the weight I wanted to. I ate more than I should and I will need to learn to behave if I want to keep this band long term. I don't want to be 140lbs heavier ever again! This 40 extra lbs up is just devastating enough!

If I get to a "green zone" (funny had not heard that term until I came back here after my unfill) I don't know what the future holds.I will pray that a few small fills will at least stop the gain. I am already eating and working out where I should be losing, just need to stop swimming against a tide which is this unfilled band!!

I will post up as I get refilled and hopefully lose what I have gained and learn to be a bandster again!!!

Thanks for anyone listening to my rant!!

[B-52 7,113]

I'm 4 years in, and have not had a fill in 3-1/2 years...like you, everything has settled out where my body wants to be...optimal weight, with a very low body fat %...(Forget BMI's) gain and loose the same 5 lbs ever since.

Not sure what a compliant Lap bander is, I just "Listen" to my band, and don't fight it. When it says stop, I stop. When it says "Not this food", I don't eat it and choose something else.....I am NOT on any diets...I just eat less...a LOT LESS, than what I did before surgery...so I still enjoy things people on diets would never be able to eat.

One thing I have learned...after this time I know my band very well. I expect a certain amount of restriction in terms of portion sizes, lack of hunger/cravings etc.

At times I realize I am suddenly eating more than I should, un -restricted. "I can't believe I just ate that whole thing with no limitations from the band..."

It is then that I go full liquids for a few days..some call this the 5 day pouch test (why I have no idea), but I stay away from solids and give the band a rest....

I always felt it was the pouch that was dilating letting me eat more than usual, but from your experience I can se how it could be esophagus....although IMO it would take a long period of time for that to happen.

Anyway, going all liquids, on my own, in effect achieves the same thing as your Dr. doing a complete un-fill...giving the band a rest, letting things return to normal...and that is what it does for me. After a few days of no solid food, just liquids, my restriction (Loose term) returns along with portion sizes, lack of hunger, etc.

I do this every 6-8 weeks or so.

With the Holidays, I need to do this soon....

It's the only form of maintenance I can think of with the Band....

Last summer, I was feeling so good about myself, I asked the Dr. to have 1/2cc taken out....He advised against it, if it's not broken, why fix it?

But he did just the same.

WOW! Talk about tipping the apple cart! That perfect balance completely destroyed. My hunger returned, I was able to eat more freely with larger portions, then wanted more.

I went back and got that 1/2cc put back in 3 weeks later, with my Dr. saying "I told you so"

I cannot imagine what people go through with a complete un-fil....

[parisshel 1,892]

You offer some great and well-founded insights and I thank you for taking the time to tell your story.

I spoke too fast (and perhaps too naively) when I wrote that other WLS are plug and play. I think they just seem that way when one has experienced complications with a lapband. I also suspect that we haven't yet seen the long term effects of the more recent WLS and that is why those surgeries currently appear to be so much more attractive than the lapband. Let's get 10-15 years of data collecting behind the more recent WLS options and then we can talk!

The rapid weight gain after an unfill, or getting one's band removed, is logical so don't be hard on yourself. The lapband, when optimally adjusted, really allows us to live on 900-1,000 calories/day without the hunger or feeling of deprivation. Take away the lapband (or its optimal fill) and there is no one in the world who could hang on to 900 calories a day comfortably....at least no former obese person.

All the best, and welcome back to the banded life.

[Kitt3000 757]

Thank you. Great info!

[maygoddess 53]

Thanks for your input B-52. You sound like you are truly listening to what your body and band want and disciplined enough to follow through with that. I think the majority of people who diet and lose and gain is because there is lack of discipline..desire is there, but our bodies tell us to eat when we KNOW we should restrict our diets. This is why diets fail and why we all got banded..but the same patterns of behavior are there that got us and kept us fat!! There are folks who successfully could lose weight on WW, Jenny, diet book of the day, etc etc and keep it off because they had that discipline. I like the idea of giving the pouch and esophagus a rest. I will incorporate that. DEFINITELY will be more mindful of what I eat and how much. My motivation to stay at my weight was all about leather! A one piece very unforgiving of even a few lbs weight gain motorcycle track suit. I love to do track days and it has been depressing to have had to miss out because this extra weight prevented me from fitting in that suit. I was gifted a suit form track friends in a larger size and had it altered a bit, but I told the leather guy that by the time next track season starts, I am hoping I fit back into my old one OR he has to alter the larger one down. I stare at my closet full of clothes that no longer fit, but also look at pics of me and want THAT person back again..the one that felt better in her body, achy joints back, not feeling like a lead balloon hauling around an extra 40+lbs. I think I will keep these size 14 work pants out when I get back into my usual 8's as a reminder to never go through this again!

Tomorrow is the day for the journey to refills.. keep you all posted on how it goes! Green Zone here I come!

[maygoddess 53]

Hey all! Just wanted to give an update since my refill on December 19th. It has been a bit of a crazy time since the fill.

So my appointment started out with a session with the nutritionist for the surgeon. Now keep in mind, these two hardly know me or my journey. He is not my original surgeon and I only met them after the discovery of the esophogeal dilation back in September. It is hard to explain to someone who doesn't have a band what this journey day to day is like. The nutritionist is just reading out of her "proper band diet" papers and just wanted to drill in what I should or shouldn't eat. I am a bit stubborn after 12 years with this device that I know what works or doesn't for me. They were still convinced that my sudden and excessive weight gain was nothing but me stuffing myself with TONS of excess calories right after my unfill that caused the gain. Sigh! I could not convince that even if I went over my ACTUAL calories with an extra 500 calories a day, I should have at minimum maintained on those calories. I gave up, shook my head yes to all her demands and waited for the doctor to come in. Thankfully a nurse came in first with a needle and saline and stuff so the nutritionist didn't talk him out of my refill to start. He came in and repeated some of what she said to him in passing out in the hall. Uggh!

So I originally had 2cc of Fluid that he had pulled out in September.When I had my fills way back at the beginning of this, I had numerous fills in Mexico and some up here in Nor Cal..and I believe each time my fills were 1/2cc or less. The doctor decided he would add back in 1cc! I was thinking he was going to trickle me back up. I was happy but a little nervous. I swallowed my cup of Water..definitely felt it gurgle and left. He said come back in 6-8 weeks. When I went in, I was at 196lbs..this is 46lbs up from my usual weight.

I was already a little under the weather but the next day had a full blown cold. I didn't get to really test out the band as I was not eating properly..just getting in some chicken Soup and fluids. The next week was christmas and I went home to So Cal for a few days. I had dropped 2lbs since the fill, but came back from christmas trip home back up a few lbs. 24 hours after returning home on the 28th, I got a violent stomach bug. I had at least 4-5 sessions of attempting to vomit which were quite painful. I was scared my band would slip. I called my doctor and got a prescription for zofran (?) to stop the nausea. That helped but diarrhea continued for another few days. I was afraid to even get Water and fluids in me. I managed to drop about 7lbs in 3 days from this. NOT a cool way to lose weight. After spending New Year's in bed, I finally was feeling better and started to eat again. I managed to gain back 2lbs of the 7lbs. figured it was Fluid loss coming back. As of today I am down 6lbs total from where I was prefill. Most of that achieved from the bug!

I am not sure yet if I am close to a "green zone" , I told the doctor it is not the restriction I am after but the removal of the screaming appetite! I missed being able to go all day without feeling hungry. This week has been fairly "normal" work wise and schedule wise and noticed the appetite is more "quiet" than it was when unfilled. I am still trying to figure out what and when to eat. I need to get back to the gym. Been waiting for me and my guy to stop being sick!

So for now, I THINK the rapid gain has stopped. My body is probably just trying to figure itself out and I am sure my metabolism is jacked up. Who knows! I am definitely relearning better bandster habits and watching how I chew my food. I can see why it is easy to fail at this band and have issues..overfilled, underfilled, not listening to the signals of full and restriction, using it as a binge and purge diet tool..lots of craziness with this device for sure! I just want to get this excess weight back off and be back to where I can keep it off WITHOUT all the issues I had when it was too tight. It may mean I have to be more careful with calories than before, but if I can keep this device safely in, I will learn to comply!

Will come back and post soon with updates once my body is out of sick and holiday mode!!

[Dragonfly8a 25]

Thank you all for your great input ????

[maygoddess 53]

Well almost 2 months since my last update and my first refill on December 19th. Unfortunately I am still up 40lbs from before my unfill in September, but I appear to be staying where I am for now. The rapid weight gain has stopped. With a few colds and some other short medical issues since my refll, my diet,appetite, excercise routines have been thrown off. I am now REALLY trying to restrict calories even further than I was before to try and move the scale down. My hunger level was cut down with the first fill, but I don't think I want to get another fill. I can see why new bandsters get so desperate for fills right away. I don't think most are truly "listening" to their bodies, the hunger signals, appetite, portions, etc. It is sooooo easy to get in way too many calories even with proper restriction. I can see why this band appears to fail. I am at a place where I am not PBing, sliming, no acid reflux, no aspiration.I can take meds without them coming back up. I can drink Water before bed without worrying about it coming back up. I am hoping that this fill will be enough to keep the weight off once I am back to my ideal weight without having to constantly count calories and deprive myself. For now, I am really having to work at getting the weight back off. I worry about eating too much and stretching my esophagus. Such a delicate balance with this band these days.

I soooo wish I never had this unfill because I HATE this extra weight back on and having to fight it off, but I knew it was necessary. Just be careful about wanting more restriction. This band takes some work and paying attention. I feel like a "rebandster" in a way..without starting back at square one..but regaining a 1/3 of what I originally lost was enough!!

I will update as I progress...green zone? I guess..right now I just want out of this fat zone!!! :-)

[parisshel 1,892]

I totally hear you. What you've updated here really sounds like my experience after my unfill, too.

[B-52 7,113]

It is a very delicate balance...I had 1/2 cc taken out at my request last summer, and it threw everything out of whack.

Hunger came back, started eating larger portions with much ease, etc, etc.

Went back and got that 1/2cc put back in ASAP, with my Dr. grinning saying "I told you so"

But it did remind, and prove to me it is the band, and nothing I'm doing....same as before surgery.

I cannot imagine having all the Fluid taken out, then trying to get back and find that magic spot where it all falls into place.

You also mention not having to count calories or deprive yourself....that is something I enjoy about this and would not want to loose as if I was struggling with dieting again...that route never worked for me.

I stopped counting calories or worrying about portion sizes years ago...and I don't deprive myself of lifes little pleasures in the way of delectable foods that dieters can never imagine.

Again, one of the things I enjoy about this, and would hate to loose that "Perfect Balance"

Like I said, just 1/2 cc threw me off....cannot imagine getting it all taken out! What a struggle it must be getting back.

[2babutterfly 483]

I'm 4 years in, and have not had a fill in 3-1/2 years...like you, everything has settled out where my body wants to be...optimal weight, with a very low body fat %...(Forget BMI's) gain and loose the same 5 lbs ever since.

Not sure what a compliant Lap bander is, I just "Listen" to my band, and don't fight it. When it says stop, I stop. When it says "Not this food", I don't eat it and choose something else.....I am NOT on any diets...I just eat less...a LOT LESS, than what I did before surgery...so I still enjoy things people on diets would never be able to eat.

One thing I have learned...after this time I know my band very well. I expect a certain amount of restriction in terms of portion sizes, lack of hunger/cravings etc.

At times I realize I am suddenly eating more than I should, un -restricted. "I can't believe I just ate that whole thing with no limitations from the band..."

It is then that I go full liquids for a few days..some call this the 5 day pouch test (why I have no idea), but I stay away from solids and give the band a rest....

I always felt it was the pouch that was dilating letting me eat more than usual, but from your experience I can se how it could be esophagus....although IMO it would take a long period of time for that to happen.

Anyway, going all liquids, on my own, in effect achieves the same thing as your Dr. doing a complete un-fill...giving the band a rest, letting things return to normal...and that is what it does for me. After a few days of no solid food, just liquids, my restriction (Loose term) returns along with portion sizes, lack of hunger, etc.

I do this every 6-8 weeks or so.

With the Holidays, I need to do this soon....

It's the only form of maintenance I can think of with the Band....

Last summer, I was feeling so good about myself, I asked the Dr. to have 1/2cc taken out....He advised against it, if it's not broken, why fix it?

But he did just the same.

WOW! Talk about tipping the apple cart! That perfect balance completely destroyed. My hunger returned, I was able to eat more freely with larger portions, then wanted more.

I went back and got that 1/2cc put back in 3 weeks later, with my Dr. saying "I told you so"

I cannot imagine what people go through with a complete un-fil....

@b52- what are some of the things you eat when you your few days of liquids...just Protein shakes?? I feel this would be very beneficial to me

[oscarlover 1]

I had my original surgery in 2008 and lost about 80 pounds. Over the past few years, I slowly gained 35 pounds. I have had issues that went on for 2-3 years like not being able to eat after like 5 pm and having to sleep basically sitting up or propped up in bed with several pillows.

I recently went to my primary care doc and told her about my issues and she said I should see a gastroenterologist. I did that and he sent me the next day to have a barium swallow. Within an hour after having the procedure, they called me and told me to go see my lap band doc because my lap band had slipped. They said they were waiting on me to get there. I had not been to see him in probably 4 years or so.

He said that the band had slipped. He took all of the Fluid out and said that I needed surgery. It was scheduled for 2 days later (Jan 23, 2015). He said he may not be able to save it but he would try. Luckily, he did save the band. I went back for my first fill 3 weeks later. He put 2 cc's in a 10 cc band. Before all this happened I had 7 cc's.

I couldn't even tell that he added anything and I was always hungry and eating way too much. I just went back today for another fill and got 3 cc's added. It seem really tight! I had already gained 10 more pounds in 3 weeks!

I sure hope this time it works and I can start losing weight. I need to lose like 50 pounds now.

[maygoddess 53]

It is a very delicate balance...I had 1/2 cc taken out at my request last summer, and it threw everything out of whack.

Hunger came back, started eating larger portions with much ease, etc, etc.

Went back and got that 1/2cc put back in ASAP, with my Dr. grinning saying "I told you so"

But it did remind, and prove to me it is the band, and nothing I'm doing....same as before surgery.

I cannot imagine having all the Fluid taken out, then trying to get back and find that magic spot where it all falls into place.

You also mention not having to count calories or deprive yourself....that is something I enjoy about this and would not want to loose as if I was struggling with dieting again...that route never worked for me.

I stopped counting calories or worrying about portion sizes years ago...and I don't deprive myself of lifes little pleasures in the way of delectable foods that dieters can never imagine.

Again, one of the things I enjoy about this, and would hate to loose that "Perfect Balance"

Like I said, just 1/2 cc threw me off....cannot imagine getting it all taken out! What a struggle it must be getting back.

Yeah...this TOTALLY blows having to worry about counting calories and getting exercise in to keep my calorie count lower. I ALWAYS sucked and hate food journalling and still can't do it. I feel like I am eating way less than I ever did on my many attempts at weight watchers, jenny craig, etc and I continue gain and lose the same few lbs.I know that if I was not really trying to count calories and obsess about it and work out, I am sure the weight would still be piling on. It's rediculous what happens now..I cannot be eating enough to gain 2lbs overnight! I struggle with deciding to get more fill in. My first dilemma is the dietician wants a food journal and she badgers me about what SHE thinks I should eat. I am very particular about what I want to eat and giving me the standard "eat an egg in the morning and a piece of turkey or two for lunch" blah blah won't work for me. Plus I don't know if a tiny bit more fill will help or not. Sigghhh..

I am tired of having to worry about every tiny morsel I put in my mouth. I got the band so that would stop. I don't recall ever having to be this obsessive in the weight loss phase of my band (well the ORIGINAL weight loss phase).

This is so bad, I had a dream last night where I was supposed to head out and meet a client who was more than an hour away but I wasted a few hours trying on my entire wardrobe and nothing fit. All my clothes were too small. I am now up against having to buy new warm weather clothes since I gained all this weight over fall/winter so my fat clothes are sweaters and long sleeve tops. Uggh...was hoping I would be dropping already. Wanna cry!!