Illegal aliens

[green 6]

Yah! BJean, you da man!

[mrspruett 0]

Yeah, thanks BJean. I guess that I am thought to be one of the" suburban housewives" of which some have spoken. I am a wife and mother. I work full-time and I am college educated. I have visited 46 of the fifty states but have never been out of the United States. I live in a very rural area of Indiana and do not live in or near the suburbs of a large city.I am not sure if that makes me a "suburban housewife " or not.I don't know what frame of reference EVA uses to make judgements. The same people who so radically defend a person's right to break our country's laws sure are quick to stereotype others. There are numerous stereotypes linked to illegals and even legal hispanics. I have not mentioned nor do I believe in them. Stereotypes are usually false.The picture that I have in my mind of a suburban housewife is probably false too. I have often thought the life of a "suburban housewife" would be nice but I fear that I would soon be bored.

My oldest child chose to learn French as her second language and I feel that is most assuredly her perogative. She was not interested in learning Spanish. She should not be forced to learn Spanish neither should my younger child. My daughter has visited France and Italy and just fell in love with the French culture. Why shouldn't our children get to choose a language they wish to learn? I took Spanish only because there wasn't much of a choice at school. I was able to make excellent grades but have forgotten so much of it because I was not interested in it. I have had no real opportunities or inclination to use it. What I don't use, I forget!

I love my life. My husband and I have the means to live anywhere we choose. I have never had to resort to criminal activity to get what I need.I never intentionally break laws and I have never had to. Maybe I am lucky or just honest and hard-working, I don't know.I am very active in my community and do not think I own it or the U.S. I am, however, proud of the country I live in and make no apologies for being so.

I feel that perhaps since there are 12 million illegals in the U.S. , there are probably some on LBT. If not I am sure there are some who have loved ones who are here illegally. I think this is what brings out such emotion.I have no idea what incites such anger and hostility. I don't really care what a stranger thinks of me but it just goes to show how opinions based on posts can be wrong.

Nothing that has been said here has changed my opinion of people who break our laws and come here illegally. I have learned a lot about international economies and life in neighboring countries though. I enjoy learning and there are some very knowledgeable people who post here. BJean, Green, L8BloomR, Derrick, Carlene, Marimaru, Laurend, etc. I could go on and on listing the intelligent and thoughtful folks here. Like I said, I love to learn. Learning is always good but freedom to learn is even better.

I am not a bigot or a racist. It has even been suggested that I am a bad human being because I disagree with people coming here illegally. That is just foolish!

Differences of opinion are such a big part of our culture. People are quick to say that this is a "melting pot" but sure don't leave room for a disagreement.LOL

I ,for one, get tired of talking about my band all the time. I enjoy a lively debate and presentation of different points of view. I can do that without resorting to personal attacks and insults. Many of you also debate without insulting. Kudos to you.

People come into the R&R forum and say that they want to talk only about their band. Why are they in here then? That is what we do in all the other forums, isn't it?

Wow, this has turned into a novel. What I have said is from my heart and I appreciate all of you who take the time to share your thoughts and opinions with me. It is AWESOME.

[L8BloomR 1]

Wow, this has turned into a novel. What I have said is from my heart and I appreciate all of you who take the time to share your thoughts and opinions with me. It is AWESOME.

And thanks for sharing yours, mrspruett. This is an awesome group even if we do get worked up sometimes! I do sense that most of us really want to understand each other, yet stereotypes crop up at times and that can make empathizing more difficult. Thanks for your efforts in this area!

[Marimaru 7]

Quick note, while it's in my head; it seems to me that some people think that -feel bad for the person trying to get out of a bad situation- and -be upset with someone who is breaking a law- are mutually exclusive, but they aren't. I understand that they are trying to make better lives for themselves (at least, a large portion of them), but that doesn't me I have to accept their doing it illegally.

mrspruett, that was great post!

[*JASMINE* 1]

I am not a bigot or a racist. It has even been suggested that I am a bad human being because I disagree with people coming here illegally. That is just foolish!

So I guess this is directed at me? Is that correct? No one has ever "suggested" that you were a bad human being for disagreeing with people being here illegally. I do believe that a person's inability to empathize with these people makes them a bad human being, IMO.

And I believe that what I said was that there is nothing wrong with teaching your children something new, if you want to make THEM a better human being.

For someone that doesn't mean to offend anyone, you sure seem to get offended with being stereotyped. Some people get very offended when someone puts words in their mouths or twist them in order to call their comments "foolish".

And by the way, I think it's great that your kids make good grades. In no way was I emplying that they are ignorant. My earlier comment was not directed at your children. I apologize if you took it that way. It can be very easy to take a post and run with it. I often find myself exercising great restraint...but I am human too and not always successful at it...

[green 6]

Thanks, mrspruett. You sure are a sweetie and you certainly understand the spirit behind the R&R zone. The way I see it, it is kinda like Las Vegas - whatever happens in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas. You should be warned that Green has big plans to come over to your place and raid your vegetable patch.< /p>

As for you, Jasmine, I think that your voice is one that carries great value and that you simply must for all sorts of obvious reasons continue to keep on posting on this thread. Afterall, what we are all attempting to discuss and to try to understand is the migration of human beings and how this affects other humans.

I should tell you that this is a subject that interests me on many levels and one of them is personal. You see, my father was a Polish Jew who opted to leave Poland in 1937 and he ended up illegally migrating throughout most of western Europe before finally washing up in England. His life history during this time was perilous and painful for him for he was an illegal and he was broke. In retrospect his life makes for a most astonishing story. It also saved his bacon.

He did finally end up in England and eventually, after he proved himself, was granted British citizenship and finally ended up in British Intelligence. His story is a fascinating one but he was not unique. There was a quite a movement in Europe at that time of distressed and displaced people. Some were luckier than others but the shift in displaced populations went on for many decades, before, during, and after this war.

I believe that people move only when they have to, their home hunting grounds are no longer viable and they are forced out, but at the same time, when a mass of people move into neighbouring territory they place sudden great stress on an environment which had previously been harmonious and well balanced.

I know that I am describing this issue in simplistic terms but it continues to strike me that the government is at fault by opting to play a laissez-faire role in this situation.

The American government can choose to legalize the status of these individuals and then these folks will be on the hook with respect to paying taxes and following local, state, and federal laws. Or the American government can insist on a crack-down on illegals. This would mean that all individuals or companies caught hiring or in any other way profiting from illegals (i.e. landlords) would be subject to heavy fines and slammer time.

For sure this business of illegals is a dreadful problem for both the American taxpayer and for the dude who has arrived in America with all his hopes for a better life for himself and his family.

[*JASMINE* 1]

Thanks Green. I really appreciate you telling us about your father's experience. I'm sorry he had to go through such hard ship.

I continue to post on this thread because I think it's important for it not to become on sided. I know that Eva's post was a very emotional one and sometimes emotional posts get lost and rediculed (?sp).

Although I do not agree with name calling, I do agree with some of her points.

Logically, I believe that people should follow our laws. I just get hung up on people directing their anger at just the illegals and not the government. I also believe that people have no room to place judgement on these people. Yes, I know that we can't change the history of how the United States was established, but who are we to now determine that people do not belong here because WE have now established our own set of laws? What makes our set of laws better than those of the Native Americans?

I really appreciate Green and BJean for maintaining such a level head on this subject. It's not as black and white as some may want it to be. There are many people responsible for this mess...

[sbee 0]

totally agree with you guys. I think that the police should just t the arrest the illegals at thier parades and protest rallys. I watched all those people who were being naturalized on July 4th and was so happy for them. No matter how you get here, you should have to go throught the process as for the kids that were born here they can decided to take them back to thier home country. I feel all those illegal that have been here for years would have tried to gain citizenship if they were really intersted n becoming citizens. And why are we even considering thier side, I can't go to Canada and start demading them to change thier laws for me. Anyone want to try????? (Sorry got a little heated)

[BJean 16]

Well this is obviously a emotionally charged topic. It affects practically everyone, no matter which side you're on - if you've chosen a side.

I wish we could get our heads together in a non-heated, logical way and teach our "leaders" what should be done that will be fair to everyone. Or at least find a soloution that is not one-sided and that is a relatively simple compromise all the way around.

Anybody have any realistic ideas?

[mrspruett 0]

Jasmine- your post was not the one that referred to "suburban housewife". It was someone else.... I think. You also were not the one who called me racist. ??????? I am really confused now LOL. You did say forcing my kids to" learn stuff" would make them better human beings but that remark did not offend me. I simply disagreed. You were not in my thoughts at all when I wrote my last post. Sorry if you misconstrued what and who I was referring to. But it doesn't matter anyway. No harm done. You are right about one thing , though, I hate stereotypes. I think I clearly stated that.

Green- if you are ever in Indiana, you are welcome in my veggie patch anytime!

sbee- I have wondered why immigration doesn't just arrest people at those big rallies too. They are admitting to being here illegally. That does speak to the fact that the government needs to do their part to help with the problem.

[Marlluvia 1]

Wow, I just came across this thread today, and boy do I have lots to say on this issue. I will try to be brief. My parents came from Mexico almost 38 years ago, and became US residents legally. My father and mother learned English, not fluently, but enough to get them by. My father is a successful business owner and has done well for himself and his family. There are some of us, who aspire to be successful and live out the American dream, as any other human being does. In addition to my parents, my husband is also from Mexico, and he also came to the US legally and is a hard working individual.

On the other side of the coin, we have family members that are first generation immigrants, and are taking full advantage of the welfare system. My sister-in- law is receiving assistance and I was fuming mad when I found out. Her live in boyfriend brings in good money and she is also employed. While her income is well below the guidelines, her boyfriend's money isn't. Not to mention, they drive a newer car and receive child support from their ex's. Well, when I called and yelled "FRAUD" to the government agency, they very politely informed me that my sister-in-law was abiding by the rules. She was, as the gov. agency likes to refer to her, a separate household. By that I mean, she is not legally married to her companion, so his income and vehicle, under his name, does not count as part of her income or assets. What a bunch of BS. So to make a long story short, our government makes it so easy for abuse to take place.

I could go on and on, but it just upsets me to much. The government needs to think long and hard before they make a decision about immigration. It's not fair that US citizens, have to pay huge amounts of money in order to obtain medical treatment. While those that are here illegally, can just walk into a hospital and have everything paid for. That's my 2 cents.

[mrspruett 0]

Marluvia- It sounds like your parents and husband followed the rules and the law. I don't believe it is a coincidence that they have been successful. I think being honest, hard-working, and law-abiding contributes to a successful life. Your sister-in-law on the other hand will probably never be very successful as she is not willing to work to achieve her dreams. From your description of her, she will probably always be looking for the easy way whether it is legal or not. That is the difference. Honesty is an important part of one's character and it does say a lot about an individual when they are willing to do things in accordance with the law. People who are willing to go through the necessary paper work and inconvenience of entering a country legally are much more likely to achieve the American dream IMO. Your parents and husband are the type of people who founded this country and are to be congratulated on their hard work and sacrifice. All the best to you and your family.

[green 6]

Mrspruett, you bring up a very good point in your latest post. The attitude which the new arrival takes towards the host country will determine his or her success.

To tell you the truth, this has become a unmentionable topic up here in Canada, a country which prides itself upon being both a country of immigrants and a country that is careful of the rights of all its inhabitants. Our attention to the rights of our minorities has been a fine thing indeed but it has also created an environment that is so politically correct that it sometimes shuts down discussion. The distressing truth is that certain ethnic/cultural/national groups do manage better than others when it comes to integrating and mastering the environment of the host society.

It would be easy to say that problems arise when one is a member of a visible minority but the truth is that in my multicultural city our Chinese, Korean and South Asian communities seem to be able to acclimatize. Their children go on to university and are successful in developing careers. Other visible minority groups remain ghettoized and watch their sons drift into gangland activities and their daughters become babymothers.

This question of which cultural/national or whatever groups are most likely to not only survive but do well does not only concern visible minorities. One of our invisible (white) minority groups is known, I have been told, amongst inner city teachers to have especially grave difficulties in mastering the rules of their new home. Of course when I refer to these rules I mean, rightly or wrongly, all that middle-class stuff: getting a good education, getting and keeping a job, not breaking the law, settling down and choosing to have children in a thoughtful and careful manner, remaining clean and sober and paying your bills on time, not beating up on your mate, your kids or the next door neighbour just because you are in a bad mood, not living on welfare and playing your stereo at 4 AM, not keeping your dog chained up and barking 24/7 in your backyard....

The disturbing truth is that some cultures do fare better than others. Up here in Canada we are uncomfortable about entering into these discussions for we are afraid that such discussions may open the door to bigotry, and this is a valid fear. At the same time this blocks us from examining why some folks do better than others.

[vallin 0]

I don;t know much about Canada what minority group are you referring to?:ranger:

[LadyLee 3]

I was just wondering what everyone thinks about the proposed changes in the laws for people that are here illegally. Do you think they should be given amnesty and legal status? Deported? What about their children who are born here and therefore are U.S. citizens? It just seems to me that to start out your life in a new country by breaking it's laws isn't right. :confused: What do you all think?

I'm with you, it's wrong, buy breaking the law you should have no rights to any services here in the USA at all. Their children should be deported also. The children should be allowed to come back when they reach adult age, is able to work, or get an education. Our four fathers put these laws into place along time ago and with structure for a reason.