Illegal aliens

[L8BloomR 1]

There is another couple of factors in all this: The unions and the bargain shoppers. The unions push for higher wages and full benefits for workers, but the public wants low prices and high quality in the goods it buys. Something has to give! My father is a union man....believes in them wholeheartedly. He thinks everyone (regardless of age) should make a living wage. But he shops at the 99¢ store and refuses to pay the going price for almost anything. Do you see the problem? I think many employers use illegals to help keep their costs down so they can compete in the global economy. I also think that is why the government looks away even when it knows it is going on. I don't see how this can be fixed without changing people's mindset...

[uniqueone 0]

I totally agree, L8tbloomr. Because of the need for a change of thinking and behavior by the citizens, not just Congress, the White House, etc., I'm not sure what the realistic solution is....especially a short term one.

[L8BloomR 1]

I totally agree, L8tbloomr. Because of the need for a change of thinking and behavior by the citizens, not just Congress, the White House, etc., I'm not sure what the realistic solution is....especially a short term one.

Yes, it is hard to make people understand that shopping at places like my Dad does promotes the need for people who will work for low wages. These bargain stores sell products made by people in other countries who earn almost nothing for their work, therefore they can sell them so cheaply. My Dad wants people HERE to make top dollar for their work, but he refuses to buy products at the prices required to make that happen. I cannot make him see the hypocrisy in that. As long as we shop "price" instead of "Made in the U.S.A.", we are doomed with this situation, I think. :faint:

[EVA 0]

Hrm I guess my point was to say we all have the right to be here. But to see some one say that because there were no laws when the pilgrims came were not all illegals here wow what an ignorant statement. Are you a direct desendant from the mayflower whos family is inbred and not mixed with something else lol I cant belive you would make such a statement. Sadly thats the racism and the attitude of entitlement that destroys our country. When you can crawl out of your shell and get over yourself and your feeling of the perfection that you see in your self and your children and realize this country was founded on the belief that we all have the right to be here then maybe this country will have a chance. Untill then sadly other peoples children will continue to be frowned upon by people like yourself who think better of themselves and continue to perpatrate the circle of racism. When you say that its unfair that children have to learn spanish reducate yourself. this country at least a good part of this country was stolen from mexico so why not have to learn spanish. Its so sad that you see the Country as belonging to you and not see it as the melting pot it is.

There is truth in the need to create a more secure method for people to enter this country but to think that any single one of us is better then any other who landed here is truly an ignorant and racist statement to belive that you do not in any way affect the life of others in a 3rd world country is just lack of information on world trade. Unless you live in an omish community that grows and does everything naturally your affecting people in another part of the world. The very existance and life style we are afforded in this country is at the expense of others. Of this I am very much aware and try my damdest to give something back to my community and to organizations that help others.

You'd be supprised how much better life would be if you put yourself in someone elses shoes and thought before you spoke or typed.

[green 6]

Green- I am not sure either why these companies get a slap on the wrist. One such company which was caught hiring large numbers of illegals was Cosco. They make baby beds, strollers, car seats, and some household stuff like step ladders, etc. They were caught with several hundred illegals in their work force. They did eventually change the name of that particular factory but Cosco is still the parent company. There is another local culprit and that is Tyson chicken. They are also well known to hire illegals. The only thing that I can figure out is that these are HUGE companies and $$$$$$$ talks. As I have said earlier, I do not patronize companies that I know use illegals as part of their work force. We cannot, however, know who all these companies are. I just do what I can. I agree the fat cats are as much to blame as the people who come across the borders . They are all breaking the law.

But these are big companies!!! Indeed Cosco has penetrated Canada and can therefore be considered to be a multi-national corporation. As for Tyson Chicken, although I am not personally acquainted with the name, I have no doubt that you are right when you say that this is a big player. This would indicate that you have wealthy corporations who are choosing to by-pass both federal and state legislation in order to hire illegal foreign labour. Why would they do this? Because these people will work for less? Because these companies will not be on the hook for their health benefits and safety costs?

The illegals are desperate and will work under conditions which are entirely unsatisfactory and often illegal. This has the effect of destroying the work standards for those Americans who constitute the working class. The end result is that you will find a lot of Americans who are on the dole (on welfare) and a lot of illegals who are working under crappy conditions. And a lot of tax revenue which goes missing due to illegal labour.

Of course this is a complicated problem: either our jobs have gone to the third world or the third world has come to us via this biz of illegal labour. It seems that much of our food (agricultural and manufactured) production has been shifted off shore and now, in the case of the huge amount of imports from China, this reliance on cheap stuff is proving to be a fairly toxic treat. We have, of course, read about the pet food scandal. You may not be aware that there is a brand name toothpaste clone which is currently being sold in some discount stores where I live; this stuff has antifreeze materiel as part of its make-up. I also don't know whether you are aware of some of the latest and saddest reportage to come out of mainland China. This is all about a small number of people, maybe less than 15, who have either died or who have been left in a more or less vegetable-like state as the result of an antibiotic which had been manufactured under faulty conditions.

According to the report which I read, the government was not especially quick about recalling the bad medicine and the manufacturer, though comfortable with admitting fault, is not willing to either apologise to these families nor pay reparations. The family who was profiled in this article has lost their only child, a 6 year old. They were, it seems, utterly smashed up by this loss. The mother has been unable to work or even to leave the house since her loss and the child's father has quit his job in order to devote his time to fighting for justice for his dead child.

I suppose I find myself telling you all this story because I believe that it indicates that those average folks in the emerging economies are certainly not our enemies. And certainly it is not the illegal immigrant, either. These are ordinary people who find themselves being ground up, in one way or another, in larger events.

My hunch is that your average individual, when placed under stress, tends to react to events and to, with greater or less success, attempt to survive. This may mean that some of us behave like cockroaches at times.... However, in democratic countries we do rely upon our governments to behave in a more ethical and a more dispassionate manner. It is for this reason that I can understand a family harbouring an illegal member of the family but cannot understand why corporations such as costco or Tyson Chicken receive nothing more than a little smack when caught employing illegals. These companies should experience the loss of their fiscal gonads :whoo:as well as having a bunch of their execs spend a little time in the slammer. :eyebrows: With or without gonads, eh. :faint::) um, er, ovaries, or, erm, whatever...........

[mrspruett 0]

Green- You are so right. The people I know who worked at Cosco during the shake-up said that the illegals worked along side everyone else. They had the same pay, the same working conditions, and I guess, the same benefits. A few of them even confided to one of my friends that they were underage ( 17 years old) and were using a fake name and card ( social security card or green card maybe). From what I understand the conditions at the Cosco plant were crappy for all the employees, legal and illegal. Although the attention from the public has died down a bit, the plant that was formerly called Cosco is still known to hire illegals. I don't know how they continue to do it unless the fact that the folks do present fake ID's and documents keep the execs in the clear. I do wonder if there was an accident if these folks would get worker's comp or would they suddenly be required to produce more documentation?

Your point about the toothpaste is well taken. We do have many people who hate the United States. Even thought the toothpaste thing may have been simple contamination, what if some radical terrorists do something similar? That is another reason that we need to tighten our borders and use as many of our own food and products as we can. Even then, things will get in. It is a scary time.

L8BloomR- You are so right about the "made in the U.S.A." thing. We have to be willing to pay more if that is what it takes.

EVA- I am sorry that you are so upset. Perhaps you have a more personal experience with this topic than I. As I have said, I do not know anyone who is here illegally so to me it is a political issue not a personal one. Let me assure you that I am not a racist and I have no problem with anyone who comes to our country legally. No my family is not from the Mayflower or inbred LOL. I do have quite a bit of Native American (Cherokee) in my ancestry though. I do think before I type and speak and I think most of my posts are well thought out. There is no way that I can address all the slurs and insults you threw my way except to say that maybe YOUR life would be better if you thought before you spoke or typed. I no longer want to address you because it is obvious that you have a personal experience of some sort that makes you so very angry. Have a nice day! Please don't forget to vote so that you may cast a vote for someone who shares your philosophy....... I most certainly will.

[green 6]

I should clarify the victims of the lousy Chinese antibiotics, the ones whom I described in my earlier post, were in fact Chinese citizens.

[mrspruett 0]

I feel so sorry for the victims. Isn't it awful to think that simple things like toothpaste, or medicine could be poison? My sympathy goes out to all those affected.

[L8BloomR 1]

I found this interesting.....According to a June 5th Newsweek article, "Stepping Over the Line," "Mexicans cheered President Fox on sending soldiers down to their southern border to lessen immigration. Since 1974, a person caught sneaking into Mexico can spend up to 2 years in prison. The Mexican government has only given legal status to 15,000 foreigners without papers in the past 5 years."

Can anyone explain why this policy is OK for Mexico while at the same time we are criticized for trying to tighten our border even a little?

[mrspruett 0]

My husband tells me he has read things that state that the Mexican gov't actually provides guides on how to enter the US illegally. I have not seen this documentation, he's just told me about it.

L8BloomR- As Marimaru says in the above quote, the Mexican gov't is encouraging their citizens to leave too. Maybe they want to decrease the population. Having their citizens leave and not letting any foreigners in would sure do that, wouldn't it?:cry

[mrspruett 0]

I found this interesting.....According to a June 5th Newsweek article, "Stepping Over the Line," "Mexicans cheered President Fox on sending soldiers down to their southern border to lessen immigration. Since 1974, a person caught sneaking into Mexico can spend up to 2 years in prison. The Mexican government has only given legal status to 15,000 foreigners without papers in the past 5 years."

Can anyone explain why this policy is OK for Mexico while at the same time we are criticized for trying to tighten our border even a little?

I think a lot of nations capitalize on the fact that the U.S. tries to be so "politcally correct". Many individuals do as well. We are so afraid of stepping on the toes of certain groups. I, for one, am about ready to jump up and down on their toes if it gets the politicians' attention and pressures them into doing something about the issues that are hurting our nation.

[L8BloomR 1]

mrspruett, I agree. Mexico is a beautiful country with lots of natural resources. I think much of the poverty comes from a corrupt government and judicial system there. There is a vast difference between the "haves" and the "have nots". If something could change that system...some way for the wealth to at least trickle down to the others, much of our immigration problem would be solved. As it is, there is no incentive for the government to improve the living conditions of the poor since so much money is coming into their country from our country (and others) via the immigrants--- which promotes keeping things as it is.

[BJean 16]

I have not read or heard anything about the costco or Tyson corporations hiring large numbers of illegal immigrants. I patronize costco and buy Tyson chicken products, but I will happily cross them off my shopping list if I find out for sure that they knowingly hire illegals for their work force.

One aspect to the cost of goods that we might want to address is that hiring cheap labor is not just to keep the cost of goods down for the American consumer - it is to ensure larger profits for the corporations. in some cases astronomical profits. Greed is the biggest problem with corporations and our government today. And corporations and the government are the biggest problems when it comes to encouraging people to enter this country illegally.

Eva you really do come off as someone who isn't being very objective at all about this issue. It is not as simple as Americans just being compassionate for people who need a better life. It isn't as simple as stating that the U.S. is a melting pot.

There is a huge difference between our ancestors who immigrated to this country legally and those who come here illegally. People who come here illegally and who take (or send) as much money as they can back to their country of origin, who do not pay their fair share in taxes and insurance, but who do take advantage of government programs and our educational and health systems in this country do not deserve to be considered in the same favorable light as legal immigrants!

Yes, they need a better life. Yes, our government and corporations have made it possible for them to live here against the law. But those things do not make us want to simply greet them with open arms as we do those people who are made to achieve certain standards and go through the required legal channels before they come here.

[mrspruett 0]

Bjean- I don't know if Tyson or Cosco do this in ALL their factories. I know they do in the 2 locations they have near me. I have already crossed them off my list of companies that I buy from. By the way the formerly Cosco plant is in Columbus, IN and the Tyson factory is in Corydon, IN. They do require documentation ( as far as I know ) but are given fake papers to verify citizenship or legal status. These facts are so much common knowledge in this area that the illegals readily tell their co-workers after a while on the job. The truck drivers delivering to these plants have to look around to find someone who speaks English near the shipping and receiving area. As I have said, I do know a few people who have worked in these factories but they were U.S. citizens. That is all I know about these companies. Another local culprit is AISIN in Seymour, IN. An illegal recently asked someone I know to go to the DMV for him and get his license tags because he was afraid because of being illegal.They both worked at AISIN. It is an automotive plant.

[mrspruett 0]

Speaking of the DMV reminded of a funny story that I ,myself ,witnessed recently. I had taken a number and was sitting waiting for my turn. A young local hispanic man who I know and was born in this area entered with an even younger hispanic man. The local man recently left his job of 15 years to become an interpreter (he bragged to everyone how much money he was going to make working for some agency). The younger man started out by speaking through the interpreter but when the name he had given and the social security number did not come up the same, he became agitated. He quit using the interpreter and started yelling,"It's OK. I take it. I take it." (referring to the name that didn't match). The clerk explained to him that she could not and would not issue him a license without proper documention with matching names. The interpreter quickly ushered him out and returned later with yet another older man. I did not hang around to see if the items that guy presented matched up or what.</p>