Illegal aliens

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I completely agree with you. But it's not as black and white as you want it to be. The illegal, the Mexican government, and the U.S. employer are ALL at fault for the current problems. But the hatred you display is just geared towards the illegal. I think that the other two get lost in the delivery of your posts.

And I usually am just a lurker. I used to love to debate about issues at one time in my life, but really, it's not worth the stress. If you look at my previous posts, you will see that most of them are not in this section of the forum. I guess this is a sensitive subject for me, as well.

The "hatred" I display is a sheer frustration for the result of the problem, not the people themselves. I outline the problems we live on a daily basis and you call that hatred. To each his own, I guess.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I agree we need to put Americans first. That's why we need to come down like a sledgehammer on the American employers who hire illegals and make this whole mess possible. If it were not for them, if there were no jobs, why would anyone cross the border? These American criminal employers are breaking the law and "they are NO different from a drug dealer. They are breaking the laws just like a drug dealer."

I say put the burden where it belongs. On the people who are causing the problem.

I agree with you. I think if an employer is hiring illegals because they are cheaper than hiring legal US citizens, put them in jail. Put them in jail for a long time, fine them heavily, and sock it to them. It would only take a couple of employers going to jail and people would stop the practice of hiring illegals for the most part if they know they are next if they don't stop breaking laws.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Bubble, why do you ask others what they're doing about the situation? What are YOU doing, besides ranting and raving and blaming the illegal aliens for all the problems in your part of the world?

I drive to Nogales, Mexico (not a safe city AT ALL) at least every other week and volunteer for three doctors there. A trauma surgeon, an Internal Medicine Doctor, and a GI specialist and volunteer time providing medical care to those that couldn't afford medical care in their own country otherwise. I pay for all my own travel expenses, etc.

That's the main thing I do, what do you do?

Do you really think that pointing out the horrors of the situation is going to fix it? Do you think that telling us how bad it is where you live is going to make us look at all Mexicans the way you seem to?

It isn't just Mexicans, it is a great number of countries that are flocking over here. Yes, I think it will make a difference to tell people what the problem is like on the border states. Nobody is going to work on this problem until people from the midwest start screaming as loud as we are on the border states. By that time enough people will be screaming that something will be done however, it will likely be too late to undo a great deal of damage by that point. I'm not of the thinking that if we pretend it isn't a problem it will go away. We need to let people in other states know what they are going to experience as time goes on. The illegals aren't slowing down, they are coming here at record rates.

When the rest of the country experiences what we do on a daily basis, then you'll see something done. Those on the border states will just sit back and remind everyone that we tried to tell you.

Why aren't you more angry at the government of your own country for not enforcing the laws and in fact encouraging illegal aliens from Mexico to come here and work and get other benefits? Why aren't you screaming from the rooftops about who is really to blame?

What in the world makes you think I'm not doing just that???

[L8BloomR 1]

It isn't just Mexicans, it is a great number of countries that are flocking over here. Yes, I think it will make a difference to tell people what the problem is like on the border states. Nobody is going to work on this problem until people from the midwest start screaming as loud as we are on the border states. By that time enough people will be screaming that something will be done however, it will likely be too late to undo a great deal of damage by that point. I'm not of the thinking that if we pretend it isn't a problem it will go away. We need to let people in other states know what they are going to experience as time goes on. The illegals aren't slowing down, they are coming here at record rates.

When the rest of the country experiences what we do on a daily basis, then you'll see something done. Those on the border states will just sit back and remind everyone that we tried to tell you.

Bubble, I am with you on this one. I heard this morning that both Canada and Britain used to allow "anchor babies" but got rid of that law over the last few years. Why, if they are in need of more population? Could it be for the potential problems that the U.S. is now dealing with? I really don't think that anyone that is not dealing with the situation can fully understand it or the ramifications. It sounds nice; let all the people in who want to be here, Kumbaya and all that.... Then "press 1 for English" everytime you make a phone call.... wait for hours upon hours in a hospital waiting room with your elderly parent, fighting for a place to sit because the entire room, the hallways, the bathrooms, the parking lot is filled with illegals and their extended families who use the hospital as a combination family check-up/reunion center..... Or try waiting in the small ICU waiting room, the one with the big "No One Under The Age Of 16 Allowed" signs plastered all over it, while your parent undergoes surgery... but end up standing against the wall in the hallway outside for 3 hours because the room is filled to the brim with illegals and all their small children and the nurse is too afraid of being called a "racist" to enforce the rules. I live in California, and have seen so much change for the worse in the last 10 years that I don't know how much longer we can hold out. Our city and state taxes are sky high. Also, I own a small business and I can tell you it is not that easy to weed out the illegals from the legals. The ability of getting authentic-looking IDs has made it a nightmare for legitimate business to decifer who is who, so merely cracking down on businesses will not fix the problem. We need help!

Another thing, my sister is a teacher and she has to spend a part of each year in Mexico or in extensive Spanish-learning programs in order to keep her job. Most of her students do not speak English. Please!! If I were to migrate to another country, could I require others to speak my languge?

My parents migrated here legally and my best friend is hispanic who's parents also migrated here legally from Mexico. I am no racist. But any town, city, state and country can only take so much chaos before it breaks down. Those of us begging for border control are living in chaos and need our laws enforced, like they would in most other situations. I am a Republican and usually support Pres. Bush, but he has lost me on this. I am so mad at him I could spit. I think he and the other politicians have forgotten that we are the ones "living in the trenches" while they live on the hill away from the problems. It sounds to nice and ensures votes to welcome people with open arms. But when it is YOUR house being invaded, the feeling is very different. :eek:

[BJean 16]

Bubble and L8BloomR- You are obviously both much more qualified than I to discuss the immediate problems with illegal Mexican immigrants flooding our hospitals and the other problems that having so many illegals sapping our resources is causing.

Of course I'm a taxpayer and an American citizen so I have a vested interested in the problem. My comments earlier were made because it seems to me that many people are condemning the illegals themselves and I just don't think that enough responsibility is being laid at the feet of the politicians who are able to do something, but don't.

Can you even believe that our president could think that building a wall is the answer?

As far as employers are concerned I know that bogus documentation is a problem for them, but it sure seems like if there were very stiff financial penalities for hiring illegals, it would sure help. Hit them in the pocketbook which is what benefits from them hiring illegals in the first place.

[green 6]

Yes, if the laws against hiring illegals were applied with due diligence and the penalties were severe enough this would, I believe, make a difference. It would also make life easier for those Hispanics who are legals and whom, I am sure, are often victims of the anger and the frustration which so many Americans now feel.

As for the situation re babies born to foreign nationals up here in Canada: the baby will be given Canadian citizenship and thus may stay in the country. His parents, however, cannot. This leaves them with the option of taking the child with them when they leave or finding a Canadian guardian for it. Families caught in this bind will apply to be allowed to stay on compassionate grounds and there was a recent case where this was granted. A single woman who came from an African country where all girl children are circumsized, that is to say that their external genitals are removed, applied to remain with her infant daughter who had been born on Canadian soil. She argued that her child would most certainly undergo sexual mutilation. Her reprieve from deportation came through at the last minute.

Another interesting case is that of a middle eastern Muslim family who have a young Canadian son. They were attempting to return to Canada in order to reapply for refugee status and were flying here via Mexico. Though the flight was supposed to be direct it made a stop on U.S. soil and the family was seized and interned in a prison in Texas which had been converted to house undesirable foreigners. Because the boy is a Canadian national the Department of Foreign Affairs is now involved but I have no idea about the latest developments in this story.

You may wish to ask your representatives to push to change the anchor baby rule and to demand that the laws against hiring illegals be stringently enforced and that the punishments be severe. From my readings on the subject the infrastructure of the southern states, both economic and social, are gravely damaged by this influx of people and I think that you are right to alert your fellow citizens to this fact. This thread is a good one. It caused me to start paying attention to this issue.

[L8BloomR 1]

BJean and Green, thanks for your thoughtful replies. Green, the "anchor baby" rule is based on the 14th Amendment, so changing that would be a huge undertaking! I don't think it can be done. Most of us would be happy if our government would just enforce the laws we already have. That would make a huge impact for the better, I think.

[green 6]

BJean and Green, thanks for your thoughtful replies. Green, the "anchor baby" rule is based on the 14th Amendment, so changing that would be a huge undertaking! I don't think it can be done. Most of us would be happy if our government would just enforce the laws we already have. That would make a huge impact for the better, I think.

Thank you, L8, and the rest of the folks on this site, too, for making me feel welcome here. I love this site and as is plainly evident I am particularly fond of R&R. This is where we have a chance to swap information and discuss/debate ideas. I continue to learn a lot about your country and I have never, ever been made to feel unwelcome here as a foreigner. This particular thread has, as I have said, so stimulated my interest in this issue that I have gone on to learn that the issues are considerably more complicated than they may seem to the average liberal Canadian.

I am also fascinated by your above quoted reference to the 14th Amendment; this would indicate that your Constitution is, let us say, less flexible, perhaps, than our set of laws in many respects. Our system has been styled on and driven by the British parliamentary and legal tradition. This tradition insists upon democracy and upon both Parliamentary and legal debate and so is in the way of a safeguard against totalitarianism.

It is my understanding that your Constitution was constructed as a bulwark against any attempts to destroy the democratic rights of the citizens of your young Republic. At the time of the birth of your nation the parliamentary style of governance had little control over the caprices of the king. Of course by the time Canada came into existance the actual power of the monarchy had been pretty well smashed and parliament did hold all practical power. It is for this reason that we follow this system and we find that it works well for us. And, as I was saying, the system does permit a certain flexibility. Legislation which no longer works can be rewritten.

This is not intended to be a criticism of your system so much as an examination of the differences. I guess that I am learning something new and that I am working through this on this post....

Well, if the anchor baby bizness is written into the Constitution then it seems to me that the most logical approach to dealing with this flood of illegals would be to insist that the penalties for aiding and abetting illegals be severe and that manpower be devoted to penalizing the businessmen who hire them and the landlords who house them. I am thinking large financial penalties and possible slammer time.

[Marimaru 7]

My husband tells me he has read things that state that the Mexican gov't actually provides guides on how to enter the US illegally. I have not seen this documentation, he's just told me about it.

I believe the US gov't and the Mexican gov't both seriously need to overhaul their thoughts/policies/enforcement on this, whether the above is true or not. As has been stated, if companies would get in trouble for hiring illegals, and we didn't provide them with free healthcare, etc, etc, it wouldn't look so pretty here for them. Also, I know there are lots of illegal immigrants from other countries, but where I live, the Mexican population is the thickest and the most prominant... all countries who cause hordes of their citizens to run away just for something better need to rethink themselves.

Throw them all out vs give them all citizenship

I think that we could do both. There would need to be a penalty for having purchased ID's and whatnot, but to those people who are actually paying taxes, maybe we should offer them to help them gain legal status. The ones who are living on welfare, and sitting outside 7/11's and Home Depots looking for work, get the boot. I do feel compassion for these people, but non-action isn't the answer to compassion. And they knew what they were risking when they came over here illegally. I do not think we should put someone in prison for being here illegally. I think we need to send them home. If the gov'ts could work together, maybe we'd send them home and THEIR gov't would put them in prison, or something, I don't know. But I do know there are kind of 2 groups in the "illegal immigration" list; Those who come here because they want an opportunity to have a better life. They get jobs, and pay taxes, etc. And then the other group that is a total drain on our society. There's probably an inbetween, I don't know, and if anyone feels there are other groups I'm not thinking of, please tell me. I like to try to be as open minded as I can.

To Mark's question earlier (pages were added to this while I was out of town, lol), I can't answer whether I would enter another country illegally. I would like to think that I would work very hard to do it the legal way, but I've never experienced anything even close to what many of these people must go through to get them to uproot their lives, so I don't know what I would do.

[L8BloomR 1]

I am also fascinated by your above quoted reference to the 14th Amendment; this would indicate that your Constitution is, let us say, less flexible, perhaps, than our set of laws in many respects.

Green, if I remember my history correctly, the 14th amendment was to protect the rights of people living here but not considered "citizens", like slaves, etc. A necessary law, but one that seems to have grown beyond what it originally stood for.... hence, illegals rioting in the streets demanding their "rights" to U.S. social services and priviledges....

[green 6]

Green, if I remember my history correctly, the 14th amendment was to protect the rights of people living here but not considered "citizens", like slaves, etc. A necessary law, but one that seems to have grown beyond what it originally stood for.... hence, illegals rioting in the streets demanding their "rights" to U.S. social services and priviledges....

This is interesting and it makes sense. I would love to learn more.

[LadyLee 3]

I was just wondering what everyone thinks about the proposed changes in the laws for people that are here illegally. Do you think they should be given amnesty and legal status? Deported? What about their children who are born here and therefore are U.S. citizens? It just seems to me that to start out your life in a new country by breaking it's laws isn't right. :eek: What do you all think?

I think if you break the law and you are here ilegally with childern that were born in the U.S., you and your family should be removed, Deported, sent back to your country you can from. When the childeren turn 18 can come back. I work to hard, paying taxes, following the laws that were put into place by our goverment.

I just came back from China, they are much more together than we are, they have no welfare, homless, everyone works, there childern want an education. I feel they will pass us by, while we have so many problems with with homeless, welfare, ilegallys, high taxes, medical/dental system.

Ilegallys are causing U.S. people alot of money......... The U.S has caused these problems, employers hiring ilegallys, allowing then to stand on coners looking for work, doing nothing, let them proprest in the streets, doing nothing, let them file lawsuit case in our courts, doing nothing, healthcare system closing down, ect. ect. U.S. needs to rethink this problem.........

[green 6]

I have to disagree with your comments concerning China. China is a totalitarian country and is ruthless towards those citizens who disagree with governmental policy. The workers are paid little and work long, long hours in unsafe conditions because they have no choice. Those Chinese who are internet savvy cannot access controversial foreign websites for these are blocked by the government. The governmental policies towards their own minority populations, the Tibetans, Mongolians, and the ethnic Muslims eg, have been and continue to be Draconian. Rural Chinese still live in woeful ignorance and because of the one-child policy and their insistance on having boy children these villages are now largely devoid of young marriagable women. What they do have is gangs of aimless young men who know that they will never have families and who pass their days drinking, gambling and brawling.

Of course the country has no problem with illegals; no one wishes to immigrate but there are plenty of Chinese who are anxious to leave. Make no mistake: there are Chinese illegals living in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States. They are smuggled in by people whom they call 'snakeheads,' penned in cargo holds of ships and sometimes they don't make it to where they hope to go.

As for the environment, China is an environmental disaster. During the 1970s, when the Hippies over here were crazy about Mao, China was suffering through a terrible famine and millions of her people were starving. This disaster was covered up from the foreign press at the time. And now that China is converting from bicycles to gas-driven vehicles the environment is going to become much worse. And of course her factories are small, old, and inefficient with no quality or environmental controls. Yes, her economy is booming but at a cost which many of her citizens must bear.

As for my sources for the above statements these are various newspaper articles which I have read as well as memoirs written by Chinese writers.

[valzie 0]

I am with you guys. it is so hard to get to the US legally! I have a friend who had a girlfriend from Brazil and wanted to bring her here. It took 7 months and once she got here she had a terrible time and long wait to get the papers she needed to work. Since she has been here she is trying so hard to learn the language by going to classes. She has done it the legal way and in my opinion the right way.

What gets me so mad is the fact that in America you walk into a store and see signs in both English and Spanish. When my ansestors came from Italy did they have things printed in Italian for them? NO! What message are we sending to these people? Come to America and keep your own language we will accomodate you!! NOT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But how much of this is our own fought? Declare English as the national language. Right now we do not have one? Why??????

[Big As Life 0]

Don't get me started....I could rant and rave for hours.....I am totally against them coming here illegally.....