Illegal aliens

[*JASMINE* 1]

According to the Mexican gov't the average illegal from Mexico here has a 6th grade education. What jobs would you expect them to have?

This is yet another reason they are so damned expensive. The will NEVER be fully self sufficient. They will always be working poor even if they do have a job. That means welfare for life. We have US citizens that could use that welfare and they don't qualify. The resources are stretched too far so we can pay for people that shouldn't even BE here.

We have people that cannot afford medical care/insurance for their children yet they are paying taxes so illegals can have free medical care.

What about all the people right here on this forum that can't afford their own insurance so they travel to Mexico for everything from dental work, to lap bands, to open heart surgery?

Yeah, screw Americans and their needs, we need to take care of illegals because the bleeding heart liberals think that's a nice thing to do. How nice are we being to our own citizens? The very people paying the tab for illegals?

You know what? You feel the way you do. That's fine. I have no interest in getting into an argument with you. I pick my battles and save them to have in real life, not with an anonymous person online. I actually am more of just a lurker anyways.

You seem to have such hatred in your heart. I hope you do find some peace someday. To me, you display the same hatred as someone who is prejudice/racist (and believe me, I hate to play the "race card"). You are showing contempt for a whole group of people just because of the actions of a couple.

Anyways, flame me if you will (you have everyone else who disagrees with you). Rip apart every sentence that I write, as you seem to always do. At the end of the day, you have to look at yourself in the mirror and be at peace with who you are as a HUMAN BEING.

You seem to spend a lot of your time fighting with people on this board. I hope it gives you some satisfaction...Just one lurker's observation.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Having compassion for those less fortunate does not mean that this is "all some seem to worry about." In fact, this is just a part of the picture. I agree much stronger laws are needed, especially against American employers who make the jobs available (after all, illegal is illegal). But why is there not room for both?

I have no compassion for people who break laws and steal.

And, if there is no room in your heart for compassion for less fortunate individuals, why must you sarcastically belittle those of us who do feel this compassion? Again, you and I want the same thing: Stronger laws. The only difference is, I feel compassion for those less fortunate, and you don't. Why is there not room in your world for people who feel compassion? Why must everyone be as angry as you are?

Whoa there, I can have compassion for someone yet not want to pay for their six kids and them while they break our laws. Mark, I used to have compassion but I just plain ran out. Last stats I read show that 50% of all illegals from all countries enter through Arizona. The other 50% enter from all the other border states combined. I live in Arizona. I can't go to the damn grocery store without being hit up for money and threatened if I don't give them a buck. Same concept with going to Walgreens. Try going to any convenience store in many parts of Phoenix on a Monday AM. All the illegals are standing in the parking lot hoping for tax free day labor. I swear, I'm talking hundreds of illegals. You can't even park in the parking lot. What about the business owner of the convenience store? We have kids in our school that are US born Americans and they are sitting in Spanish only classes because that's the only seat left for them. My neighbors can't afford medical insurance, (entered legally from Mexico, took years to do) yet their property taxes were just increased so the illegals can have their free medical care at the county hospital. I have had it! I'm through, I have NO compassion for lawbreakers from other countries. None, nada, it's over. If that makes me a raving bitch, I can live with that. I am sick to death of this problem. It isn't getting better, it is getting worse.

I don't have the least bit of sympathy for illegals. None, they COULD have jobs in their own damn country. Their own farms are drying up and dying because they have NO workers! They are all over here working illegally. How much sympathy am I supposed to have for them when they have jobs available in their home country but welfare is a better bet?

I'll bet you if Uncle Sam quit signing their freebie everything all the time they would have little desire to stay here. They would go home and work for a living in their OWN country. What is the horror in that?

WASaBubble, can I ask you, if your family was suffering, would you cross the border illegally? Please be honest. And I am not asking you to explain how all these illegal aliens have a lot of children in a grand scheme to leech off the United States, or whatever. Please talk about that some other time. I'm just asking you a simple question. If your family was suffering, would you cross the border illegally?

If I was a Mexican citizen I would get a job in my own country since they most certainly do exist. This isn't a tough concept. It's not like they can't get a job in their own home country. That was the case at one time, it is no longer the case. So your "thoughtful" question is without merit.

I don't know if you have done much travelling, perhaps you have. But when I have travelled I have seen how the average American sucks up a hugely disproportionate share of the earth's available resources. This is an absolutely undeniable fact. We take much more than our share, by a HUGE proportion. I am not advocating feeling guilty about it, or anything like that. I just don't understand why, as we slam the door in the face of all these horrible illegals, why we must do it with anger. Slam the door, yes. But why the anger?

Do you live on a border state? Are your children or your neighbor's sitting in Spanish only classes? Is one of four children in your school either an illegal or anchor baby? Does your child's classroom teacher have to stop teaching every five minutes to explain a concept in Spanish for schools that are not big enough to have Spanish only classes? Are your ERs full to the point of 24 hour waits to see a doctor because illegals know if they go to an ER they don't have to pay for their medical care? Are people carrying a Mexican flag down your streets demanding "rights" for illegals? Are those same people who are protesting and demanding rights for illegals spitting (literally) in your face as you walk to work in the morning? Are 75% of the children born in your county hospital anchor babies paid for by tax dollars so the family can get freebie welfare? Are you at risk for losing your job because you don't speak Spanish while living in America? Is your jail so full your Sheriff had to build tent city to accomodate all the illegals? Is the federal gov't not paying the tab (as agreed previously) for housing illegal prisoners in your state? Are your state's taxpayers paying the bill instead? Is your Child Protective Services so severely backlogged that it can take weeks to check on any child? Do you know what can happen to a child in an abusive situation in a matter of weeks?

I can go on and on for hours. I'm sick of this, I hate it. I'm sick to death of the problem. Do you realize that it's the norm for people to walk down the street and see a couple of Mexicans... ANY Mexicans (legal or not) and refer to them as breeders? If they are on a date it is considered breeding season? That's how severe this problem is, that is what is has resorted to for many border states, this is how people are viewed since they come here and intentionally work on getting preggers for the welfare. This is how even legal Mexicans are viewed. If the legal Mexicans don't like illegal Mexicans, are they also heartless? Without compassion? I mean, I'm just wondering if it is only the white American born folks that are heartless for not having compassion for the poor dears. Or does that include legal Mexicans too?

[tanderson 3]

You seem to have such hatred in your heart. I hope you do find some peace someday. To me, you display the same hatred as someone who is prejudice/racist

At the end of the day, you have to look at yourself in the mirror and be at peace with who you are as a HUMAN BEING.

You seem to spend a lot of your time fighting with people on this board.

Oh sooooo true Jasmine, so true....

Peace Out!

T~:hippie:

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

You know what? You feel the way you do. That's fine. I have no interest in getting into an argument with you. I pick my battles and save them to have in real life, not with an anonymous person online. I actually am more of just a lurker anyways.

You seem to have such hatred in your heart. I hope you do find some peace someday. To me, you display the same hatred as someone who is prejudice/racist (and believe me, I hate to play the "race card"). You are showing contempt for a whole group of people just because of the actions of a couple.

Anyways, flame me if you will (you have everyone else who disagrees with you). Rip apart every sentence that I write, as you seem to always do. At the end of the day, you have to look at yourself in the mirror and be at peace with who you are as a HUMAN BEING.

You seem to spend a lot of your time fighting with people on this board. I hope it gives you some satisfaction...Just one lurker's observation.

Everyone is quick to ask questions but very few are answering them. You can pretend to suddenly be a lurker, that's cool. But do tell. Would SOMEONE please answer one question.

What is the horror of wanting people to follow our laws? I haven't seen a single person here write that it is a bad thing to have people move from outside the US ... to the US. Why is it a horror to expect them to do so legally?

We have laws, that's the way it is. Why is it unreasonable to expect people to follow them?

[tanderson 3]

If I was a Mexican citizen I would get a job in my own country

WABB, give me a break and while you're at it, get a life!

Peace Out!

T~:hippie:

[*JASMINE* 1]

Everyone is quick to ask questions but very few are answering them. You can pretend to suddenly be a lurker, that's cool. But do tell. Would SOMEONE please answer one question.

What is the horror of wanting people to follow our laws? I haven't seen a single person here write that it is a bad thing to have people move from outside the US ... to the US. Why is it a horror to expect them to do so legally?

We have laws, that's the way it is. Why is it unreasonable to expect people to follow them?

I completely agree with you. But it's not as black and white as you want it to be. The illegal, the Mexican government, and the U.S. employer are ALL at fault for the current problems. But the hatred you display is just geared towards the illegal. I think that the other two get lost in the delivery of your posts.

And I usually am just a lurker. I used to love to debate about issues at one time in my life, but really, it's not worth the stress. If you look at my previous posts, you will see that most of them are not in this section of the forum. I guess this is a sensitive subject for me, as well.

[marjon9 6]

According to the Mexican gov't the average illegal from Mexico here has a 6th grade education. What jobs would you expect them to have?

This is yet another reason they are so damned expensive. The will NEVER be fully self sufficient. They will always be working poor even if they do have a job. That means welfare for life. We have US citizens that could use that welfare and they don't qualify. The resources are stretched too far so we can pay for people that shouldn't even BE here.

We have people that cannot afford medical care/insurance for their children yet they are paying taxes so illegals can have free medical care.

What about all the people right here on this forum that can't afford their own insurance so they travel to Mexico for everything from dental work, to lap bands, to open heart surgery?

Yeah, screw Americans and their needs, we need to take care of illegals because the bleeding heart liberals think that's a nice thing to do. How nice are we being to our own citizens? The very people paying the tab for illegals?

I agree we need to put Americans first. That's why we need to come down like a sledgehammer on the American employers who hire illegals and make this whole mess possible. If it were not for them, if there were no jobs, why would anyone cross the border? These American criminal employers are breaking the law and "they are NO different from a drug dealer. They are breaking the laws just like a drug dealer."

I say put the burden where it belongs. On the people who are causing the problem.

[BJean 16]

Bubble, why do you ask others what they're doing about the situation? What are YOU doing, besides ranting and raving and blaming the illegal aliens for all the problems in your part of the world?

Do you really think that pointing out the horrors of the situation is going to fix it? Do you think that telling us how bad it is where you live is going to make us look at all Mexicans the way you seem to?

Why aren't you more angry at the government of your own country for not enforcing the laws and in fact encouraging illegal aliens from Mexico to come here and work and get other benefits? Why aren't you screaming from the rooftops about who is really to blame?

It reminds me of a place where I lived in Florida. They did not enforce the speed limit law or the law against running a red light. They didn't want to discourage tourism, which was a billion dollar a year industry. There were tons of accidents every week because everyone knew these laws weren't enforced and so they chose to drive above the speed limit and run red lights because they were always late for something. Yeah, the lawbreakers were wrong and were in fact, breaking the law, but who could blame them? They were essentially encouraged since everyone did it and they knew the laws weren't to be taken seriously because even the cops broke those laws and never enforced them.

It wouldn't have done one bit of good for me to rant and rave about the lousy drivers and the accidents they caused and rant and rave about the fact that they were breaking the law - nothing was going to change until the laws were enforced.

I started waging a campaign in the letters to the editor sections of the newspapers. Other people chimed in. Then more people started talking about the fact that there would be fewer accidents if these laws were enforced. One thing led to another and in a few years, the local government decided that they had to start enforcing the motor vehicle laws. Once people realized that they could be ticketed for breaking one of those laws, they stopped breaking them so often. Traffic accidents didn't cease to exist, but there were fewer accidents related to speeding and running red lights. But it didn't happen because I went online (or anywhere else) and bitched about the bad drivers.

[mrspruett 0]

I think if we released all the people in our prisons who committed a crime to "have a better life" then we would have a lot of empty cells. We either enforce our laws or we don't. If all the business owners who are giving people day labor and paying tax free were prosecuted, that would be a big help too. Having no tax free wages, no housing, no welfare, no free medical care, or no free education would go a long way in curbing the problem. Our country would become a lot less desirable to people wanting to enter illegally. This is a tough situation so we have to get tough to solve it.

[mrspruett 0]

FYI- for those of you who are interested the question of illegals is being debated rather heatedly in the Jerry Fallwell thread. Go figure! LOL

[*JASMINE* 1]

<p>

I think if we released all the people in our prisons who committed a crime to "have a better life" then we would have a lot of empty cells. We either enforce our laws or we don't. If all the business owners who are giving people day labor and paying tax free were prosecuted, that would be a big help too. Having no tax free wages, no housing, no welfare, no free medical care, or no free education would go a long way in curbing the problem. Our country would become a lot less desirable to people wanting to enter illegally. This is a tough situation so we have to get tough to solve it.

You're right. I think we need to enforce all of our laws. I wish I could say that we should work with the Mexican government to help better the living situations in that country, but it's not gonna happen.

I also think that our welfare system is screwed up. I hate to see so many people get over on the system. Legal or illegal. It's sad that a couple of rotten apples screw it up for the human beings that actually do need the help. But that's for another thread.

[JeninCO 0]

We are being squeezed from all sides.

Our taxes pay for schooling, health care costs for illegal immigrants while our own wages, health benefits, and on-the-job safety cut because millions of illegal immigrants compete by working for less, asking for less, and shutting their mouth about workplace safety violations.

Why else was the El Paso Independent School District forced to hold a $290 million bond election? To deal with the influx of illegal aliens.

Why are so many trauma centers and hospital emergency rooms across the country closing, shifting the burden to public hospitals? Because illegal aliens make up a great number of those living in America without health insurance.

Bring in 12 million people into the Social Security system, and we'll see the already frayed Social Security and Medicare systems ripped to tatters, as their paltry billions in contributions through illegally obtained Social Security Numbers - numbers with which they also fraudulently apply for and skip out on credit with, ruining the finances of their legal citizen victims - will not make up for the trillions they will take out of the system.

It is a myth that Mexican labors only perform jobs that Americans won't do. They have taken skilled jobs from American construction worker, electricians, and painters, not to mention that have mention the fast-food jobs that used to be the mainstay for are young workers.

I do not blame them -- I would do the same in their position. I blame the policies of the US that allow South American nations to be run by corrupt oligarchies who, despite abundant natural resources, starve their own people and drive them from their homes in order to survive. If the US does not find away to force these nations to provide for the general welfare of their citizenry, we will collapse under the weight of their people's desperation and become another third world nation, teaming with uneducated masses ruled by a wealthy minority.

[green 6]

It is human nature to migrate when the living situation becomes untenable. This has been the case throughout history. This is what the Okies did in the 30s when the land upon which they where living became a dust bowl. And when the Irish were dying of starvation during the terrible potato famine in the 18th century many of them migrated to America. There are also many economic migrants in the modern European Economic Union; these are workers who are moving from the poorer member states to the wealthier ones. And of course our forefathers were migrants. The Mexicans who come to the States are only doing what is human.

Nevertheless, the sheer numbers of the new arrivals are straining the social fabric and the infrastructure of your communities. This is the fault of governmental policies the way I see it. The way I figure it, the current laws which you have in place are not being used effectively against the folks who hire illegals and this may also mean that businesses in general are not being monitored about their employment practices the way they should.

Another thing: Mexico is the third party of the North American Trade Federation Association - NAFTA - which is a kind of European Common Market lite. Very lite. It strikes me that through this connection your president and the Mexican president should be having ongoing talks concerning ways to solve this problem. Obviously these talks should not be about building bigger and higher fences but about upgrading the economic health of the country and this is done by providing jobs and education for people in Mexico. You must remember that most people prefer to live close to their friends and family and all that they know and love. They only leave when they feel that they must.

I also believe that it will be crucial in the upcoming century that North America have a healthy, well-educated, and prosperous workforce. We will need this in order to survive the global challenges. Both India and China are emerging as powerful economies. And of course the Middle East will continue to be a bloody mess. :confused:

To return to Mexico for a minute: my husband and I have done a little travelling in Mexico and we are nuts about the country. It has deep colonial roots as well having had some of the most advanced Aboriginal cultures. We find the country rich in history, culture, and in natural beauty. And we have always been treated well by the local folk even though we don't speak a word of Spanish. :cry (Up here in Canada we learn high school French instead, eh! :phanvan )

[green 6]

We are being squeezed from all sides.

Our taxes pay for schooling, health care costs for illegal immigrants while our own wages, health benefits, and on-the-job safety cut because millions of illegal immigrants compete by working for less, asking for less, and shutting their mouth about workplace safety violations.

.

It is a myth that Mexican labors only perform jobs that Americans won't do. They have taken skilled jobs from American construction worker, electricians, and painters, not to mention that have mention the fast-food jobs that used to be the mainstay for are young workers.

I do not blame them -- I would do the same in their position. I blame the policies of the US that allow South American nations to be run by corrupt oligarchies who, despite abundant natural resources, starve their own people and drive them from their homes in order to survive. If the US does not find away to force these nations to provide for the general welfare of their citizenry, we will collapse under the weight of their people's desperation and become another third world nation, teaming with uneducated masses ruled by a wealthy minority.

And Jenin is absolutely right, the influx of this illegal labour has had a very direct and very negative impact upon your own labour force. It has driven down both the price of labour and the safety standards. It is more difficult for your working class to find jobs, these are less well paid than they were, and the health benefits and safety standards are crumbling. What you might save on cheaper foreign labour you lose in paying out in welfare for the unemployed. This is a tragic situation.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

WABB, give me a break and while you're at it, get a life!

Peace Out!

T~:hippie:

Do you even understand the issues being discussed here? I'm guessing not since you have nothing to add but insults. Nothing original, nothing of value, just slams.