Jerry Fallwell, Dead

[TommyO 5]

Sorry but I have been away for a while and probably won't be around much for the next few weeks/Months. I have done quick review of all that I have missed on LBT the last while and the Death of Jerry Fallwell and all of the posts on this thread seem kind of odd to me. Don't get me wrong, I could care a less if Fallwell is dead, it's just that I can't help asking what he thought about all the illegal aliens getting into the USA. I guess compasion is reserved for some. To bad!!!

[BJean 16]

Tommy you're a sweetheart but how do you conjur up some compassion for a guy who played dirty politics and attributed it to God's will? If he was really hearing voices and believed everything he said, I would indeed feel compassionate for him. I don't know what he thought about the illegal aliens but he probably thought they should be rounded up and deported, that is unless he owned a business that would be impacted by it. However I stopped listening to him years ago. I heard that he mellowed some, I just never saw evidence of that.

[green 6]

No compassion here for that gasbag!

[TommyO 5]

BJean, I have no compassion for Jerry Fallwell, I find(found) him and the filth he spewed disgusting. My issue is with how negative the comments have been about the illegal immigrants crossing the US Mexico border. I believe that those people deserve my support, I support the right for a woman to choose, I support Gay rights, I feel strongly that as someone who is lucky enough to have more that I need to stand up for those who have less. The folks who are crossing the border are doing so because they have less and want for a better life.

Someone said "send them to Canada", as a Canadian I say please do but I would bet that if they had better lives they wouldn't be illegally entering the US. Canadians are not entering the US for a better life because they already have a good life. Maybe the answer is to support initiatives that help Mexico as it continues down a journey to a strong economy and fair and honest Government.

We live in a Global world and as the world improves so do we, I know my beliefs are somewhat naive but I don't care. I grew up in the 60's/70's and I want nothing less than utopia. To say that Gay rights are important but only for those Gay folks that are citizens of my country would seem short sited. So to say that I am only interested in helping the poor if they are American citizens seems just as short sited.

I have not been able to keep up with all the goings on at LBT lately because life has become very busy so I have only skimmed through some of the threads. If I have misinterpreted what was posted on the illegal aliens thread the I apologize but it seems to me that some of the folks who are posting about Jerry Falwell and how bad he is because he spews hatred are in the next breath talking about the terrible illegal aliens and how they are stealing money and Jobs from American citizens. If you do the research you will find that this is often not the case.

[BJean 16]

Sounds like you have trouble with the logic of some so-called Christians too.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

BJean, I have no compassion for Jerry Fallwell, I find(found) him and the filth he spewed disgusting. My issue is with how negative the comments have been about the illegal immigrants crossing the US Mexico border. I believe that those people deserve my support, I support the right for a woman to choose, I support Gay rights, I feel strongly that as someone who is lucky enough to have more that I need to stand up for those who have less. The folks who are crossing the border are doing so because they have less and want for a better life.

Someone said "send them to Canada", as a Canadian I say please do but I would bet that if they had better lives they wouldn't be illegally entering the US. Canadians are not entering the US for a better life because they already have a good life. Maybe the answer is to support initiatives that help Mexico as it continues down a journey to a strong economy and fair and honest Government.

We live in a Global world and as the world improves so do we, I know my beliefs are somewhat naive but I don't care. I grew up in the 60's/70's and I want nothing less than utopia. To say that Gay rights are important but only for those Gay folks that are citizens of my country would seem short sited. So to say that I am only interested in helping the poor if they are American citizens seems just as short sited.

I have not been able to keep up with all the goings on at LBT lately because life has become very busy so I have only skimmed through some of the threads. If I have misinterpreted what was posted on the illegal aliens thread the I apologize but it seems to me that some of the folks who are posting about Jerry Falwell and how bad he is because he spews hatred are in the next breath talking about the terrible illegal aliens and how they are stealing money and Jobs from American citizens. If you do the research you will find that this is often not the case.

I find your comparisons of Falwell to illegals odd, to say the least. I also find it odd that you would bring up the topic of illegals in a Falwell is Dead thread a bit unusual, so be it.

You are clearly quite concerned about people that break the laws of another country for a better life. Tell me, what are you personally doing for illegals from all countries that are in the US? Are you giving them your money? Do you go there and volunteer your time? Are you working with their gov't to improve the political situations? How hard are you pushing to have them come to your country?

Exactly what are you doing to take this problem into your own hands? It's easy to point fingers and say others should take care of this problem, what are you currently personally doing about it?

[TommyO 5]

It's funny you should respond, the person who talks of how narrow minded right wing Christians are at the same time being just as narrow on the other side of the issue. You who was once just as zealous and as right wing Christian as those you now condem. I have no time for you or for anyone with such lack of insight. You are not Jerry Fallwell but you are a mirror image. I choose not to answer your silly questions, I now flick you off speck.

[BJean 16]

oooooh, snap! I hope you weren't talking to me.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

It's funny you should respond, the person who talks of how narrow minded right wing Christians are at the same time being just as narrow on the other side of the issue. You who was once just as zealous and as right wing Christian as those you now condem. I have no time for you or for anyone with such lack of insight. You are not Jerry Fallwell but you are a mirror image. I choose not to answer your silly questions, I now flick you off speck.

Who the heck are you writing to? I assume not me since you claim the person you are writing to was once a zealous and as right wing xtian as they come. I can only assume you are responding to someone else since you sure didn't answer any of the questions I posed to you.

Just what are you doing about this problem of illegals? The poor dears just want a better life, how much of a better life are YOU giving them?

[marjon9 6]

Who the heck are you writing to? I assume not me since you claim the person you are writing to was once a zealous and as right wing xtian as they come. I can only assume you are responding to someone else since you sure didn't answer any of the questions I posed to you.

Just what are you doing about this problem of illegals? The poor dears just want a better life, how much of a better life are YOU giving them?

I do agree that we need to have stronger border enforcement, but I also totally share TommyO's feelings of compassion for people who are just trying to find a way to have a decent life. When your kid is hungry it may be too much to ask to require that someone pay meticulous attention to what is "legal" vs. what is "illegal" in getting the kid some food. I know that I would cross the border illegally again and again if I had to. WASaBubble, can you honestly say you'd follow all the rules if your family was suffering? I just don't think so.

I also think it is perfectly legitimate to have this feeling of compassion whether or not a person is taking active steps to help people from another country. These are separate issues.

Still, I do agree that we need to have tighter border security for a lot of reasons. We can't take care of all the world's poor, and we can't leave the borders open for the next Osama bin Laden. So I totally agree that we need to improve border security. And most important of all, we need to take responsibility for our part in this. People come here because American employers hire them. If there were no jobs, they would stop coming. It's the same with the whole drug problem. Our whole nation is a vacuum cleaner for illegal drugs, yet in our minds it is the evil foreign drug dealers who are the problem. Americans can be such self-centered morons.

I guess my key issue in all this is that I believe it misses the mark to shut the border with anger in our hearts towards these people who are trying to find a decent life. Should we shut the border? Yes. But why is it necessary to do it screaming at them that they are "filthy illegals"? Or whatever. I can't bring myself to feel that way toward them. I know I would do the same thing they are doing, and I feel sure that most people on this board would also do what it took to feed their hungry children, legal or not.

And I also think it is beside the point to say that many illegal aliens are criminals who really are not even looking for a job, etc. That may be true criminals should be stopped no matter how they entered the country, and the problem with criminal illegal aliens is not where the 12 or 20 million people problems comes from.

I grew up in Los Angeles working in the restaurant industry. Most of the dishwasher positions and other janitorial type jobs were filled by illegals from Mexico. A bunch of them usually lived together in apartments in not so great parts of town and they sent most of their money home. Almost all of them were very hard working, cheerful and warm-hearted people. I can tell you it would have been very difficult to find Americans willing to do those jobs.

I am not setting forth this example as a way to justify illegal immigration. I support stronger border security. But I think it is unfortunate and unnecessary to close the borders with anger toward the people coming here. There is no reason for all the anger.

[TommyO 5]

BJean, No I was not directing my comments to you.

Speck, I was busy making my list of all the things I have been doing for the illegal immigrants in the US. I stopped however after I decided not to respond to such an infintile request. Seems the Neo Cons always resort to grade school tactics.

I know it is important to blame those who have less for their lot in life, it makes it easier when we take away the homes of the less fortunate when we see them as the problem.

I was going to ask a list of stupid questions but I see someone already did!!!

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I do agree that we need to have stronger border enforcement, but I also totally share TommyO's feelings of compassion for people who are just trying to find a way to have a decent life. When your kid is hungry it may be too much to ask to require that someone pay meticulous attention to what is "legal" vs. what is "illegal" in getting the kid some food. I know that I would cross the border illegally again and again if I had to. WASaBubble, can you honestly say you'd follow all the rules if your family was suffering? I just don't think so.

I also think it is perfectly legitimate to have this feeling of compassion whether or not a person is taking active steps to help people from another country. These are separate issues.

Still, I do agree that we need to have tighter border security for a lot of reasons. We can't take care of all the world's poor, and we can't leave the borders open for the next Osama bin Laden. So I totally agree that we need to improve border security. And most important of all, we need to take responsibility for our part in this. People come here because American employers hire them. If there were no jobs, they would stop coming. It's the same with the whole drug problem. Our whole nation is a vacuum cleaner for illegal drugs, yet in our minds it is the evil foreign drug dealers who are the problem. Americans can be such self-centered morons.

I guess my key issue in all this is that I believe it misses the mark to shut the border with anger in our hearts towards these people who are trying to find a decent life. Should we shut the border? Yes. But why is it necessary to do it screaming at them that they are "filthy illegals"? Or whatever. I can't bring myself to feel that way toward them. I know I would do the same thing they are doing, and I feel sure that most people on this board would also do what it took to feed their hungry children, legal or not.

And I also think it is beside the point to say that many illegal aliens are criminals who really are not even looking for a job, etc. That may be true criminals should be stopped no matter how they entered the country, and the problem with criminal illegal aliens is not where the 12 or 20 million people problems comes from.

I grew up in Los Angeles working in the restaurant industry. Most of the dishwasher positions and other janitorial type jobs were filled by illegals from Mexico. A bunch of them usually lived together in apartments in not so great parts of town and they sent most of their money home. Almost all of them were very hard working, cheerful and warm-hearted people. I can tell you it would have been very difficult to find Americans willing to do those jobs.

I am not setting forth this example as a way to justify illegal immigration. I support stronger border security. But I think it is unfortunate and unnecessary to close the borders with anger toward the people coming here. There is no reason for all the anger.

Mark...

I ran dry in the sympathy department years and years ago. I just don't have any left. I did in the beginning but when I see what I do on a daily basis, I'm completely out of sympathy and empathy.

Last week I was in Mexicali with a friend getting a band. The bellmen at the hotel and I know one another. I've been there so often lately that we are all getting to know one another. We were discussing illegals. He had questions for an American point of view and I had questions for a Mexican point of view.

He was telling me about his friends discussing sneaking across the border. They laugh at us, they told my bellman friend that all you have to do is go to America, have a couple of kids and you are set for life.

Doesn't sound like something where sypathy is really necessary.

At some point a little common sense has to kick in regardless of country. If you can't afford to feed yourself then it is pretty clear to most that you won't be able to feed six kids. Yet in Mexico that is the norm. Doesn't matter if you can afford them, have them anyway. Then when you have a mess and you can't afford what you knew you wouldn't be able to afford, move to the US illegally and let those who do have jobs pay your way in life.

People come over here NOT because they cannot afford their children. There are plenty that come over here illegally and try their best to breed like bunnies just for the speed of becoming legal. It's faster and easier when you have an anchor baby. Go to the county hospital in Phoenix ANY day and look at the line of illegals waiting for their free preggo tests. They are thrilled to death when they are finally preggers. It means welfare.

So please, don't make it sound to me like they are just looking to feed their children. They HAVE children so they can GET a free ride. Sure, there are people that want to feed their children but if you think they are the majority, you are in error.

Look at the farms in Mexico dying out right now. Know why their own farms are failing? All their workers are HERE illegally. So it isn't a matter of no jobs in Mexico. It is a matter of freebie welfare in the US. Let the Americans take care of them, who needs a freak'en job when Americans will pay them to be here illegally. If all the freebie everything came to a dead stop you would hear a huge sucking sound as they all run for their actual home... you know... where they belong.

Nope, no more sympathy. When I try to go to the grocery store and I am hit up each and every bloody time by an illegal wanting a hand out? I'm not even nice about it anymore. I tell them to go HOME.

Someday the people will start fighting back and it isn't going to be pretty. If the gov't won't do it, the people will. You watch. All my predictions regarding illegals have been right for the last 15 years. I'll bet you I am correct again this time.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

BJean, No I was not directing my comments to you.

Speck, I was busy making my list of all the things I have been doing for the illegal immigrants in the US. I stopped however after I decided not to respond to such an infintile request. Seems the Neo Cons always resort to grade school tactics.

I know it is important to blame those who have less for their lot in life, it makes it easier when we take away the homes of the less fortunate when we see them as the problem.

I was going to ask a list of stupid questions but I see someone already did!!!

Yep, pretty much what I thought. First you make huge assumptions and assume they are fact and then you sit back and expect everyone ELSE to fix the problem. But no, certainly not you.

[TommyO 5]

I have no expectation that anyone will fix any problem especially you. You are the Queen of assumption and unfounded statements but yet you continue.

I spoke to a bellman in Japan and he was full of insight as well. I have decided to base my political opinion on that conversation. It must be fact because the bellman at a hotel said it I think Homer Simpson would be proud of your sources. Have you spoken to any Mexican cab drivers lately? I bet they may be able to fix global warming.

Yep pretty much what I expected Duh!!!

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I have no expectation that anyone will fix any problem especially you. You are the Queen of assumption and unfounded statements but yet you continue.

I spoke to a bellman in Japan and he was full of insight as well. I have decided to base my political opinion on that conversation. It must be fact because the bellman at a hotel said it I think Homer Simpson would be proud of your sources. Have you spoken to any Mexican cab drivers lately? I bet they may be able to fix global warming.

Yep pretty much what I expected Duh!!!

It's much easier to slam everyone around you than to pitch in and help fix the problem yourself, isn't it? Just like it is much easier to point at everyone else and expect THEM to fix the problems. You wouldn't want to get your hands dirty, would you?

I assume nothing, however you sure jump to some amazingly huge opinions and then again, "assume" they are fact.

Next time try asking. You might be shocked to find out how wrong you are. Not that you could ever admit an error or anything.