Why is having surgery in Mexico such a taboo subject?

[swimbikerun 1,045]

I think there are good and bad, just like there are here in America. I also have to wonder about the $$$ factor.

The sources I have say that bariatric practices are high money makers and surgeons are the high RVU people. They have a vested interest in keeping people here in America. While I am sure some doctors bring up credible points, I have to wonder how much of it is patient concern and how much is the surgeon missing in lost opportunities. If say 10 people go to Mexico, and figure $25K for each surgery, that is 1/4 of a million bucks getting lost, not to mention pre op billing and after care visits. Bariatric practices were mentioned in one article I saw regarding propping up losing areas of hospitals, like ER's.

I doubt you will see many surgeons' saying this.

Btw, it isn't just America. Canadians do it because of the 3-4 or more years wait for surgery.

Edited October 27, 2014 by swimbikerun

[TheCurvyJones 721]

I had my surgery with Dr. Guillermo Alvarez with Endobaratric in Mexico. I felt like I was in expert hands and I wouldn't have had it any other way. I wish Dr. Alvarez was my primary care physician.

From everyone that I've talked to that had their surgery covered by insurance, Aftercare typically comes with the cost of the surgery, meaning they don't get paid to provide aftercare for a surgery they didn't perform.

Also keeping in mind that surgeons tend to be a little bit behind the eight ball… Think about it, some of the surgeons are still handing out RNY guidelines to VSG patients. Bariatric surgeons can't even come to a agreement on post surgery routines, let alone come behind another surgeon and provide support care for some other doctors work. He's already missing out on nearly $30,000 of income from a surgery he's not performed.

Many surgeons just feel that the work done in Mexico is subpar and they don't want to be responsible for any complications. That said, there are innumerable doctors in the Seattle area. It should be relatively easy to find a weight-loss surgery friendly doctor to provide after care for your daughter.

[TheCurvyJones 721]

Exactly! Many of the doctors that practice in Mexico were educated and trained in the US!

I have never talked to my surgeon in the US since I had the surgery. Any question I have had has been addressed by his nurse practitioner. Apparently it is beneath him to talk to his patients once he performs the surgery and collects your money. My office visits have been scheduled with the NP. The dr. never said, during our initial consultation, that his Nurse Practitioner would take over my care after surgery. Not that I have any issue with that overall, but I fail to see how his follow up is better then surgeons in Mexico. Assumption that surgeons in Mexico or any other country outside of the U.S. are substandard is full blown arrogance!

And see, when I was discharged from the hospital I received my surgeons office telephone number and an email address that he only gives to his patients. As well, he's very social media savvy so I could speak to him on Twitter or Facebook when ever I needed to. One of my friends had her surgery under insurance and she has seen her surgeon twice since deciding to have weight-loss surgery… Once during the pre-surgery process and once post surgery.

[swimbikerun 1,045]

One other thing missed: the competition between surgeons.

I won't go into it, but suffice it to say I've had surgeons get more catty about each other than women at that time of the month, all unmarried at age 35, and a billionaire single man in the room. I had one comment made that I remember to this day and I'm like ... children ... its like the My Dad Can Beat Up Your Dad school yard routine.

LOL

I had my surgery with Dr. Guillermo Alvarez with Endobaratric in Mexico. I felt like I was in expert hands and I wouldn't have had it any other way. I wish Dr. Alvarez was my primary care physician.

From everyone that I've talked to that had their surgery covered by insurance, Aftercare typically comes with the cost of the surgery, meaning they don't get paid to provide aftercare for a surgery they didn't perform.

Also keeping in mind that surgeons tend to be a little bit behind the eight ball… Think about it, some of the surgeons are still handing out RNY guidelines to VSG patients. Bariatric surgeons can't even come to a agreement on post surgery routines, let alone come behind another surgeon and provide support care for some other doctors work. He's already missing out on nearly $30,000 of income from a surgery he's not performed.

Many surgeons just feel that the work done in Mexico is subpar and they don't want to be responsible for any complications. That said, there are innumerable doctors in the Seattle area. It should be relatively easy to find a weight-loss surgery friendly doctor to provide after care for your daughter.

[jjinWA 511]

And see, when I was discharged from the hospital I received my surgeons office telephone number and an email address that he only gives to his patients. As well, he's very social media savvy so I could speak to him on Twitter or Facebook when ever I needed to. One of my friends had her surgery under insurance and she has seen her surgeon twice since deciding to have weight-loss surgery… Once during the pre-surgery process and once post surgery.

Yes I have seen my surgeon exactly 3 times. First time was Dec 2013 at the WLS seminar. Second time was the initial visit to decide if I wanted Sleeve or RNY. Third time was 2 weeks before surgery to discuss my preop diet... Grand Total time I have been in the same room with this man has been less then 20 minutes! He saw me headed from his office to the hospital across the street, a few weeks after surgery. I was in a wheel chair because I was deathly sick from dehydration and was on my way to do some blood work that his NP had ordered. We passed each other on the sidewalk. He said hello, how are you and kept walking! Obviously since I was in a wheel chair I was not at my optimal best! He was not too interested because he did not stop to talk. Just kept on going. And I paid him $28,000! Really? I am not saying he did not do a great job with the surgery. I believe he did. But his follow up sucks.

I expect better care from our surgeon in Mexico, based on what I have read in the posts on this site. We shall see.

[Kindle 8,667]

JjinWA, just so you know, any follow up your daughters may need with OCC will likely be with Dr. So, not Dr. Ortiz. Dr. So does the barium fluoroscopy and pulls the drain on day 3. He is OCC's designated followup doctor and the one I have communicated with the most. Dr. Ortiz and Dr. Martinez both did my surgery, and I've spoken with Dr. Martinez when Dr. So was unavailable. They were both very helpful when I was going through treatment for my C. diff infection two months postop. I've never actually asked to speak directly with Dr. Ortiz postop. And I never saw Dr. Ortiz after surgery because mine was the last one on December 20th and he left for Christmas vacation on the 21st....he was actually headed to Yellowstone National Park which is 2 hours from my house!

Edited October 27, 2014 by Kindle

[jjinWA 511]

Yes, I am aware that Dr. Ortiz works with a team at OCC, as is the case here with my surgeon and his team. I am perfectly fine with that. I am referencing the fact that my surgeon in the US is not so outstanding that he should put himself above the doctors in Mexico, and he should not be so arrogant to think that doing follow up for a surgeon in Mexico would be below him. I actually like the NP that works with my surgeon here in the US. She even stated she would be happy to do the followup work for my daughters, but had to get permission from dr. Houseworth. He is the one that declined and does not even see the patient!

[jjinWA 511]

So of course because he declined, she was not free to do the post op work for us because she works for him. Sad.

Edited October 27, 2014 by jjinWA

[Kindle 8,667]

????

[pinkbunies 359]

The hospital I was at was brand new. Older equipment doesn't mean the doctor can't do the job.

[swimbikerun 1,045]

Yep. I did get more followup with the surgeon, but some of that was due to the complications. His manner was something else. He blamed me for the problems. I had the psychologist who cleared me for surgery call my house and leave a message about in the 5th month after surgery. I told my counselor because I was mad.

My counselor went back and checked with the office. The surgeon called me, said it was all in my head and "I DID IT. I CALLED THEM". He didn't ask me, check with me, just did it. I don't know but I've seen other people get mad when a doctor does that.

The fact I turned up with physical problems explaining a number of issues, the HIPAA issue, etc. didn't help the issues.

Yes I have seen my surgeon exactly 3 times. First time was Dec 2013 at the WLS seminar. Second time was the initial visit to decide if I wanted Sleeve or RNY. Third time was 2 weeks before surgery to discuss my preop diet... Grand Total time I have been in the same room with this man has been less then 20 minutes! He saw me headed from his office to the hospital across the street, a few weeks after surgery. I was in a wheel chair because I was deathly sick from dehydration and was on my way to do some blood work that his NP had ordered. We passed each other on the sidewalk. He said hello, how are you and kept walking! Obviously since I was in a wheel chair I was not at my optimal best! He was not too interested because he did not stop to talk. Just kept on going. And I paid him $28,000! Really? I am not saying he did not do a great job with the surgery. I believe he did. But his follow up sucks.

I expect better care from our surgeon in Mexico, based on what I have read in the posts on this site. We shall see.

[Stevehud 1,790]

Okay first let me say, I am concerned. One A lot of people do not understand what a surgeon is. Now having been in and around the medical field most of my life, Both sisters nurses, one wither doctorate in nursing, mother was head of cardiology for many years, I was a secretary in cardiology, and an emt and medic.

Here is a list of things a surgeon is not:

A primary Care Physician

Easily accessible

A counselor

A diagnostician

A nutritionist

A bariatric Care Physician

Concerned with how much another surgeon got for his surgery, they are on staff at a hospital, they make what the hospital pays them.

very good with the outsides of people, but they are great on the insides, for the most part.

going to recognize you out of the thousands of surgeries they do.

However you should research your surgeon, ask questions, and if you think they are ignoring you, for god sake say so, to them. I have seen my surgeon twice each time for over an hour discussing things. I made sure to ask, does he use suture reinforcement materials, does he do an inflate test after, how will he handle, other issues I have. etc. I will see him again before the surgery then the day of the surgery the the day after the surgery, then two weeks after the surgery and we make a schedule after that.

Seriously if money was that big an issue then surgeons in Nevada where its average of 13 grand for the surgery would all move to Massachusetts where I am, which is the highest in the US at over 38 grand.

ALL I can say Is I would never go to Mexico for this surgery, without a team to support me, I would fail miserably, and any complications, like infections etc, ( I know someone said they had a c-diff infection) Im sure the facility is wonderful, in your opinion. And to the person who said that the assumption that US healthcare is better than the rest of the world , is arrogance. I say this, The truth is never arrogance.

[jjinWA 511]

I say there for but the grace of God go I. It is easy to say you will never go to Mexico when there are other options. We played the game and jumped the hoops to appease the insurance Gods. They and they alone decide our fate. That alone is a big problem in our society.

In any case, my ins approved my surgery, 'deeming it necessary' and my youngest daughter's ins did not approve because she was not over 40 BMI for the past 2 years. Oh and even though she is over 40 BMI now, she must work with a NUT for 6 months and show she can lose weight.... Oh wait.. If she loses weight she goes below 40 BMI and is denied again. Vicious cycle she was not going to win. My oldest daughter's insurance specifically excludes WLS. So no winning there for her either. So where do they, go from there? What are the options that you think they have? The youngest would not qualify for a $28,000 loan and even if she did should would not be able to make the payments. She is single and staying to pay student loans etc. The oldest has medical issues due to weight and paying those medical bills as we speak.

So option B is Mexico. Before you gloss over the qualifications of many of these surgeons, do your research. There are some that I would not cross the street for, but there are many that have been educated in the US and have the same credentials that my surgeon here in the US has. Many many patients cross the border for a multiple menu of medical services, including WLS and dental care. Like my daughters it is the only affordable option and thank God this option is available to those that are not fortunate enough to have the procedure in the US.

I stand behind my comment that the surgeon here in the US that refused to continue my daughter's care after she returned (mind you he was happy to take her money up front for the pretesting to the tune of several 100s of $s). It has nothing to do with liability and a whole lot to do with money, profit, and arrogance. That is the 'truth' as I see it.

I have seen several posts from patients on this site that have had complications, and some unfortunately very serious. If you search for those posts you will see that most of these cases had drs. In the US. Quality of care in the US and other countries is dependent on the facility and surgeon performing the procedure. To think that you cannot get good services in Mexico and to think that only the U.S. is qualified to perform WLS is a perpetuation of ignorance.

Edited October 27, 2014 by jjinWA

[jjinWA 511]

I say there for but the grace of God go I. It is easy to say you will never go to Mexico when there are other options. We played the game and jumped the hoops to appease the insurance Gods. They and they alone decide our fate. That alone is a big problem in our society.

In any case, my ins approved my surgery, 'deeming it necessary' and my youngest daughter's ins did not approve because she was not over 40 BMI for the past 2 years. Oh and even though she is over 40 BMI now, she must work with a NUT for 6 months and show she can lose weight.... Oh wait.. If she loses weight she goes below 40 BMI and is denied again. Vicious cycle she was not going to win. My oldest daughter's insurance specifically excludes WLS. So no winning there for her either. So where do they, go from there? What are the options that you think they have? The youngest would not qualify for a $28,000 loan and even if she did should would not be able to make the payments. She is single and staying to pay student loans etc. The oldest has medical issues due to weight and paying those medical bills as we speak.

So option B is Mexico. Before you gloss over the qualifications of many of these surgeons, do your research. There are some that I would not cross the street for, but there are many that have been educated in the US and have the same credentials that my surgeon here in the US has. Many many patients cross the border for a multiple menu of medical services, including WLS and dental care. Like my daughters it is the only affordable option and thank God this option is available to those that are not fortunate enough to have the procedure in the US.

I stand behind my comment that the surgeon here in the US that refused to continue my daughter's care after she returned (mind you he was happy to take her money up front for the pretesting to the tune of several 100s of $s). It has nothing to do with liability and a whole lot to do with money, profit, and arrogance. That is the 'truth' as I see it.

I have seen several posts from patients on this site that have had complications, and some unfortunately very serious. If you search for those posts you will see that most of these cases had drs. In the US. Quality of care in the US and other countries is dependent on the facility and surgeon performing the procedure. To think that you cannot get good services in Mexico and to think that only the U.S. is qualified to perform WLS is a perpetuation of ignorance.

Edited October 27, 2014 by jjinWA

[islandgirl2009 5]

Hi I'm new and i am planning to go to Mexico 2015, Because my ins do not cover WLS