To Spank or not to Spank

[TracyK 3]

Since I assume that I am the member that TracyK is referring to, I'll chime in here. I believe abortion is acceptable because I don't believe a fetus is a child until it reaches reliable viability. ]

Yes, you are the one I was referring to. Glad to hear that we do not completely disagree on the spanking thing. Sometimes, it is very necessary.

One more thing....I can really tell that you have never been to a 8 week gestation ultrasound and seen that little heartbeat on the screen. If that isn't a child, I do not know what is.......there is nothing more precious.

[anonemouse 1]

One more thing....I can really tell that you have never been to a 8 week gestation ultrasound and seen that little heartbeat on the screen.

No, I haven't. It wouldn't budge my beliefs, though, I can tell you that. Yes, a fetus has the potential to become a lovable (to some) little baby. Until it can live outside its living incubator, though, it isn't.

[anonemouse 1]

Let me put my beliefs this way:

My dad is a veterinarian. I've watched and assisted with many cesareans of animals that couldn't give birth on their own. I think anyone that would kill newborn animals is a disgusting human being. They're helpless, and yes, at that point, they are living, breathing creatures. I have also watched and assisted my dad with many spayings of already pregnant animals. It does not bother me to watch him dispose of those fetal kittens or puppies. Why? Because they are not able to live outside their mother. They are not individuals, at that point.

I really, honestly see abortion in the same light. Until that fetus can live outside the mother, it isn't an individual.

[TracyK 3]

The last thing I am going to say on this subject....you can't say for certain your view wouldn't change..people change their views all the time.

God does not make mistakes. :myscared:

TracyK-out

[anonemouse 1]

Well, since I'm an Atheist, you probably would understand my stance on that. I think NATURE makes mistakes all the time. (Well, nature isn't sentient, so techically can't make mistakes, but you understand.) Fortunately, in some cases, those mistakes can be corrected by us.

[TracyK 3]

Whoa...that explains alot. I figured as much. Sorry to hear that.

I am quite sure at least 95% of the living beings around here are glad their moms didn't abort them...

[anonemouse 1]

Whoa...that explains alot. I figured as much. Sorry to hear that.

I'm really hoping you don't understand how offensive that statement is. Otherwise, I'm incredibly disappointed in you. I thought you were a decent person to know and debate with.

[Devana 0]

Whoa...that explains alot. I figured as much. Sorry to hear that.

What does that explain and why? What are you suggesting about atheists when you say that?

[Devana 0]

I should add -- I think people who have experienced child abuse have a very reasonable and understandable objection to spanking. Child abuse is a horrible, horrible thing and I'm sure never leaves the psyche. Vehement reactions to anything resembling those childhood experiences (as different as reasoned, calm, disciplinary spanking is) are completely understandable.

I have a vehement reaction to "reasoned, calm disciplinary spanking" which in my opinion amounts to ritualistic abuse.

It is very possible for someone who has not experienced abuse as a child to have strong objections to spanking.

[gadgetlady 4]

Abortion NO / The Center for Bio-Ethical Reform

The pictures are pretty gruesome, but it shows what REALLY happens in abortion, and that what's growing inside the womb isn't just a blob of tissue. Babies pulled apart limb from limb -- the ultimate child abuse.

[Devana 0]

People seem to confuse good child rearing with assault. I happen to believe that these bleeding-heart parents that didn't spank their children when they needed it is the cause of so much disfunction in the world. So many younger people these days feel like everyone owes them something. There are too many spoiled kids...and guess what, they grow up to be spoiled brat adults.

Parents who chose not to physically assault their children are bleeding hearts?

Do you honestly think that if more people spanked their children there would be less dysfunction in the world? The most troubled kids I have known and currently know have been spanked (not beaten I hasten to add).

One of the big problems today is that many children have lost their "attachment" to their parents and other significant adults in their lives. An unattached parent can spank till the cows come home and that child will still have no investment in trying to please that parent. And conversely a well attached child will not develop huge behaviour problems despite of, not because of spanking.

[tink128 0]

Hi Angel, Hope you are well with the new band.

I believe there is never a situation in which it is acceptable to strike a child. Hitting a child is an act of violence, end of story. Children's behaviour definately needs to be managed and guided but I believe we are adults and should be able to resolve issues in a manner which does not involve physical violence.

Susannah

Hitting is different than spanking. Hitting is done in anger and out of control and often done more than once. Spanking on the other hand is done once in an area that would not seriously damage the child(the rump) and is never done in anger. It is done controlled and is always followed with the conversation that the child was spanked for the behavior not because of who they are and followed up with many reassuring words and kisses of love.

[tink128 0]

Let me put my beliefs this way:

My dad is a veterinarian. I've watched and assisted with many cesareans of animals that couldn't give birth on their own. I think anyone that would kill newborn animals is a disgusting human being. They're helpless, and yes, at that point, they are living, breathing creatures. I have also watched and assisted my dad with many spayings of already pregnant animals. It does not bother me to watch him dispose of those fetal kittens or puppies. Why? Because they are not able to live outside their mother. They are not individuals, at that point.

I really, honestly see abortion in the same light. Until that fetus can live outside the mother, it isn't an individual.

Scary! Humans are not animals. No comparison!

[anonemouse 1]

Scary! Humans are not animals. No comparison!

I did not say they were animals, did I? Although, we are, biologically. Anyway, I was using the situation I described to illustrate my viewpoint about abortion. Non-viable fetal animals or fetal humans, it doesn't matter. They aren't living, breathing individuals. Once they're born (or once they reach the point of reliable viability), the matter changes.

[Debbydo 0]

Why does the abortion debate leak into everything else?????????<br /> <br />

I thought this was a thread about spanking. The I don't feel like parenting so I'll whack at you instead.

Stop hitting our children.