abortion

[Debbydo 0]

Ohhh about the man thing>

I absoltuley believe they have the right to an opinion and say on what's going on. So you go guys that weighted in on this and stay connected.

[musicalmomma 1]

I have to agree....this has been the BEST debate over the topic I've EVER seen in my life. No one's gotten mean or made personal attacks!! Aren't we all a bunch of mature folks! lol!!

[marjon9 6]

Here's an article about a Japanese hospital that has a "drop box" for unwanted babies. It's basically a "pro-life" solution. Anyone think it's a good idea? Would it work here?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/05/10/japan.babybox.ap/index.html

[Debbydo 0]

Hi Mark,

We have that system here in New York state anyway. Every emergency room, fire house or police station is designated a Safe Haven. A no questions asked, we would try and find you again place for a baby. In addition there are clinics and other outpatient facilities that display the safe haven sign for a girl in distress that needs to walk away at that moment.

It's sad but very safe alternative for the baby as compared to some of the horror stories you hear about babies being found dead.

I would hope this is duplicated in other areas of the country?????

[green 6]

Yep, I read about the Japanese drop off box. I think that it's a good idea and an excellent option. Japan has one of the lowest birth rates in the industrialised world, I gather.

[Marimaru 7]

I'm pretty sure you can drop a kid off at any emergency room and it would be cared for. Probably the parents would be searched for, if the baby was just left there and not dropped off as a known unwanted child or something.. I dunno.

Regarding the guys; I do think that if a guy doesn't want a baby, but the pregnant woman intends to keep it, he should be able to sign some kind of waiver... it SHOULD be something that is agreed upon one way or the other, but too many people get together casually and non-protected, and there's no background or anything between the couple. Regarding her having the baby and handing it to him for care, I think it's a good option, but I think it would be more difficult to get women to agree to that. Like other posters have said, a lot changes in a woman's body with pregnancy, some of which just isn't going back to the way it was. A lot of "girls" aren't willing to go through that and 'do that to themselves'. Also, what if the baby is born, and the parent who signed the waiver then decides they want to participate? Does the parent who was originally taking 100% responsibility of the child then get to decide whether the other person gets to be involved? Unfortunately this whole thing is SO gray...

There was a poster who said that it's good that children can get abortions without their parents knowing, because some parents are violent, or would force them to have the child; I get what you are saying, but I still don't think it's right. I'm not sure I have a better answer. I mean, I was about to say something like "maybe the clinics offer some kind of shelter for kids who's parents react that way" but that still doesn't get them the medical clearance of the parents... so another gray area, I guess. And, on another (possibly hypocritical) note, I do agree with the idea that kids can go to their doctor and ask for birth control without their parents consent...

[bitteroldhag 0]

Just try to remember that this "imposed morality" wasn't even a consideration until the 1960's. Yes, there were a few back alley abortions prior to that time and some women died. But far MORE women have died since making it legal, because we're aborting babies at mind boggling rates. Before the 60's it wasn't an issue, you got pregnant, you had a baby. So, to say that in 50 years I'm pushing a moral issue, when we've had 200 years of no abortion is a bit of a stretch to me. If you feel I'm weaving a tangled web, well that's OK. I'm solid in my beliefs and again, like I said, I don't expect to change anyone's opinion on the subject, was simply answering the original question. You won't change my opinion, I won't change yours. So bantering back and forth will not be productive for either of us

I wonder how old you are? In the period before legalized abortions, plenty of women had abortions and many died of complications. One did not necessarily just have the baby and put it up for adoption. Lots of people did that, but back-alley abortions have been around for at least a hundred years. My own abortion was illegal and performed in a Holiday Inn. Good, aseptic conditions, no?

[green 6]

In the good old days women did have abortions and sometimes women died from these or were rendered incapable of having children in the future. Sometimes these abortions were performed by individuals who weren't trained and sometimes they were performed by doctors who may have been motivated by money - doctors didn't earn all that much in those days - or who may have been motivated by compassion for the women who came to them. And of course those unwanted babies who did come to term usually didn't fare so well.

In those same good old days, the ones before medical technology was where it is today and before we had antibiotics, a comparatively recent development, childbirth was also perilous and women often died. Sometimes they bled out, sometimes they died of puerperal fever, sometimes of other causes. We like to think that all women are capable of giving birth in a field, taking a break from gathering in the animals, but this is not so.

We women are fortunate to be living in the present time. We really do have a choice. We can choose to go ahead and safely have our babies. We can choose to keep them and raise them even if we are not married or we can give them up for adoption knowing that they will not languish in orphanages but will find good and loving parents. We can also choose to not proceed with our pregnancies. And should we opt for this, we will not be risking our lives and health. All of this is a very good thing in my opinion.

[lizrbit 0]

im pro choice.

[green 6]

As for the guy thing, I still strongly believe that women must have the final say for, afterall, it is the woman who carries the burden of the pregnancy and who may be left alone to raise her child.

But I do feel that when a man has been trapped into fathering an unwanted child he should have some protection. Until I retired I worked mostly with men. I was shocked at how many of the young ones were paying child support to former girlfriends and how often they told me the same story which runs along the following lines: he would be going out with a girl for a few months, have unprotected sex with her because he had been assured that she was taking care of business only to have her announce that she was pregnant.

My niece went out with a guy. He ejaculated at the mouth of her vagina. She found herself pregnant, and decided to keep the baby. When the child was two the father began to visit her from time to time up until the day he got married. His new wife then insisted that he cut off relations with his child. He never told his family about his child; they were a traditional Italian family and would disapprove, he said. When my niece decided that she would phone his parents in order to tell them about their granddaughter they told her they wanted nothing to do with the child. My niece tells me that my great niece, now 7, is dejected that she doesn't see her father. He is good about paying his child support.

This is where I find myself in a bit of a quandary. I love my niece and her daughter and yet I do feel sorry for this guy. He had lousy sex and now he is on the hook financially for many years to come.

[anonemouse 1]

To be honest, I have very little sympathy for people who should have known better. I have always been taught that, in cases like birth control, you don't trust the other person. If you want to protect yourself, you protect yourself. You can't expect other people to look out for your own best interests. Personal responsibility is a wonderful thing. If you don't want to risk getting a woman pregnant, wear a condom or get a vasectomy.

[anonemouse 1]

My brother found out that his girlfriend was pregnant about two weeks ago (she had a miscarriage this past week, but that's beside the point). I don't think he knew what to think about it. They were (and may still be) going to get married this summer, because of the pregnancy. My parents and I never said it to his face, but the comment was made amongst us that, "If he didn't want a baby and didn't want to marry his girlfriend of less than 5 months, he knew how to avoid it."

[marjon9 6]

To be honest, I have very little sympathy for people who should have known better. I have always been taught that, in cases like birth control, you don't trust the other person. If you want to protect yourself, you protect yourself. You can't expect other people to look out for your own best interests. Personal responsibility is a wonderful thing. If you don't want to risk getting a woman pregnant, wear a condom or get a vasectomy.

I agree with Laurend (as I often do). And I would like to add something else. I also don't feel sorry for this guy for another reason. That is, there is nothing to feel sorry for. Being on the "hook" to take care of a child for many years - especially your child - is more of a blessing than a curse, even if you never see the child. Successfully meeting this responsibility is probably one of the best things in this guy's life. I think people should be grateful when they are given the opportunity to do the right thing in challenging circumstances. Meeting those challenges with honor and integrity is what makes us respect ourselves. It's what makes life thrilling, and it is what allows "fun" times to be fun. Without integrity and self respect, life is pretty much flat, boring, and not worth very much. These rich kids who party all day and night, with nothing to do and no responsibility, don't seem very happy to me.

[green 6]

Yep, I tend to agree with you, Laurend, in theory. This business does become somewhat trickier with respect to human relationships when your partner insists that she is on the Pill.

I am of another generation. When I was young women did seem to be more inclined to take care of sexual business. None of us wanted the stigma or the hassle of an unwanted pregnancy and the pill was available. We all had sex and we were all on the Pill.

There does, however, seem to be a different culture out there. Young women, often ones who haven't even finished highschool, seem to want to have babies. That they are often still living at home, don't have jobs or are working at minimum wage, and aren't in stable relationships doesn't seem to bother them at all.

My own niece did everything back to front. She got pregnant and had her child while she was in her early 20s. She has since gone back to university in order to be able to teach. This has been tough for her because she is a single mother. She is now finishing off her university work at the age of 31. She is now overweight and she has a child. She is worrying about finding a teaching job, about her child who has been diagnosed with severe dyslexia, and about ever meeting a man. Her sister and her brother went to university, got degrees in engineering, found mates, married, have careers and own property. One of them has just had a daughter. They are both younger than she is. Their lives have progressed much more smoothly than hers has. This makes me sad on her behalf for I am enormously fond of her.

[green 6]

I agree with Laurend (as I often do). And I would like to add something else. I also don't feel sorry for this guy for another reason. That is, there is nothing to feel sorry for. Being on the "hook" to take care of a child for many years - especially your child - is more of a blessing than a curse, even if you never see the child. Successfully meeting this responsibility is probably one of the best things in this guy's life. I think people should be grateful when they are given the opportunity to do the right thing in challenging circumstances. Meeting those challenges with honor and integrity is what makes us respect ourselves. It's what makes life thrilling, and it is what allows "fun" times to be fun. Without integrity and self respect, life is pretty much flat, boring, and not worth very much. These rich kids who party all day and night, with nothing to do and no responsibility, don't seem very happy to me.

Thanks, Mark, those are splendid words and I will pass them on to my niece. And you and Laurend are right. I really shouldn't feel sorry for these men. They must be prepared shoulder the responsibility for their fun; afterall, we women have to.