abortion

[green 6]

To be perfectly correct, Ousooner, and I will say right now that I very much respect you yourself and the peaceable and dignified fashion in which you always express your views, Mark has been asking questions, pointed ones to be sure. He has not been telling other folks how they should manage their lives or what their personal ethical standards should be on this particular question. I still believe that women must have the final word in the abortion debate; they are, afterall, the ones left paying the price.

[marjon9 6]

To be perfectly correct, Ousooner, and I will say right now that I very much respect you yourself and the peaceable and dignified fashion in which you always express your views, Mark has been asking questions, pointed ones to be sure. He has not been telling other folks how they should manage their lives or what their personal ethical standards should be on this particular question. I still believe that women must have the final word in the abortion debate; they are, afterall, the ones left paying the price.

The one who is pregnant absolutely must have the final word. With that I agree completely.

[ousooner 1]

I am not telling anyone they don't have a choice to have a baby or not. My only point, and this is for men and women, make that decision before you have sex. Any sex can result in pregnancy no matter what precautions you might take. All I am saying that if you choose to have sex, their might be consequences. This is not about religion or morals, its about personal responsibility and accountability. Flame me if you want

[wavydaby 1]

I think that the man may have some rights in this. If a man wants a woman to have an abortion and she doesnt, he can not make her. Make laws available that if he requested this and she denied that he can waive parental right and responsiblity, ie child support.

If she wants one and he wants the child. Its gets very grey. My body and my right.

Adoptions can get very harrowing due to the father rights. Its again, not cut and dry.

[green 6]

Oops! It seems that our posts have kind of crossed in the mail. And yes, that was me, Green, who was sounding both closed-minded and undoubtedly strident as well. This is because I always become edgy and nervous when thinking of male legislators having the power to determine the rights or lack of rights that women will have over their own bodies.

To have a child is a terribly big commitment on the part of a women, physiologically, psychologically, and financially. As I have previously mentioned, some of the changes in her body are very unpleasant, even for a woman who is anxious to have a child, and some of these changes will have long-term repercussions on her physical health. There are also emotional stressors to contend with and these are created by the fluctuations in hormone levels. These occur throughout the pregnancy and after the birth. Tough to get through when you want the child, and a nightmare when the pregnancy was the result of one bad night...or a couple of minutes. Then there is the financial cost of health care, maternity clothing, etc.

The man's participation practically speaking starts and stops at his orgasm. That's it! He can continue going to university. He find a new girlfriend. He decide to stay with his wife, afterall. He can move to a new state. He can do whatever he likes.

[anonemouse 1]

I am not telling anyone they don't have a choice to have a baby or not. My only point, and this is for men and women, make that decision before you have sex. Any sex can result in pregnancy no matter what precautions you might take. All I am saying that if you choose to have sex, their might be consequences. This is not about religion or morals, its about personal responsibility and accountability. Flame me if you want

Personally, I believe that having an abortion (for most women) is taking responsibility and accountability for your actions. I know that if I was sexually active right now and got pregnant, I would most likely have an abortion. My point is that someone having an abortion doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't taking full responsibilty for their actions. Every sane woman knows that pregnancy is a likely outcome of sex. By having an abortion, IMO, many women are taking responsibility for their actions and acknowledging that they can't take care of a child, for whatever reason. It is much more irresponsible, IMO, to bring a child into this world that you can't take care of.

[Daisalana 33]

I think men should have a say in it. It's not their body, but it's their baby/fetus/zygote, whatever you want to label it. I've seen men absolutely devastated by their girlfriend's/wives miscarriages, as early as 3 months.. I've seen men torn apart knowing their girlfriend had an abortion. Maybe not all guys care, and sure there are 'scumbags' out there who don't care, but as a whole I think men have equal say in what happens to their (whatever you want to call it). If you don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex. If you want to have sex and don't want to get pregnant, tie your tubes, snip your man, take a pill, get an IUD, get a diaphram, get a patch, try the 'pull out' method (this isn't extremely effective-and I don't endorse it, but % statistics are better than not 'pull out'). Don't be lackadaisical about it. I'm pro-life if you can't tell. The pro-choicers make excellent arguments, but I'm inclined to believe what I believe.

[green 6]

I am not telling anyone they don't have a choice to have a baby or not. My only point, and this is for men and women, make that decision before you have sex. Any sex can result in pregnancy no matter what precautions you might take. All I am saying that if you choose to have sex, their might be consequences. This is not about religion or morals, its about personal responsibility and accountability. Flame me if you want

Ousooner, while abstinence is an approach which will work well in theory, particularly if men can also find it within themselves to commit to this, too, something which I find kinda hard to imagine I must admit, this approach will only work with a certain kind of individual. You must remember that the sexual revolution has happened and that is a genie which cannot be easily stuffed back into the bottle. Abstinence may work on the many folk who function within a strongly faith-based church-going environment.

This is, however, an argument which will never fly for those individuals who function outside such an environment, and there are many of us. The sexual revolution has taken place and most of these individuals regard sex, that is friendly boyfriend/girlfriend sex without the further commitment of marriage and parenthood, as one of the rights of adulthood.

The trouble, too, is that humans are hard-wired to want to have sex and even those young men and women who fully intend to be abstinent can find themselves carried away, end up going too far just one time.... Then a really nice decent young girl finds herself pregnant and she hasn't even finished school.:cry

[anonemouse 1]

I think that the fathers should have a vote, but I think the final say should rightly lie with the mother. I don't want anyone forcing me to give birth to a child that I don't want. If there was a way to transfer a fetus to the father or another woman or an artificial womb, I'd be all for it, but as long as the mother is required to carry the child until it is born, she should have the final word on whether or not to have an abortion.

I also think that if the father wants the baby and the mother doesn't, he should be required to offer her a surrogacy contract, so that he would be legally tied to the child and so that the mother would be fairly compensated for her time, effort, and pain.

[Daisalana 33]

I'm all for a man having to sign something before birth saying he is legally responsible if the mother doesn't want it. I thought they did have that? And that's where I feel a man has rights to be involved in it. If the man wants the child, and the mother doesn't, he should be able to sign something saying he will be 100% responsible. Just like I don't think a man should be able to force a woman into having one (I've seen it), the woman shouldn't 'force' a man to give up his child-if that's how he perceives it.

[musicalmomma 1]

Sorry, Mark. According to the others, mine and your opinions are not wanted or needed because we are men.

That's not necessarily true...if you agree with the pro-choice side, they'd love to hear from you! LOL sorry, just couldn't resist! I'm totally kidding, so please don't jump all over me.

[musicalmomma 1]

...The man's participation practically speaking starts and stops at his orgasm. That's it! He can continue going to university. He find a new girlfriend. He decide to stay with his wife, afterall. He can move to a new state. He can do whatever he likes.

I'm sure most men would LOVE this logic...especially if she keeps the baby...cuz after all, his participation ends at the orgasm, so he doesn't need to support the baby. Can't cut it both ways...if he's going to be responsible to support a child, he should have SOME right to AT LEAST discuss the decision with the mother.

[badonkadonkbutt 1]

I agree with you Debbydo. I am pro-choice to a point and I feel that partial birth abortions are wrong unless there is going to be something horribly wrong with the baby. I also know someone who has had multiple abortions as a form of birth control. As a mother of three, I don't know if I could do it. If I was raped and got pregnant, I could, so there are some situations that I agree with. I also have to say that I feel men should have a say in the life of the child they helped to create. I don't think they should be able to force a woman to have an abortion, ultimately it is her choice, but he did help create the child. If he wants to take and raise the child on his own, then I think the thought needs to be entertained rathering than aborting the pregnancy. I understand that woman still have to carry the babies but I would hope that if you were close enough to someone to sleep with them you would be close enough with them to be honest about the pregnancy.

[Wheetsin 714]

If I was raped and got pregnant, I could, so there are some situations that I agree with. I also have to say that I feel men should have a say in the life of the child they helped to create.

Would this include the rapist/father?

When you start making exceptions, is when things get really gray. That's part of the real kicker with these issues.

[Debbydo 0]

OK I'm again going to mention I am pro choice up to a certain gestational age with that being said::

Maybe some people don't realize when a pregnancy goes to the 20 plus week mark up to 26 which is what's leagal.

They have to do a partial birth abortion. They pull the baby out "partly", break the neck and take out the spinal fludid with a needle.

I'm not a clinician so I may have flubbed the terms.

So, don't think I want to take away a women's right to choose but c'mom give me a break. It's a baby. If the mom was induced at that time without any medical help to abort, it would be a live birth with a future.

I'm glad to see there are all different opinions and were not slinging mud yet...