PBS special "The Mormons" made me furious!

[sweethot143 2]

Why are you so mean?

I don't understand. Are you saying that calling someone "Gay seeming" or "feminine" is mean?

See, I don't think of it as insulting or mean to say that someone is Gay or that they act feminine.

I guess if you knew the wide variety of Gay men that I do, you would start to see some similar patterns in some of them. While some Gay men are very masculine, others are very feminine, and some are right down the middle. But I have never met a straight man who was actually straight, who acted effeminate, because they always turn out to be Gay.

I think you know what I mean by effeminate. I think you probably have seen some depictions on tv or mabe even know some people who seem "swishy" or fay. Of course not all Gay men are like that, (in fact I know some who do crush beer cans on their head and love sports, etc.) but some of them are for sure. They even joke about it with each other and will say "oh you're such a girl!" or "stop being such a poof" (that's the British version). In fact, there is some backlash within the Gay community against men who act "too effeminate". Here's a link to a great book (written by a Gay man) about this:

http://www.amazon.com/Sissyphobia-Gay-Men-Effeminate-Behavior/dp/1560239905

Well, the men I saw on this special just came off as being very feminized and actually, when I talked to some of my Gay friends about it who had also seen it, we were cracking up because they thought the same thing on their own!

I think it's wonderful for men to be sensitive and to be in touch with their feminine side, but when they're very in touch with it to the point they act "poofy" then they usually turn out to be Gay.

And, there is nothing wrong with any of these things whatsoever, and I don't consider it to be an insult in any way to say that a man acts feminine or that he might be Gay.

I found that comment insulting because that comment about the President of the Church being probably gay was making fun of him. That's why I thought that was mean. YOu know nothing about how he is called to position or what he stands for, or who he was.

I know a few extra femmy Mormon single guys who I sometimes wonder their orientation, people are people and i'm guessing there are some in every religion. These guys may just choose to not act on their feelings. not sure, never asked any of them. I honestly, don't care either way, it's thier business. Just to add, I've known losts of femmy guys of all different backgrounds. My hairstylist is one of them, super super girlie and claims to be straight. hmm. who knows. Whatever floats your boat.

[green 6]

While many Mormon practices may seem strange to non-Mormons, I suspect that many of the practices of old churches seem as strange. Many protestants don't understand how a Catholic can go to confession and get a clean slate. Many other don't quite understand why protestant religions stress the angry God of the Old Testament. As a Unitarian, I have a problem with the idea that the crackers and grape juice/wine of the communion is actually the body and blood of Christ. Isn't that cannibalism? All religions have little quirks and I don't think we should judge religions without plenty of information. Besides, I have had a lot of Mormon friends, and I just loved them. They never made a big thing of me being a Unitarian though the Southern Baptists did. They won't associate with our pastor in the inter-church organization in town. The Mormons, Catholics, Methodists and Episcopalians had no problem with our minister. Personally, I have a lot more problems with Southern Baptists than with Mormons.

Yah, from what I have observed the Southern Baptists seem to be the least mellow, and they seem to have the most problems with grammar and spelling.

[leatha_g 4]

Amazing. lol It must be nice to be so superior.

So.. while we're crushing religions, did anyone see The Secrets of the Inquisition on PBS last night? Not that I particularly think condemnation is particularly becoming. My point, is the same of Bitter's. ALL groups of people have faults and skeletons in their closets.

I am a Southern Baptist, today - because it's my preference (today) of the building I attend to worship in. I have found an awesome church family, which I have found very important in my journey of learning about God and wanting to be a better Christian. My first exposure to religion was more in the Pentecostal vein, my father's family professed to be Church of Christ, but they seemed to be a bit iron-fisted to me, so I drew down the middle and went to the Methodist church and was first baptised there. Today, the Baptist church I attend and have since been baptised (immersed completely) in is a rather contemporary, Bible-believing, very accepting and welcoming fellowship. They still do preach the Bible, which I believe is the point, but they have not one single thing to do with my grammar or spelling. I learned that in public school and of course, my own intellectual bent must have had something to do with it. I'll agree socio-economic factors can show a trend in lesser learning, but I seriously don't think the church I joined at 46 yrs old had anything to do with it. I'm pretty sure that's probably the case for most other Southern Baptists, or Northern Baptists, or Lutherans, or Seventh Day Adventists... or, or, or.. lol

Sheesh...

[green 6]

These are only general observations.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Amazing. lol It must be nice to be so superior.

Yeah, pretty much.

Okay, superior is not the right word. But it is nice to be able to quit fooling myself and move on with life after finally accepting what is myth, what is fiction, what it's mighty damn fine to be able to say, "I don't know" instead of coming up with a standard God answer.

I understand that some people have a need to believe in something so they don't feel like they are in this big bad world all alone and that there is purpose in life. I get that. What I don't get is Christianity. It is quite simple to prove it is not factual. It isn't even original material. When xtianity was created by man it was borrowed, stolen, and copied from myths prior. Why not go to the original myth? At least it isn't copied from someone else, or if it is we don't KNOW it is used and rehashed material. Why not adopt the religions it was copied from? Wouldn't that at least be more honest?

Another issue I don't get is how ignorant so many are of their own religion. Ask them the history of their religion and 99% leave it at what their minister tells them. Or better yet, what they assume. They have no desire to understand their own roots and learn every detail they can of their God and beliefs. They know 1% of their total religion. Their God gave them ONE book. Just one. It isn't a bible of the week club where they would spend 80% of their daily lives reading and studying. Noooo, their God gave them one book. Yet I know more atheists that have read the darn thing from cover to cover than I do xtians.

Xtians claim to love this God sooo much yet they couldn't even be bothered to read their own good book just once in their lives.

Honestly, I think xtians in general have as much respect for xtianity as atheists do.

[Sunta 5]

I found that comment insulting because that comment about the President of the Church being probably gay was making fun of him.

As I have explained, it would never even cross my mind that calling someone Gay is in any way derogatory, mean, or insulting. And actually I think it's very offensive that that's how you take it.

[Sunta 5]

What I don't get is Christianity. It is quite simple to prove it is not factual. It isn't even original material. When xtianity was created by man it was borrowed, stolen, and copied from myths prior. Why not go to the original myth? At least it isn't copied from someone else, or if it is we don't KNOW it is used and rehashed material. Why not adopt the religions it was copied from? Wouldn't that at least be more honest?

Amen to that!

[TheLid 0]

On behaf of Mormons and Christians everywhere I would like to say that I am sorry that so many people have been offended by people who are claiming to "live the higher law".

I don't think that you have to be a certain religion to be a good person. I have known plenty of athiests who would give you the shirt off thier back, while another Christian is too busy to bother. I also don't think that just because you profess to be associated with a church automaticaly means that you are living and acting according to the teachings of that church. None of us are perfect, but hopefully we are trying to be a little better every day. We are a work in progress.

[Sunta 5]

I have known plenty of athiests who would give you the shirt off thier back, while another Christian is too busy to bother.

Yes, I have found this to be true the vast majority of the time.

[areellady 1]

Kat, I know exactly what you went through in SLC...its a very nasty town with a very heavy dark presence hanging over it...and to carlene those clean cut mormon boys did that work for you out of GOOD WORKS!! They believe they have to do good works to be a "god" one day themselves. Pipe in if I am mistaken, but you mormons are working toward being "gods" am I not right? I know I am right..I live in Idaho..I used to live in Rexburg...the highest per capita of mormons around...and also the high per capita teen pregnancy at the time of 1988..it was on Paul Harvey...who can argue with him? These clean cut boys are oooh so not what they appear on the outside...I know plenty of MORMON missionary boys...oh believe me....my sons friend...has sex, drinks, smokes and yet he is waiting on his "mission papers". I know because he tells me..I am not going to judge him harshly and kick him out of my house for him doing these things...I also know that he is going on a mission because his dad is going to buy him a brand new truck if her goes....Thats sick...what a way to control your kids huh? there are the few and far between that are going on these missions because they want to, but most are forced or bribed into going by their parents...they have been told there WHOLE lives they are going on a mission...its just a sad story...my poor nephew being one of them...the girls are taught to grow up and get married and have children should be their mission in life.....good god...then not only that but when they die and go to "heaven" to be with their "god" husbands...they are going to be eternally pregnant...oh what a joy!!!!! Hopefully they have a lap band system in their heaven....poor women..

I found that insulting when the thought was brought up that polygamy had nothing to do with sexual things. What planet are we living on? Are you totally serious and can actually think that these guys werent just a bunch of old horn dogs trying to "screw" everything in site...thats exactly what was happening...Old Breedum..I mean Bringham Young..how many wives did he have???? What were there ages??? I know its embarassing to say...a young woman should not have to married to some old horny man just so he can get his rocks off....it doesnt even make sense that these men were having more than one wife because they were getting killed...Why would they want to populate more and more children just to die and noone to take care of them....I dont know..it never has made sense to me...I know when I was a young child I went to the Morman church and I can remember the Sunday school teacher telling me that Heavenly Father and his wife.....yes...thats what I said...GOD AND HIS WIFE.....I can remember telling me mom that and the look on her face.....HIS WIFE???? LOL...

[TheLid 0]

Before I respond: I want to say again that I am sorry that you have had bad experiences with Mormon people. I am trying really hard to word this in a way that it will not be misinterpreted. I do not condone any bad thing that any Mormon has ever done for any reason. Now for my response:

So, are you saying that we should not do nice things? I guess I don’t understand how good works are a bad thing. I know that many Christian religions do not believe that you need to have good works to “be saved”. I personally think that being a Christian means that you accept Christ as your Savior and you want to try to follow his example. He spent his life in service to others, so shouldn’t we? Obviously we would be nothing without His sacrifice. Serving others is a way to show our appreciation. I am really not trying to start a “Faith vs. Works” debate. And to all of you out there who don’t believe in Christ anyway, you can just ignore this paragraph. I am not going to try to convince you that he is real.

As for your sons friend who is going to go on a mission… I really hope that he doesn’t. There are enough people out there with a bad view of the church. The last thing we need is some kid out there representing the church that doesn’t believe in it and doesn’t really want to be there. Before going on a mission a person has to have several interviews with their local church leaders to be sure that they are going for the right reasons. If this kid lied during those interviews the leader would not know unless someone else told him. I hate to call someone a liar, but if he had told his leader that he was having sex, drinking or smoking he would not have been allowed to go on a mission.

Unfortunately people do lots of things for the wrong reasons. Going on a mission to get a car is not a good reason to go. It doesn’t make the mission a bad thing; it just means that the motivation is wrong. (Doing good works so that people can see you vs. doing it because it is a good thing to do). Some people’s parents buy them a new car for turning 16 or graduating from high school (mine didn’t). Should we criticize them too?

As for being eternally pregnant… I think that sounds like a horrible idea. Luckily Mormons do NOT believe that. I am not married and don’t have any children. Someday I hope that will change. Right now I am in nursing school. I love it and can not wait to graduate next year so that I can be an RN. I was always taught to get a good education. Very few things in this life are for sure. You never know if your husband will lose his job or even (heaven forbid) die unexpectedly.

In an earlier thread someone said something about Mormons home schooling. As long as I am on the subject I want to say that I don’t KNOW any Mormons who do this. Yes, I have heard of it happening, but it is not very common. If you choose to home school your children it is a personal choice. My aunt is Catholic and she is very in to the whole home school thing. I don’t think that children come out any smarter in the end. I figure we are all paying taxes to support the public schools, so why not take advantage of it. To each his own, I guess.

[areellady 1]

TheLid, come back here and talk to me after you get married in the temple. This is stuff they dont tell you about UNTIL you are getting married in the temple...Just dont be shocked when you are getting married and they tell you you are working toward attaining your own planet, your husband to be the god over it and you will be eternally pregnant to populate this planet...I KNOW plenty of mormons who are not so afraid to share this point with you if you ask...but most wont say a word and play dumb to it...it is suppose to be a secret til you go to the temple....

[TheLid 0]

Well I really hate to burst your bubble, but I have been to the temple and I have seen many marriages performed there. Many of the things that you have been told have been taken out of context and I can understand how you could misinterpret their meaning. They are not things that are kept a secret until you get married. I also know plenty of Mormons who are not “afraid” to talk about these principles. They are common knowledge to the membership of our church. You should ask one of your LDS friends about being “eternally pregnant”. Use those words. They will probably laugh. Since there is nothing that I could say to try to convince you of the truth of our beliefs I am not going to go into detail. All I will say is that these are things that are very special to us.

Every church has their own beliefs about what happens after death. No one can agree about what will actually happen. I don’t agree with some of the beliefs of Catholics, Jews, Muslims etc., but that doesn’t give me the right to disrespect their beliefs. You can show respect without being in agreement. I also firmly believe that if you have questions about what any religion believes you should ask an active member of that religion. You can not only talk to people who have left that religion. Get both sides, but keep an open mind (not so open that your brain falls out). My mom was raised Catholic, but she left that church. My aunt and grandparents are still very active Catholics. When I have a question about Catholic beliefs I ask them both. However, I tend to take what the Catholics say more seriously than what my mom might say. Usually, she tells me to ask them anyway. They are the ones who are living that religion every day.

I am not trying to convert you. A chat room full of strangers is not the kind of place where I am going to open up and share the deepest feelings of my heart.

Religion and politics. Two things you don’t discuss at the dinner table. Why do you think that is? It always ends with mudslinging (or food-slinging). I don’t think anyone ever changes their position because of someone else’s comments. I think that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject. Let’s just try to keep the peace.

[sweethot143 2]

TheLid, come back here and talk to me after you get married in the temple. This is stuff they dont tell you about UNTIL you are getting married in the temple...Just dont be shocked when you are getting married and they tell you you are working toward attaining your own planet, your husband to be the god over it and you will be eternally pregnant to populate this planet...I KNOW plenty of mormons who are not so afraid to share this point with you if you ask...but most wont say a word and play dumb to it...it is suppose to be a secret til you go to the temple....

I have been married in the temple for almost 7 years, and have never heard of being"eternally pregnant!" to populate a planet! sorry to say, someone lied to you.

AS for the comments on missionaries, my husband served an honorable mission, and loved every minute of it. It helped shape him into the man he is today . A man who loves his family, lives to do service for others, leads in the church without one complaint, and tries to live an honest and righteous life. He went on his mission for the right reasons to spread the Gospel as we are commanded to do in the Bible. He selflessly gave 2 years of his early adulthood life to serve his God. Most other guys would be living the frat boy life while he was out helping others as did those two mormon missionaries that helped Carlene. The thing is that after their missions, thos boys will most likely continue to do service for others. Its who they are, what they love and I am personally happy to be surrounded by loving men like that. It's refreshing, and my non mormom friends always ask my why my husband is so good natured and kind, what's different about him? I know the answer.

I have been to SLC once, to temple square, went through that incredibly beautiful Temple and there was no dark presence over it when I went. It was such a clean town, the people were unbelievably nice, and as I walked through temple square and through the conference hall it and the vistors center, it brought me to tears. All of this was made possible because of a boy in a grove. I personally loved every second i was there.

[areellady 1]

Well, I had a respone written and you know how it goes when it DISAPPEARS!!! I know that mormon church teaches eternally replenishing the planet that you and your husband will be the gods over...it might not say it in those exact words....BUT YOU know it does...secret name to be called out of the grave by your husband..... Its all so common knowledge I dont know why the mormons try to cover it up...there are so many talking mormons...ex mormons or church going, tithing mormons...they talk....My whole husbands family is mormon...I should know...I get treated like one when they tell me stuff that I really DONT want to know....On the other hand I attribute my husbands kind heartedness and the way he worships the ground that I walk on to the way his father respected his mother.....being in a "religion" that is so focused on family could be any religion..not just mormons...so I attribute the way my husband treats me to the way he treats his mom..with the utmost respect, which has NOTHING to do with being mormon...at all....everyone wishes that they had MY husband, he is the nicest, family oriented man and not because he is mormon...he is a nice human being...nothing to do with what religion he is...he is what he is...a good man....I would hate to have someone define me a good person because of what Religion I was...I am glad that you have a man that respects you and loves you, every woman deserves that...we are special...

In fact when I was leaving the hospital the day after surgery...the nurse pulled me aside and and said, "I am so impressed with your husband, he is sooo supportive and kind." Boy did I have a grin from ear to ear.....and I am going to agree to disagree I have been doing it my whole life....I grew up in a town of 3,000 with one catholic church, one baptist church and MANY mormon churches...

I remember the first time someone asked me to go to something at the "Stake" house...I thought they meant "Steak" house....I freaked out...I thought they were talking about the place where the butchered animals...LOL...