PBS special "The Mormons" made me furious!

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Sunta...

HA! I wasn't going to touch that one, I knew you'd feel a spark over that!

[sweethot143 2]

Lower divorce rate vs. which religions/people? Your divorce rate is higher than that of Catholics, Lutherans, agnostics, atheists, all seniors, and all those in the NE US.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

As for the rest, please provide your objective and neutral sources for your information.

I answered your questions and the stupid curser that sticks deleted it all and jumped to another page.

so in short

one out of 2 marriages ends in divorce and in the Mormon church that is not the case, it's less than that.

the aid to hurrican katrina thing, I saw on a local news channel when i was living in FLorida.

The other things came from a book called Who are the Mormons that i used to have. i read it before and some of it stuck with me.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I answered your questions and the stupid curser that sticks deleted it all and jumped to another page.

so in short

one out of 2 marriages ends in divorce and in the Mormon church that is not the case, it's less than that.

the aid to hurrican katrina thing, I saw on a local news channel when i was living in FLorida.

The other things came from a book called Who are the Mormons that i used to have. i read it before and some of it stuck with me.

So IOW, you are unable to defend any of your claims.

Kewl Beans.

[Wheetsin 714]

I think you knew what i meant.

Then we think even more differently that I would expect. It makes no sense to say "we do more," as some sort of defense, without qualifying the than in the statement.

You could be saying "We gave more than people who make a buck a week" or you could be saying "We gave more than all the millionaires put together." I wouldn't know.

[sweethot143 2]

I didn't respond to this thread to bash back and forth, I responded because i hated to see some one throw false information about the people whom I love dearly out there. I didn't want others to take that misinformation as fact.

My intentions are to maybe educate her a bit on the difference between warren jeff's "mormons" and The LDS community. I think others reading this post benefited from knowing the differences.

I don't intend to change anyone's oppinions on religion, afterall it's your right to choose what you want to believe. I think we are all God's children, Gay, straight, athiest, catholic, Mormon, whatever, and he loves us all the same and we all deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Then we think even more differently that I would expect. It makes no sense to say "we do more," as some sort of defense, without qualifying the than in the statement.

You could be saying "We gave more than people who make a buck a week" or you could be saying "We gave more than all the millionaires put together." I wouldn't know.

I have a hunch she doesn't understand how an atheist thinks. You know how engineers think different from most? Don't you think the same applies to atheists in many ways?

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

... I responded because i hated to see some one throw false information...

But isn't that what you did? I know you didn't intend to do so, but you did.

When you are using examples to show how much your folks do vs. other folks, isn't it reasonable to expect that you would defend your claims with something other than generalities, "I heard once..." or "Once I read something in a non neutral book...."

That just isn't fair. It would be like my saying that once I heard that atheists have a great deal more morality than Christians. So, it must be true, right?

I honestly don't care what religion someone is. I just don't want them to involve me in it. Or society as a whole.

As for the Colorado City, AZ folks not being part of your religion, I'd have to differ with you. EVERY religion has those they would prefer not to claim as their own but you know what? Just like everyone else you have to suck it up and accept the fact that others are a part of your religion, they merely interpret the rules different from you. There isn't a Christian out there that doesn't sin. So if they sin, does that mean they are no longer a part of that religion? If that was the case, we wouldn't HAVE religion.

[sweethot143 2]

God is a man.

How would God being a man have anything to do with whether or not women can be priests?

By nature of them not being allowed to be priests, they are held in an inferior position to men.

The first doctor was a man, but this doesn't mean women can't be doctors.

The first astronaut was a man, but this doesn't mean women can't be astronauts.

And so on and so forth.

God being a man does not, and should not equal "so women can't be priests". It does not make any logical sense as the two are not connected in a linear way in the argument.

Women can't be priests because they are held as inferior to men.

And therefore, the Mormon church views women as inferior to men.

ok, so only woman can bear children, men cannot. so men are inferior in that case. I guess if you look at it like that that, then sure.

in The Church, men cannot hold office in the Relief Society, the largest all woman's service organization in the world, so therefore men are inferior.

Just becuase i woman can't hold the priesthood doesn't mean they are inferior the positions which they hold are equally as important to the scheme of things. They have different responsibilities but not of less importance. does that make more sense to you?

[Carlene 12]

I said nothing about your spelling. My point was that you (generally speaking) can't take a lack of misspelled words, on a messageboard with a spell check function, as an indication that homeschooling is better than not homeschooling (or etc.). And to a lesser degree, that lack of misspelled words does not indicate a superior education or upbringing when other assets such as grammar are not also "above average" - even if that were some kind of valid measure. (Esp. on boards with a spellcheck.)

I think BB got what I was saying. Hope.

If anything, BB was complimenting your spelling.

Spellcheck is great but it can't fix everything. I belong to a couple of dog forums and every time I see "my dog is pure bread", I wish I could make a little doggy sculpture out of whole wheat, take a picture of it, and post it for those morons....with a note - "Now THIS is a pure bread dog".

[Sunta 5]

As for the Colorado City, AZ folks not being part of your religion, I'd have to differ with you. EVERY religion has those they would prefer not to claim as their own but you know what? Just like everyone else you have to suck it up and accept the fact that others are a part of your religion, they merely interpret the rules different from you.

Absolutely.

I think the Warren Jeffs folks would take offense to being told they're not "real" Mormons.

In fact, they are Mormons and they founded their church on Mormon principles, the exact same principles as "other" Mormons.

And my bet is that the "real" Mormons also participate in polygamy, as well as underage polygamy, even though it's not "officially" recognized.

And the fact is, women are inferior in that religion and I think young girls should be protected from that demoralizing treatment.

[Wheetsin 714]

I wish I could make a little doggy sculpture out of whole wheat, take a picture of it, and post it for those morons....with a note - "Now THIS is a pure bread dog".

I'd almost pay to see that.

Indeed, spell check will never help someone understand that will we might all want to be losers, few of us want to be looser.

[Sunta 5]

They have different responsibilities but not of less importance.

Does the relief society make the laws and rules that govern the church? No, it does not.

Do positions women hold have any influence over how the church is run day to day, and what laws people are held to? No, they do not.

Women do not hold positions of power in the church, nor do they hold positions of influence. Nor do they make important decisions.

All callings and positions within the church are subject to a priesthood authority.

But let me quote from a reputable source, the Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith, 16: Priesthood, the Divine Government, From the Life of Joseph F. Smith, 137, © 2005

"The Lord has assigned to men the chief responsibility for governing over the affairs of the Church and the family."

"We can honor the counsel of priesthood leaders—our husbands, bishops or branch presidents, stake or district leaders, and General Authorities. We should refrain from criticizing priesthood leaders and teach our children to do the same. Sustaining and supporting the priesthood is more than just raising our hands or saying that we support the priesthood. It is learning, praying, obeying, and serving in a good cause."

All of the people in positions of power are men, not women.

Women's role is secondary and supportive, not primary and leading.

And the thing about women being able to have children...

That is a natural ability that we can't change, not an award from one human being to another, bestowed to be able to govern, such as in the case of priesthood.

I guess the inequalities are so very deeply institutionalized that women themselves are unable to pull back enough to see them...

[sweethot143 2]

As for the Colorado City, AZ folks not being part of your religion, I'd have to differ with you. EVERY religion has those they would prefer not to claim as their own but you know what? Just like everyone else you have to suck it up and accept the fact that others are a part of your religion, they merely interpret the rules different from you.

Absolutely.

I think the Warren Jeff's folks would take offense to being told they're not "real" Mormons.

In fact, they are Mormons and they founded their church on Mormon principles, the exact same principles as "other" Mormons.

And my bet is that the "real" Mormons also participate in polygamy, as well as underage polygamy, even though it's not "officially" recognized.

And the fact is, women are inferior in that religion and I think young girls should be protected from that demoralizing treatment.

respectfully, that doesn't make much sense. I can't just found my own church based on some catholic principles and then call myself catholic and expect the catholic church to say, Oh well, she did found her church on one or more of our principles, just interpreted it differently, so she is part of the community. uh, no.

And where do you get your information that the mainstream Mormons still practice polygamy? I'm not sure where there info is from and why you think it is accurate. the fact is that since you don't believe in this religion, your knowledge of it is very limited and often incorrect. As is my knowledge on most other religions other than my own, so I'm not blaming you for that by any means. You just wouldn't catch me bashing other religions and spurting out incorrect information about them.

As I said before, what positive came from you being so hateful toward a group of people who have done nothing to hurt you, who in most cases, try to be the best people they can be.

so you have been looking at the LDS.org website and that is exactly what we believe on there. If you don't agree then so be it, that's your choice. I understand that if you don't believe in a God, then you wouldn't understand or agree with most everything on there. so I get it.

[Hazelbunny 0]

God is a man

It is interesting to me the differences of dogma between religions. I am Methodist (raised Catholic) and I don't think of God as a gender - God is just God.

I have several Mormon friends and I have always been impressed with how involved with their families the average Mormon is - what I find discouraging is the superiority inherent in the religion. That only those strong and disciplined enough can be true Mormons.

There seems to be a lot of reliance on self as opposed to reliance on God which seems counterintuitive to a Christian based faith.

[sweethot143 2]

It is interesting to me the differences of dogma between religions. I am Methodist (raised Catholic) and I don't think of God as a gender - God is just God.

I have several Mormon friends and I have always been impressed with how involved with their families the average Mormon is - what I find discouraging is the superiority inherent in the religion. That only those strong and disciplined enough can be true Mormons.

There seems to be a lot of reliance on self as opposed to reliance on God which seems counterintuitive to a Christian based faith.

I have to disagree with the part about only those strong and disciplined enough can be true Mormons.

we aren't taught that at all. we are taught that we are all sinners and need to repent on a daily basis and that we can do that through the atonement of Christ. A lot of us are weak, i think most of us are in fact. That's human nature and our Creator understands that and has provided a way for us to repent and be forgiven of our constant sin.

I think we do rely on God, that is why we are encouraged to pray daily in personal prayer, family prayer and couples prayer. We are also encouraged to read scripture in the same manner. We are to make all decisions with the help and guidance of our Heavenly Father, I think that is relying on him quite a bit.