confused about restriction

[Syrah 0]

That is more clear, thank you. However, I think you should be more careful because you frequently tell newbies here that that there is no restriction without a fill. This directly conflicts with what you are saying now.

And this is what I am talking about on this thread – no restriction without a fill. Not overfilling, as you are (“Have you EVER been overfilled? EVER?? To the point that you couldn't even drink Water? ”) We are apparently having two different discussions. I am talking about bands being installed too tightly, initially, and people (SOME people) who continue to lose weight without a fill, or with very little fill.

I'll venture a guess his background beats your own doc's background. But yours is better because he's from the US, right? Isn't that kinda... non-PC?

I think my doc and your doc are probably both equally qualified, but I’m not getting into a juvenile pissing match with you. My comments have nothing to do with racism; thread lightly there, my friend.

I don’t have any stats that Mexican doctors install bands too tightly. (I never suggested they do. I simply asked whether it’s possible that they install the band too tightly after you said 70 percent of Ortiz’s patients don’t need a fill for the first 6 mos.) Do you have stats to the contrary? Do you have information to prove US doctors are creating myths? Sheesh. Relax a bit – I was just asking a question.

You seem quite defensive, and even somewhat of a bully on this board at times. Maybe it just my perception, but you seem to try to intimidate people and cut down opinions you disagree with by demanding stats and belitting people in subtle ways (that you may not even be aware of). I hope you can relax and enjoy the board a bit more.

[Syrah 0]

I just had the opportunity to see 3 band placements yesterday. I saw the band, there is no way it is the size of a 50 cent piece. No way a 50 cent piece would fit through that hole, even unfilled. Not even close. I honestly don't think a quarter would fit through there but I'm willing to try it next time I go to Mexico. If I am incorrect I will be the first one to tell you. If I am correct I'll take photos and post them. Some surgeons describe it as a nickel, some describe the INSIDE dimensions of a placed band as a dime. No way it's a 50 cent piece.

Are you a surgeon or a nurse? I thought you said you aren't currently working.

How do you explain the photos on that website then? Ok - so maybe not a 50 cent piece (and you missed my words “a bit smaller than”), but a dime? If you are talking specifically about the Inamed band having the space of a dime, then you should indicate this. Because not every Bandster has the Inamed band. I have the Vanguard band and my surgeon's group is starting to use this one most of the time. This band is a bit larger. So there is no point in disagreeing when we aren't even talking about the same band, right? When discussing fills and restriction, we should all keep in mind that not all bands have the same restriction / not all have the same sized passage.

Again, I am not anti-Mexico, so please calm down about that before you start something nasty. I simply asked a question about tight anding that obviously lit a fire under your can.

About overfilling – it is unfortunate that you were overfilled, but by far, most people here are complaining about not having enough restriction, even after a fill. In my limited experience, overfilling can be avoided by drinking barium before you ever leave the procedure and watching the Fluid pass on the monitor, so the situation can be corrected. I'm sorry if you had incompetent medical care - that sucks.

[Betsyjane 2]

Back to the original frustrations about lack of restriction, maybe this will help.

After I was banded, I wondered what restriction would be like. I didn't feel it after I was banded. I didn't feel it after my first fill...or my second. I was so down on myself about my bad behaviors with food. Then I got my third fill, and my food seeking behaviors just stopped. My cravings just stopped. I was free. I found my sweet spot. It happens. But you have to keep pushing for fills until you find it.

But I also had another experience in my journey. There came a time when I thought I needed another fill. I went and the fluoroscope said my pouch was dilated. So I was feeling like I could eat anything again! Pouch dlation happens, often without it being your fault. Well, I thought I had ruined the surgery! The fill center said to go back on liquids for 3 days to give the pouch time to shrink. And to do a few minor changes in behavior. And if that didn't work, they'd do a bit of an unfill to let it go back to the right size. But it worked. 3 days later I was feeling good restriction and my food seeking behaviors went away.

So here's my third story. Now as an old bandster of 6 months, I have some food seeking behaviors and have had some of my old bad habits reappear. But now, I have tools. I have restriction. I have 6 months of experience with the band. I know that when it happens, I need to go back to basics. I write down everything I eat, how I eat, my exercise...for a few days, and I'm back on track. Or I up the exercise, change the food, slow way down while eating....anyway, change is possible now and never before in my life. I'm becoming a mature bandster.

All of this is to say that it is a lifelong journey and very individualized. If it isn't working, don't be passive. Work it and fight being dicouraged. That discouraged feeling is just a leftover from the old days of feeling hopeless. It doesn't apply now. go after answers. And know that the answers next month may be different from the answers this month. Go for it.

[carol134 0]

Confused is not the word for me, it I believe totally baffled and not getting much clearer for me yet and I was operated on June 7th, 2006. I have felt restriction but no weight coming off for literally months! And I know I'm not eating no where what I used too. Or eating the things I used too as well. So go figure. Sometimes I just get sick of it all. I know there are issues to consider like age, health, excercising, things like that but good grief it gets so old after a while, kinda like dieting did. Of course I'm still doing the watching what you eat diet. I'm just hopeful that something will give soon.....

[FurEllie 0]

As always, EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT!! Period.

I didn't feel any restriction w/o a fill until about a week before I got my 2nd fill - 2.5 months later. My first fill was 1.5ccs which is relatively small, but it was an overfill for me. I had the band by Dr. Ortiz, the fill, unfill and another fill by his office. Unless I'm swamped for time, I don't see a reason to go anywhere else. When I read of people where the doctor has tried several times to hit the port, then charges $400?? I don't think so. I've never heard of Dr. Romero (Dr. Ortiz's fill doctor) having to make more than one try at the port and it's $100 - with floru. They are VERY conservative with their fills, BTW.

Back to YMMV - to think that some people won't have any restriction with the band alone is just nuts. Just like some people (like me) have very good restriction with less than 1cc and others have no restriction with 3cc+, EVERY ONE IS DIFFERENT!

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

And this is what I am talking about on this thread – no restriction without a fill. Not overfilling, as you are (“Have you EVER been overfilled? EVER?? To the point that you couldn't even drink Water?”) We are apparently having two different discussions. I am talking about bands being installed too tightly, initially, and people (SOME people) who continue to lose weight without a fill, or with very little fill.

No, we aren't having two different conversations. A tight band, tight fill, what difference will the result be? If people were coming home from Mexico with a band that is too tight or overfilled they wouldn't even be able to drink Water. What your doc claims is what a handful of docs claim. I'm still waiting for one of them to back this up with something. Anything.

I think my doc and your doc are probably both equally qualified, but I’m not getting into a juvenile pissing match with you. My comments have nothing to do with racism; thread lightly there, my friend.

I was asking for clarification, another of many issues/questions you declined to address. I was referring to overall history and track record. As for the juvenile pissing match you refer to, I didn't start this. I merely answered your attempts at tearing apart my posts. I never have tolerated the "anti-Mexican" attitudes when it comes to docs and bandings, I likely never will.

I don’t have any stats that Mexican doctors install bands too tightly. (I never suggested they do. I simply asked whether it’s possible that they install the band too tightly after you said 70 percent of Ortiz’s patients don’t need a fill for the first 6 mos.) Do you have stats to the contrary? Do you have information to prove US doctors are creating myths? Sheesh. Relax a bit – I was just asking a question.

Ohhhh, come now. You have been doing quite a bit more than asking questions. You and I both know that. I don't think I claimed it was Ortiz' patients only that didn't need a fill for six months. If I did it was an error. Ortiz claims that 70% of patients don't need a fill for six months. Not sure I buy into that number fully as in reading various boards that doesn't seem the norm but I have nothing to refute his stats.

I hope you can relax and enjoy the board a bit more.

I enjoy the board quite well, but thanks for your concern.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Syrah...

I am not going to continue this game. You tear apart my posts, I ask you to back up your own claims, you refuse to do so but insist I back up mine. You won't even answer questions when I ask you to clarify your posts. It's not just this thread you have started this behavior, it's another as well. This is turning into a pissing match and I'm just not going to play. You'll have to find yourself a new target, I'm through. I have answered your questions, all of them. I have responded to each point you make. I have nothing else to offer you. Again, find a new target as I'm ending this here and now.

[Syrah 0]

WABB, I will agree to a truce, but I will comment whenever I think posts are misleading or over-generalized. And btw I am talking about initial banding, not fills. (You and I both know that. :mad: )

.But first - I ask you to have a bit more compassion for others and to consider other opinions that are different than yours. You are quick to demand stats and back-up info, when you never seem to present that kind of information yourself. And even if these discussions turned to statistics, we all know that those can be bent and skewed for our personal use.

Of course all doctors are going to differ. To come out swinging and insisting that someone else’s doctor is wrong, yours is right, and backing it up with nothing but opinion – that serves no legitimate purpose. You should let others express their views and different theories they have heard (as well as their doctor’s views), without getting so defensive.

I just thought you might like to hear how you are coming off sometimes. I’m glad you are enjoying the board.

Have a good day.

[demmemoon 0]

I was told that initial restriction from the band is a bit smaller than a 50-cent piece. I've never heard the "dime" comparison.The pictures I've seen of the partially-inflated band look larger than a dime. The Lapband® and its Placement It's clear that my surgeon is a bit more conservative than some Mexican surgeons, however. Maybe that's because he's only an hour away from me. :mad:

If you were to take the lapband out of the package pre-surgery and measure the diameter of the band, a quarter would easily fit through it.

Once inserted and adding in a little tissue adherence, I would say that the quarter would need force to pass through. Still bigger than a dime, but a dime would go through easily.

I work in the OR and we do many, many lapband surgeries and have seen the size of the band in question numerous times. It is an Imed just to clarify and my hospital has the Award of Excellence.

As far as the posted statistics on those who go to Mexico vs the US, I think the poll would be a bit skewed. My thinking is this: because there is a natural fear in going outside the US for any medical procedure (IMO) I would think these forums are populated more by those looking for answers/positive conformation of those who have gone abroad than by those that can get information and support locally. I am here because I am anal in my research. I check everything constantly and on many levels. I trust my doc but wanted to see what others have gone through. My doc is of normal weight and a male. How can he truly understand me and what I have been through?

And the comment that US docs are upset over Mexican (or other) docs taking away their business, I highly disagree.

Mexican docs are getting the business that US docs weren't going to get anyway. Other than WABB, I doubt there are more than a couple people that chose Mexico when they could have had the surgery here. Your choice worked for you, but most going outside the US do so because of insurance problems we have here and self pay. I would be eager to see how many would still have gone to Mexico if they had insurance carte blanc to go anywhere they wanted without paying a dime. I may be wrong, but I bet more would choose to have their surgery "in their backyard", so to speak.

I think perhaps WABB has had to justify her choice one to many times to others and has gotten a bit defensive. If you would like me to ask my lapband surgeons their take on the Mexican doctors, I would be glad to. I bet they would give credit to those deserving and be concerned about those not meeting the approved Imed standards.

I also think it was a cheap shot suggesting racism played into this.

Again, most of this post is based on my observance in the OR and my opinion based on my experience. YMMV.

[demmemoon 0]

Wanted to edit for spelling Inamed wrong.

When trying to edit, my text screen was filled with smiley faces mixed with letters. WTF?

[lizrbit 0]

:::insert big tooth filled grin here::::

i do think its very wise to take posts on this board with a grain of salt, and not believe everyone who claims to be in the medical profession as really that. There is one particular on this board who does bully people about AND as a medical "professional" certainly doesnt behave in coherance with ethical medical practices (like chain smoking and going to fill parties, where you literally fill each other.) I think its dangerous practice altogether and they DO make contradictory statements on different boards.

If you are new and read a post that sounds iffy, look at their stats. If someone posts an average of 30 posts per day on here, what else do they have time for all day?

no doctor or nurse i know has that kind of time.

Just be careful whos advice you take.

Best wishes

[Syrah 0]

Thanks for the info, Demmemoon. However, you are talking about the Inamed bend, right? Because I think the Inamed band and the Vanguard band seem to be different sizes.

[steinquilts 0]

I'm a little confused about the fill thing as well. I just had my 3rd fill and there is now a question of my port possibly leaking. I was refilled to 1.8cc's on the 15th and am really feeling the restriction. In fact I tried a brat at the company picnic yesterday and really became distressed. I'm hoping now that the new restriction will speed up the weight loss

[Betsyjane 2]

Carol-Back on your concern... What do you eat during the day?

[FurEllie 0]

Mexican docs are getting the business that US docs weren't going to get anyway. Other than WABB, I doubt there are more than a couple people that chose Mexico when they could have had the surgery here. Your choice worked for you, but most going outside the US do so because of insurance problems we have here and self pay. I would be eager to see how many would still have gone to Mexico if they had insurance carte blanc to go anywhere they wanted without paying a dime. I may be wrong, but I bet more would choose to have their surgery "in their backyard", so to speak.

I had "carte blanc" and could have gone to any doctor in the US. I went to Dr. Ortiz because like you, I'm anal and found out he's done over 4K bands, written a book and taught many of the US doctors

Sure, it would have been great if it was FREE, but when I want the best, I'll pay for the best. It was worth the money to get it done there and not in the US as well as the 3 trips I've taken there since. I did the math at the beginning and based on 4 fills, I'll end up paying more for Dr. Ortiz than I would have for a doctor in the US.

I AM looking for a doctor whom I can go to in case of emergency in Georgia because I live in a small rural town that I'm 99.99999% sure has no idea how to handle a lapband complication, but if I have the time, like I did when I needed an unfill, I was more than willing to go back to Dr. Ortiz and again, pay more money for what I could have gotten cheaper here in the states.

YMMV