Dr. Jalil Illan with Baja Bariatrics and Omar Acosta - A Warning

[Ms.AntiBand 2,984]

Now I've heard of beatin' a dead horse, but this thread takes in the whole dammmmn herd and off to the flippin' glue factor

[Ms.AntiBand 2,984]

Nothing else needs to be said other than be careful wherever you go regardless if its surgery or otherwise. Fair warning ladies... be smart

[Madam Reverie 2,958]

Sorry Ms. Antiband. I promised a potential Rev-splat. It's about to land!

Apart from this becoming waaaaaaaay out of hand.

Just a couple of splat-like objective observations from the verbose one;

1. Should this topic be broached on this website? Well, yes. Potentially ‘sanitised’, it should. It's about protecting others against a risk factor present when anyone goes overseas, in a country that is not their own (with associated afforded protections) and there is a credible threat to those in a vulnerable position being taking advantage of by those in a position of authority.
2. Should it have been tabled as it has been? Possibly not. There are always ways in which to couch things and as Susan is not the directly aggrieved (although always with the utmost best intentions), the message can (and has) been perceived as disingenuous. In my humble opinion (and as Susan later revised into a concise paragraph-which I’m about to make bigger), a wider and possibly more inclusive and less ‘explosive’ overall message could have been:

'If you are traveling to Mexico, please be advised there are (potentially [my inclusion]) people who are willing to take advantage of you for their own personal needs – (as there are predatory, licentious and opportunistic people in any walk of life [my inclusion]). They understand you are in a very vulnerable state. Don't become a victim, protect yourself. And don't allow a handful of people to make you feel like you have done something wrong, when you haven't (if you have been unwarrantedly preyed upon and speak out [my inclusion]). (If any of you experience behaviours of this nature, please report them immediately to the police or any person in a position of authority at the hospital concerned as quickly as practicably possible [my inclusion]).

(Most people know that ‘fraternising’ (sexually or otherwise) with hospital employees–no matter how remarkable the situation, or how bowled over by the temporary care and compassion shown, is not advised [my inclusion]). No matter what anyone else says, it is unprofessional and unethical (as it contravenes well established patient/care-provider boundaries and should not be entered into, it is suggested, during the period of the contract or after-care term. Not only does this lessen the potential for the primary care of the patient to be compromised, but also protects the employee themselves [my inclusion]).'

– Or something like that.

This could have then been followed up with earnest and compassionate discussion about the prevalence of such events, personal experience (if people felt comfortable enough to do so). There could even have been a caveat included to state that if anyone has been affected by the issues presented, please contact one of the hosts or even Alex himself, whereby those in charge will endeavour to point you in the right direction of counselling, legal advice, etc. etc. Not, as it has become; character assassination and non-sensical, barely relevant claim and counter-claim. (Which, incidentally, I found utterly yawn-worthy) and has served no purpose but to obfuscate the core message intended – which when you get down to it, is about concern over patients’ well-being.

1. Should those involved (those in the medical profession or those representing it), have been named and ‘shamed’? Now, this is where it gets tricky. The 'no smoke without fire' saying is indeed a very powerful one - as has already been mentioned. Should the core message about women being ‘aware of the risks’ and given appropriate and official ‘avenues for recourse and reparation’ as far as international laws and norms for ‘offences committed overseas’ are concerned - yes, it should have been. None of us are judge and jury and as in a court of law; individuals are ‘innocent until proven guilty’. However, despite how the message has been delivered, the owner of this site has chosen to uphold the posting of this message, by one of his staff. It is for he, and he alone, to determine the veracity of the ‘information’ supplied and whether the message is appropriate or not. Conversely, it is for the representatives of the clinic concerned to determine whether they or their employees have been defamed. Not, as it appears to have become, for those who have taken personal umbrage (for whether they find the post, or the supporting contributors statements ‘offensive’, or they, themselves, had received outstanding care from the persons mentioned and have felt the need to become ‘defensive’) to ‘shoot the messenger’, who in fairness, has acted in good faith and is supported by the owner of the website.
2. For the reason above and in relation to those of you seeking 'concrete evidence' as to what took place? There have already been individuals who have bravely stated they have been subjected to inappropriate advances, licentious discussion and the most concerning, personally, having a representative of the hospital situated in their hotel room when they returned, accessed through an official key-card; without alleged invitation and prior discussion or approval. That is harassment. Whether or not the ‘fors’ and ‘againsts’ choose to ‘believe’ or ‘disbelieve’, it is shocking enough that these situations are surfacing and not just by one isolated person – but a number of potentially unconnected people. For those of you asking for ‘evidence’ to support this? May I remind everyone, that the UK and US went into Iraq, losing thousands of lives, on the basis of a ‘credible’ ‘Weapons of Mass Destruction’ threat. Although unrelated, did anyone ask for the ‘hard evidence’ before this happened? No. Nor, as individuals would we have been provided it. If there is evidence of wrongdoing at the clinic concerned or by its personnel, it is for Law Enforcement agencies, medical licensing authorities or companies advocating the services of the clinic to establish whether what took place was inappropriate. Consequently, to ask for this is ludicrous. If those in a position of authority at this website have been entrusted with such information, then they would severely abuse the trust and privacy of those who came to them if they divulged it freely. Consequently, I refer back to point 1 about the post in its form requiring to potentially be sanitised before posting.
3. Points of view. This is an open forum where all points of view and experience (given in a measured, balanced, personally-founded, non-attacking way) should be appreciated and valued. However, the one thing I can’t seem to get my head around (outside of the playground level bickering), is that as human beings, if one of you said ‘Oh, I have an ingrowing toenail and that cream I was given by this chemist has caused my toe to wither up and fall off’, would we all be screaming for evidence of it? No, of course we wouldn’t. But conversely and to this, I acknowledge, would we be up in arms and asking for the Chemists head on a platter? No, we wouldn’t. Because, fundamentally, the wider audience would not have the emotional investment the aggrieved has, because their interaction is vicarious and has not been as a result of them entrusting their life in the hands of the ‘accused’ and thus their original ‘judgement’ about who they selected to operate on them being perceived to have been brought into question – which it hasn’t. However, it is not the surgeon (latterly acknowledged), who is the primary object of concern – although, he could be, if the subject was aware of the ‘alleged offences’ and turned a ‘blind eye’ to it.

So is anyone right here? No.

Most importantly for me; someone (some people), have taken the step to name an individual associated with an act(s)/behaviours they found deeply offensive. Whatever the circumstances, should we not show them some compassion? Take away from the fact that the OP is a member of this website, former employee, formerly involved with bariatric referrals (which give a lot of credibility to what has been said, but also brings into question the intent); two people are here stating that they have been ‘hurt’. Surely that’s enough to show some form of understanding and compassion – even if you think some of the claims to be spurious?

Please, let’s stop taking this as an attack of our personal decision making skills and a slight on those we have chosen to befriend and let’s keep it to what it should have been; a general warning to women to be on their guard, a safe place to express concerns by those who feel they have been ‘wronged’ and for people who have been utterly satisfied, to state just that. The rest of it is just conjecture, hair-splitting, ego-centric posturing and more importantly, toe-witheringly unreasonable.

Now… where’s the contact number for that pesky Chemist…..

[NothingUpMySleeve 244]

Many, many, many Americans wanted proof of WMDs prior to invasion. I mean, I know that's not really the main point of your post, but hey.

[Chubtastic 21]

I just read this entire thread, and I think my head may explode.

I don't know Omar, Susan, Dr. Illan, or anyone else here. But what I do know is that from what I can tell, Omar's behavior was EXTREMELY unprofessional, and I would have expected to see each and every woman and decent man in here saying something along the lines of "if that happened, it is horrible, and it needs to be addressed". I didn't expect blind acceptance, but a measure of "hey if this happened that sucks" would have been ok.

The lack of compassion for others that is displayed here is appalling. Omar is an a-hole if he did these things, and although a-hole does not equal rapist, it certainly does, in this situation, equal someone who ought to be prevented from working with female patients in this capacity.

By the way, I have seen right here in this thread so many misconceptions about rape, assault, and unethical behavior that it makes my head spin. I am so very sad about it.

Now, my personal opinions:

@@*susan* I can understand why you wanted to speak out on behalf of these women, and I get it. BUT I do think, personally, that it would have been easier to process, more effective to serve your purpose, and better received, if you had been able to convince the women to post their stories in the beginning rather than you making the post. I know you were doing what you felt was right. I dig it. But the purpose was to warn women about a predatory man, and I just think that message was lost because you were the message bearer. In the case that they did not want to post themselves, and I can understand why they wouldn't want to, then it may have been better to make the post more general. Just my opinion. Either way I respect your intentions.

Also, to @Chubtastic: Ma'am. Call me a feminist, and maybe I am, but even if this situation was COMPLETELY above board (which it is not BY FAR), I am amazed at your almost instinctual defending of the male person (the accused) in this scenario. Males are not automatically guilty, but I must say that you excuse Omar's behavior multiple times while condemning this woman because she was married. Who hurt you? He doesn't have a life outside of work? Really??? So, if a professional is busy, it's perfectly fine for him to make sexual advances toward his clients? That is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. Holy cow, baby, come on back to earth. There's room for you here, I promise...

...not that I'm sure I want to be on earth anymore.

I hope that Dr. Illan is able to take out the trash and restore some order to his coordinating team. Until now, I've only ever heard good things about him, and I hope he would not knowingly allow this sort of behavior to continue.

I have daddy issues

I was more or less playing devil's advocate not excusing his behavior.l was just trying to see it from another side. i've heard he's a busy guy (i don't agree) but could see how he would date these women he meets thur work. I dont know if hes some kind of predator who gets off on playing games and abusing his power or if hes a just an A hole jerk who wants to live the single life and be a player and all these women are being vindictive hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. I think everyone in this situation is to blame I don't excuse either ones behavior also I wasn't condemning her but she made vows to someone and she broke them bc(assumingly) some smooth talker told her she was pretty. Marriage isnt to be taken lightly and if this situation was reversed and she was a man I would have said the exact same thing gender makes no difference.

[Madam Reverie 2,958]

Many, many, many Americans wanted proof of WMDs prior to invasion. I mean, I know that's not really the main point of your post, but hey.

 

lol I know, but I geddit.

[Alex Brecher 10,512]

The attacks from @coexist123 (Jessica C. head administrator of team Illan) and @@babygirl1987 (Whitney F.) are really going to the extreme and must stop immediately. We noticed @babygirl123 was posting under her name and keeps coming back under different names. Now she is posting as @babygirl123 and also sent one of our members a threat through IM that she will go after her in personal life. This is the message she sent the unnamed member.........." Things in this online world can very much effect your personal life the same way you are trying to effect omars. You have no idea what I'm capable of....."

I think this has gotten out of hand.....

[Chubtastic 21]

I think this has gotten out of hand.....

...um O_o maybe its time to lock the thread? But I would like to hear from the other girl who is about to post her story hopefully she give some clarity.

[KickRocks 163]

Excuse me I haven't posted today!! I have spoke to you in private and I've not spoke victim #2. I'm confused but like I told you people are looking at what legal actions can be done. This post is creating y'all tons of money cause we know more page views more $$$ so of course it's going to keep going but like I told you I refuse to speak about or bring out info I have till legally requested.

Edited July 15, 2014 by GAmom

[Madam Reverie 2,958]

 

It seems that the members of Team Illan who've spoken up here have a different moral code than those of us who support the six women who fell prey to The Fabulous Omar. Not saying it's better or worse--but definitely different. So unless some more of those six women want to tell their stories or the two who've already posted here wish to expand on their stories, I guess the two groups are just hanging around staring at each other with our mouths open, unable to understand how the other side can possibly see things the way they see things. In the meantime, a record about The Fabulous Omar and His Treacheries (or His Romances, depending on which camp you're in) has been created here for all to read and interpret. Alex has made clear the thread won't be deleted. So unless someone wants to post pix of their tattoos or before-and-after plastic surgeries, what else is there to talk about? Well, I was about to give you all the 'benefit' of my utter verbosity.... Maybe I won't... Or maybe I should?!!

For the love of sweet Jesus :-)....please Madame Reverie....speak!

 

 

I did, it's up there ^^^^^^

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

The attacks from @ (Jennifer Williams founder of Team Illam) , @coexist123 (Jessica Carter head administrator of team Illan) and @@babygirl1987 (Whitney Farmer) are really going to the extreme and must stop immediately. We noticed @babygirl123 was posting under her name and keeps coming back under different names. Now she is posting as @babygirl123 and also sent one of our members a threat through IM that she will go after her in personal life. This is the message she sent the unnamed member.........." Things in this online world can very much effect your personal life the same way you are trying to effect omars. You have no idea what I'm capable of....."

I think this has gotten out of hand.....

That Whitney girl, she cray cray.

And she's also just committed a crime.

And Whitney -- it's "affect," not "effect."

Edited July 15, 2014 by VSGAnn2014

[coexist23 82]

Yes, by all means, ban us, block us, delete almost all of our posts. You have got quite the little system here Alex. You and your little workers can say ANYTHING you want and it's fine. What a power trip!

[SoccerMomma73 1,867]

Lordy people....again, common cause??? We're here for each other...support? Growth??? Companionship on this jacked up journey called life???

Go to him, don't go to him, but at least you're aware that maybe there is a problem. Be safe.

[Alex Brecher 10,512]

Excuse me I haven't posted today!! I have spoke to you in private and I've not spoke victim #2. I'm confused but like I told you people are looking at what legal actions can be done. This post is creating y'all tons of money cause we know more page views more $$$ so of course it's going to keep going but like I told you I refuse to speak about or bring out info I have till legally requested.

The attacks from

 

I think this has gotten out of hand.....

 

 

We're making approximately $1.25 from the total page views this topic will end up reaching (I kid you not.) It's much more personal for me. It's not about the $. Truth needs to be told and I won't allow bullies to shut up the victims. There are 6 cases we know of. There are most likely 50+ over the last few years that we're not aware of.

[*susan* 1,709]

I have just been contacted by yet another victim. Clearly, this man is taking advantage of his position. He is so unprofessional and of low moral character and no ethics. I am just speechless.