Scary stuff

[BladeFox 235]

Here's the one I found...

http://www.cswd.org/docs/opposewls.html

Thank you and read it. This is not as unusual as what I have already read. Basically, this article mentions the same thing that everyone tells you prior to getting the surgery - it is not a magic fix. It is a tool that one can choose to use or not. I think doctors have pulled away from telling you that it is the patients fault if they regain, at least I hope they have. We are humans living a human experience with all types of temptations and for (us) it was and is food. Even today, I want to go to Dairy Queen and get a small cone, why?, because out of a summer habit and the fact that I see them in my travels all around me! Do I die to self? How long do I not satisfy this urge? I don't thing its possible to NEVER have a cone, or bread, or Pasta, or donut for that matter. This tool is hopefully teaching us discipline and reminders of how far to eat/much to eat. Will it be the same way two years from now? I hope so, but I have also read that returning to plan jump starts the plan like it was just yesterday. Does the stomach stretch? I have read that it does, but not to the volume that it once was. Have hope and be encouraged that you will be one of the long time success stories!

[Kindle 8,667]

Ok, read the article and it's pretty biased. I would definitely put this in the category of propaganda, or better yet, ignorance. What exactly is the CSWD hoping to accomplish by being anti -WLS? Basically, in taking this stand they are using all of the potential complications (which account for a very small percentage of WLS results) and making it sound like these are what everyone will experience. The funny thing is, they don't even mention GERD, which is probably the most common side effect for VSG anyways. Goes to show they don't have a clue what they are talking about. With very few exceptions, you won't vomit if you eat more than a cup of food, you don't have to camp out in your bathroom forever in case you have diarrhea, "most people" do not regain their weight after 2 years, and most surgeons don't lie to their patients about potential side effects just to get them on the surgery table. The list of inaccuracies goes on....

And as for the commentary they quoted, it is 15 years old and the guy is an idiot. "If a meal of more than 3 ounces is consumed, the patient will vomit." WTF?! He obviously has an agenda and is in no way using facts to support his position

[HalloweenBaby24 447]

@@Kindle

I agree, I only used this as an example of the recent anti-wls propaganda I've been sent from someone trying to talk me out of wls. It's obviously quite dated and therefore obsolete/inaccurate information.

[Kindle 8,667]

@@KindleI agree, I only used this as an example of the recent anti-wls propaganda I've been sent from someone trying to talk me out of wls. It's obviously quite dated and therefore obsolete/inaccurate information.

Thanks for posting. It's quite frustrating to try and argue against inaccurate statements that are muddled with fuzzy statistics. They sound so "real" to people that haven't researched the true facts. And Especially to people that want them to be true.

[Jersrose43 837]

I I really don't have time to debate you on this....if you don't understand propaganda we can't even begin to have balanced dialogue on the subject. Back to our regularly scheduled program....

I am not ignorant nor trying to debate you. If like more information not just your say so

I certainly haven't felt nor seen nor been involved in any anti wls conspiracy. I have people who don't understand my decision around me. But it's them accepting my decision and me choosing to let their ignorance go.

Thank you to the other poster for posting a link.

[Jersrose43 837]

Here's the one I found... http://www.cswd.org/docs/opposewls.html

None of the points are untrue in this article I think we can all agree many of these are possible side effects.

However I found this particular paragraph quite interesting ;

Paul Ernsberger, PhD, Case Western Reserve School of Medicine, wrote this commentary in response to a reporter's request for information on the controversial subject of weight-loss surgery. November 1999.

1999!!!!!

[Miss Mac 6,262]

This is definitely a polarizing subject. I did a self-serving cost / benefit analysis before I committed to surgery (like a pro/con list). One list concerned financial cost, risk, expected lifespan,possible medical complications, etc. The other list concerned financial relief due to better health, expected lifespan, improved mobility, reduced inflammation and pain, etc.

The Bariatric Center at Loyola University did not shield me from the harsh possibility of complications and regain. They were very open and answered all 17 questions that I pounded them with on my first visit. I feel like I was very well informed. The risks to not having surgery were greater than the risks of following through.

One of the concepts discussed in my college statistics class was that you could prove anything with statistics. The result was just a matter of where your personal bias was coming from. As a matter of fact, one of the books on our recommended eading list was "How to Lie with Statistics" by Darrell Huff.

So....I think one thing we can all agree on is that each individual needs to research the subject of weight loss surgery very well and make the best informed decision that they can. One of my resources for being educated on this subject was this very forum. The forum presented me with real people having real outcomes, and put a face to the experiencing I was considering.

[BabySheldon 158]

I am not ignorant nor trying to debate you. If like more information not just your say so I certainly haven't felt nor seen nor been involved in any anti wls conspiracy. I have people who don't understand my decision around me. But it's them accepting my decision and me choosing to let their ignorance go. Thank you to the other poster for posting a link.

Some some old articles for examples....my point was to establish that there is an anti- wls and wls surgery movement....there has been for years....I am of the firm belief the WLS is a medical issue...not a social issue for political posturing. WLS patients in my opinion are patients and thus should be provided with accurate, reliable medical information.....but I happen to know first hand what its like to have a medical doctor tell me to my face the that WLS is for people who are lazy, do not want to put in the work and that fat people do not want to be accountable for their actions so they turned to surgery. This doctor also told me i could die, regain, have organ damage or end up having a break down because i might not look the way i expected.... To me, she just was against the surgery....all of the things she stated were true, but her posturing was specific and directed.

http://www.size-acceptance.org/stop_wls/

UPDATE APRIL 2002: About 45,000 people have had some form of weight loss surgery since 2001, 50% more than in 2000. An unknown number of people died from WLS complications in 2001 -- their numbers unknown because deaths caused by WLS are often underreported or misdiagnosed. Still more have their lives dramatically impacted by the side-effects and complications of this procedure. Virtually all will develop eating-disordered behaviors, as the National Institutes of Health (NIH) refers to gastric bypass procedures as "induced bulimia."

Other risks associated with WLS, according to the NIH*:

Ten to 20 percent of patients who have weight-loss operations require followup operations to correct complications. Abdominal hernias are the most common complications requiring followup surgery. Less common complications include breakdown of the staple line and stretched stomach outlets.

More than one-third of obese patients who have gastric surgery develop gallstones. Gallstones are clumps of cholesterol and other matter that form in the gallbladder. During rapid or substantial weight loss a person's risk of developing gallstones is increased.

Nearly 30 percent of patients who have weight-loss surgery develop nutritional deficiencies such as anemia, osteoporosis, and metabolic bone disease.

Women of childbearing age should avoid pregnancy until their weight becomes stable because rapid weight loss and nutritional deficiencies can harm a developing fetus.

* Taken from the NIH website

Some doctors, physicians and even celebrities refer to WLS as a "last chance" for improved health and weight loss. Yet where are the long-term studies to show that quality of life was improved, that length of life was increased or that weight did not come back? According to what ISAA has available, this information has not been released to the public.

It is ISAA's belief that the public has not been properly informed about the dangers that WLS poses and why it should be avoided at all costs. The Board of Directors of ISAA has resolved to take a public stand against WLS. ISAA will provide information on alternatives to WLS and ISAA would like to offer a memorial to those who lost their lives (and/or their quality of life) and their loved ones.

WLS is a booming business but who really benefits? You'll have to judge that for yourself after presented with the facts. This section of the ISAA website will continue to grow and evolve over time.

Thank you for yours.

Sincerely,

Allen Steadham, Director

International Size Acceptance Association (ISAA)

One Response to “Question of the Week: Weight Loss Propaganda”

Sal Says:

November 21st, 2006 at 12:50 pm

Allen, Laura,

I have been fighting the fat battle all my life. Have you noticed as each generation gets away from accepting responsibility for themselves, the fatter that generation is…. (it’s Mc Donalds fault, etc). I have come to realise that the basic formuala of calories consumed VS calories spent is correct to a point. For many of us this needs to be taken a few steps further. Not only is it matter of how much we eat, but what we eat and when. I would suggest a vast majority of overweight people are carb sensitive. The types of carbs you eat are critical. When you eat those carbs is even more critical. Eat more carbs in the morning when you have all day to burn them off, cool, eat them at night, you get fatter.

As another article here pointed out, even with the weightloss surgery, you have to alter you eating habits. With every weight loss program you reduce calories you consume to less than you expend to loose weight. We no longer expend the energy that our fore fathers did in the course of their day. So it would stand to reason we cannot consume the amount or type of calories they did.

We do not tax our muscle to the point where they will absorb huge amounts of calories from the need of being worked hard. A weight lifter can consume any carbs he or she wants within two hours of a hard workout and the body cannot, nor will it store any of that as fat. I will be taken directly to the cells of the muscle as fuel to repair and rebuild. Hence the issure of when to eat what type of calories.

Restraint and proper food selection with a sound workout system is the best diet out there. Please do not try to short cut the process. Forget the promises of rapid weight loss. Most of thiese diet sacrifice as much lean muscle as they do fat. You didn’t gain it over night, don’t expect to loose it any faster than you lost it.

One last thing, find out your body mass index, as you loose weight, if you are doing it correctly with exercise, you will gain muscle which will help you loose weight faster as muscle burns more calories than fat and weighs more. So just because you did loose much weight this week, you may have just replaced fat with muscle. Be patient and kind to your body.

Released August 6, 1999

Updated November 5, 2002

The International Size Acceptance Association (ISAA) generally does not support the use of bariatric or weight-loss surgery (WLS). ISAA recognizes that not all people are accepting of themselves at whatever size they happen to be and that some people view WLS as an alternative to the perceived health risk associated with increased weight, especially after diets and other methods of weight loss fail.

ISAA cannot support the option of WLS, even as a very last resort. ISAA believes that long-term studies need to be performed to determine whether or not WLS increases the chances of mortality (death) for potential recipients who are already in ill health.

While ISAA acknowledges that WLS can result in some weight loss (10% on average), ISAA cannot support the use of WLS for the following reasons:

WLS recipients can and often do regain the weight they lost, plus more, usually within five to ten years. For example, It is possible to stretch stomach tissue left after stapling, which defeats the purpose of the procedure.

Potential WLS recipients are not fully informed about the risks and side-effects of WLS, which can include but are not limited to painful gastrointestinal distress, leaking of gastric juices into the chest cavity, infection, deterioration of teeth (erosion of enamel caused by repeated vomiting), flatulence, mineral and nutrient deprivation (especially potassium), uncomfortable and highly odorous bowel movements and/or loose stools.

Rapid weight loss, whether from dieting or from WLS, affects muscle more than fat, including heart muscle. The long term results of the procedure could lead to death from heart-related complications.

WLS requires that the recipients eat smaller meals but more meals throughout the day. If a person consumes more than their stomach has been reduced to, they vomit the rest, which can lead to bulimic behavior. The alternative is eating less, which can lead to anorexic behavior. In addition, WLS recipients will be more inclined to obsess about food, since they have to eat much more often with seriously restricted amounts.

Finally, if WLS procedures were not sanctioned by insurance companies, less people would have the procedures done, since the procedures are expensive. Insurance companies sanction the procedures because there is some recorded success rates (though with side-effects such as listed in 2.), as opposed to straight dieting, which has a 98% failure rate. ISAA does not support weight loss dieting nor does it view WLS as a "necessary alternative" to weight-loss dieting.

The International Size Acceptance Association believes in educating people that one can be healthy at any size, even a large size. ISAA's Mission is to promote size acceptance and help to end size discrimination through means of advocacy and visible, lawful actions. Based on the information at its disposal, ISAA is not aware of any instance where the benefits of WLS outweigh the short and long-term risks and consequences of such procedures.

ISAA welcomes all people to participate in ISAA's activities, whether or not they have had WLS or are planning to have WLS. For clarification, ISAA's policy is against the surgery, not the people who have the surgery.

Released August 6, 1999

Updated November 5, 2002

The International Size Acceptance Association (ISAA) generally does not support the use of bariatric or weight-loss surgery (WLS). ISAA recognizes that not all people are accepting of themselves at whatever size they happen to be and that some people view WLS as an alternative to the perceived health risk associated with increased weight, especially after diets and other methods of weight loss fail.

ISAA cannot support the option of WLS, even as a very last resort. ISAA believes that long-term studies need to be performed to determine whether or not WLS increases the chances of mortality (death) for potential recipients who are already in ill health.

While ISAA acknowledges that WLS can result in some weight loss (10% on average), ISAA cannot support the use of WLS for the following reasons:

WLS recipients can and often do regain the weight they lost, plus more, usually within five to ten years. For example, It is possible to stretch stomach tissue left after stapling, which defeats the purpose of the procedure.

Potential WLS recipients are not fully informed about the risks and side-effects of WLS, which can include but are not limited to painful gastrointestinal distress, leaking of gastric juices into the chest cavity, infection, deterioration of teeth (erosion of enamel caused by repeated vomiting), flatulence, mineral and nutrient deprivation (especially potassium), uncomfortable and highly odorous bowel movements and/or loose stools.

Rapid weight loss, whether from dieting or from WLS, affects muscle more than fat, including heart muscle. The long term results of the procedure could lead to death from heart-related complications.

WLS requires that the recipients eat smaller meals but more meals throughout the day. If a person consumes more than their stomach has been reduced to, they vomit the rest, which can lead to bulimic behavior. The alternative is eating less, which can lead to anorexic behavior. In addition, WLS recipients will be more inclined to obsess about food, since they have to eat much more often with seriously restricted amounts.

Finally, if WLS procedures were not sanctioned by insurance companies, less people would have the procedures done, since the procedures are expensive. Insurance companies sanction the procedures because there is some recorded success rates (though with side-effects such as listed in 2.), as opposed to straight dieting, which has a 98% failure rate. ISAA does not support weight loss dieting nor does it view WLS as a "necessary alternative" to weight-loss dieting.

The International Size Acceptance Association believes in educating people that one can be healthy at any size, even a large size. ISAA's Mission is to promote size acceptance and help to end size discrimination through means of advocacy and visible, lawful actions. Based on the information at its disposal, ISAA is not aware of any instance where the benefits of WLS outweigh the short and long-term risks and consequences of such procedures.

ISAA welcomes all people to participate in ISAA's activities, whether or not they have had WLS or are planning to have WLS. For clarification, ISAA's policy is against the surgery, not the people who have the surgery.

Released August 6, 1999

Updated November 5, 2002

The International Size Acceptance Association (ISAA) generally does not support the use of bariatric or weight-loss surgery (WLS). ISAA recognizes that not all people are accepting of themselves at whatever size they happen to be and that some people view WLS as an alternative to the perceived health risk associated with increased weight, especially after diets and other methods of weight loss fail.

ISAA cannot support the option of WLS, even as a very last resort. ISAA believes that long-term studies need to be performed to determine whether or not WLS increases the chances of mortality (death) for potential recipients who are already in ill health.

While ISAA acknowledges that WLS can result in some weight loss (10% on average), ISAA cannot support the use of WLS for the following reasons:

WLS recipients can and often do regain the weight they lost, plus more, usually within five to ten years. For example, It is possible to stretch stomach tissue left after stapling, which defeats the purpose of the procedure.

Potential WLS recipients are not fully informed about the risks and side-effects of WLS, which can include but are not limited to painful gastrointestinal distress, leaking of gastric juices into the chest cavity, infection, deterioration of teeth (erosion of enamel caused by repeated vomiting), flatulence, mineral and nutrient deprivation (especially potassium), uncomfortable and highly odorous bowel movements and/or loose stools.

Rapid weight loss, whether from dieting or from WLS, affects muscle more than fat, including heart muscle. The long term results of the procedure could lead to death from heart-related complications.

WLS requires that the recipients eat smaller meals but more meals throughout the day. If a person consumes more than their stomach has been reduced to, they vomit the rest, which can lead to bulimic behavior. The alternative is eating less, which can lead to anorexic behavior. In addition, WLS recipients will be more inclined to obsess about food, since they have to eat much more often with seriously restricted amounts.

Finally, if WLS procedures were not sanctioned by insurance companies, less people would have the procedures done, since the procedures are expensive. Insurance companies sanction the procedures because there is some recorded success rates (though with side-effects such as listed in 2.), as opposed to straight dieting, which has a 98% failure rate. ISAA does not support weight loss dieting nor does it view WLS as a "necessary alternative" to weight-loss dieting.

The International Size Acceptance Association believes in educating people that one can be healthy at any size, even a large size. ISAA's Mission is to promote size acceptance and help to end size discrimination through means of advocacy and visible, lawful actions. Based on the information at its disposal, ISAA is not aware of any instance where the benefits of WLS outweigh the short and long-term risks and consequences of such procedures.

ISAA welcomes all people to participate in ISAA's activities, whether or not they have had WLS or are planning to have WLS. For clarification, ISAA's policy is against the surgery, not the people who have the surgery.

http://www.naturallyintense.net/blog/weight-loss/keeping-us-fat-why-not-losing-weight-is-profitable/

http://suethsayings.blogspot.com/2008/04/60-minutes-lies-about-gastric-bypass.html

TIME

Study: Weight-Loss Surgery Doesn't Help Older, Sicker Patients Live Longer

By Meredith Melnick Monday, June 13, 2011 |

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/13/study-weight-loss-surgery-doesnt-help-older-sicker-patients-live-longer/#ixzz1PGAjeVYf

Weight-loss surgery may not reduce the risk of death in higher risk patients — older, heavier and sicker men — a new study finds.

The findings contradict earlier studies that have documented health and survival benefits for obese people who undergo gastric bypass surgery, also known as Roux-en-Y. But the current study's authors note that much of the previous research has been done in younger women. MedPage Today reported:

In large men, they noted, the Roux-en-Y procedure is "inherently more difficult" because of anatomical differences from women. The procedure also has a higher perioperative mortality rate in large men.

Men and minority patients with high rates of comorbidity have the highest risk of dying because of their obesity, they noted, and "these patients would potentially benefit the most from bariatric surgery–induced weight loss." On the other hand, no studies have focused on high-risk patients, they noted.

Thus, for the new study, researchers from the Durham VA Medical Center in North Carolina followed a group of 850 predominantly male veterans who had bariatric surgery at 12 Veterans Affairs medical centers between January 2000 and December 2006. The recipients of surgery had an average age of about 50 and an average body mass index (BMI) of 47.1, which qualified as morbidly obese.

The researchers then compared outcomes for the surgery patients with those of a control group of 41,244 veterans in the VA medical center network. These patients were older (with an average age of 55) and less obese (with an average BMI of 42). When looking at crude mortality rates over a six-year follow-up, the patients who got weight-loss surgery appeared to benefit: about 7% of surgery patients had died versus 15% of those who didn't get the operation.

But when researchers examined further, carving out a group of 1,694 patients — 847 surgery patients and 847 controls who had been carefully matched for age, weight and medical characteristics — this difference disappeared. People who got bariatric surgery were no more likely to survive than those who didn't.

"Our results highlight the importance of statistical adjustment and careful selection of surgical and nonsurgical cohorts, particularly during evaluation of bariatric surgery according to administrative data. Previous studies claiming a survival benefit for bariatric surgery had limited clinical information to conduct detailed risk adjustment or matching. The survival differences between the bariatric surgery and control groups were modest in most previous studies, so the beneficial effects of surgery may have been attenuated if adjustment for confounders had been possible," the authors wrote.

[moonlitestarbrite 902]

not to be crappy, but really, who cares? if you look online you will find people who are anti everything... psychiatric meds, special education, food stamps... EVERYTHING. there are people who believe medicine is evil, science is made up, everything is god's will so you shouldnt interfere at all with treating anything.... it doesnt mean anything. and doctors are no exceptions, they are human and have biases like everyone else!

do your research on reputable websites, dont ask for medical advice online and speak personally with experts.

if a person makes their medical decisions based on information from iffy online sources... well, what can you say?

[Ginger Snaps 1,323]

It's interesting that these articles reference the NIH website as being so anti-WLS but I did a quick search and found good balanced information there:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0004466/

"Weighing less should also make it much easier for you to move around and do your everyday activities.

To lose weight and avoid complications from the procedure, you will need to follow the exercise and eating guidelines that your doctor and dietitian have given you."

On the flip side, the CSWD has as one of their beliefs:

• Weight diversity is a positive goal. Our dream is a world in which a person's life, health, well-being, and happiness is unrelated to that person's weight.

Tell me how many people you know who are obese and eligible for surgery where their life, health, well-being and happiness is unrelated to their weight. My friend is having surgery this morning and her weight has put so much pressure on her back that she walks hunched over with a walker. Do you think her life, health, well-being and happiness are unrelated to the fact that she can't walk unassisted???

I'm so tired of these "fat acceptance" groups just ignoring the truth that USUALLY obesity severely impacts the quality of life and health of the obese.

[Jersrose43 837]

Am with moonlitestatbrite - who cares. Especially if it's a fat acceptance commentary. You should read that with a pound of salt.

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

The International Size Acceptance Association (ISAA) is not a mainstream information source that many people consult or are sympatico with.

Nevertheless, thank you for posting the "information" from the ISAA. What that "information" confirms is that they are peddling lies and propaganda that support their basic ideology -- people who suffer from obesity-caused maladies and diseases should accustom themselves to their suffering and, weirdly, revel in it.

Strange stuff indeed.