Jump to content
×
Are you looking for the BariatricPal Store? Go now!

Woo HOO!! Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban!!!!



Recommended Posts

the word atheist implies that you don't believe in anything,
Actually, you are wrong. Atheist literally means that someone lacks belief in a creator or a god or gods, not that they don't believe in anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my thoughts on is the fetus considered a living being from conception or is it just a blob of tissue.....do you consider a virus a living thing?
Actually, a virus is not a living organism. It doesn't metabolize, and that is one of the basic requirements of "life." That's why it's usually not a good idea to take antibiotics when you have a virus. They are designed to kill living organisms, which viruses are not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The heart begins to beat and circulate blood at 28 days of pregnancy. How's that for "is it a living being"? Thanks for bringing that up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As these debates go back and forth, the point is clearly established that well-meaning, intelligent and compassionate people have different points of view on whether a fetus is a human being, and all other related issues. It is clear that people disagree about this.

The thing that no one will discuss is: Why does one group get to create legislation and establish criminal penalties for everyone? The answer to this question cannot be "because a fetus is a human being, and therefore abortion is killing a baby." That can't be the answer because that is exactly what people disagree about. So, what is the answer? Why do pro-life people believe that they have a right to legislate and create criminal penalties for the well-meaning, thoughtful, intelligent and compassionate people who believe that a fetus is not a human being? Why do you have that right?

It is fair to ask the question, why not err on the side of life? But that is just a question. It does not give you the right to make the rules. Why do you believe you have the right to make the rules? Will anyone actually answer this question?

I will answer this question for ya. :(

Our rules are based on the beliefs of the men that founded our country, and those beliefs were based on their christian faith. So yes, many of the laws in this country are based on the christian foundation of living your own life, and caring for those who cannot care for themselves. Taking someone's life is against the law in this country, and that is based on a religious value. many who are not religious feel that lives should not be taken, but the law itself is based on a christian belief, because those who wrote the laws of this land were christian. Its why they came here, to practice freedom of religion.

If we are to follow this law, and we are erring on the side of life, then we should make abortion illegal. It is basing a law on another law that already exists. Murder is illegal. To err on the side of life means we must assume that anything with a heart beat, whether it needs to rely on someone else or not, is a life that should be protected. therefore to abort and snuff out that life would be murder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have the right to make the rules. If I did, abortion would be illegal. We depend on judges to decide these things, and I believe in light of the factual knowledge we have about life in utero, they will eventually come down on the side of life. The more we know about the unborn, the more their humanity becomes clear. It is only a matter of time. In the interim, the more we educate people about what really is going on in the womb, the more people will choose, of their own accord and based on the vast amount of information available, to choose life.

That sounds great to me. I fully support you in your effort to educate people and change their minds. If enough people do that and continue doing it, who knows, maybe your way will eventually win the day. I support you completely in your right to do that.

As long as you understand, as you said above, that you don't have the right to make the rules for everyone.

But see, the thing is, many pro-life sorts are not so reasonable. Many believe that they do have the right to make the rules for everyone. That they have the right to take this most difficult and personal decision and decide what everybody has to do, and who has to go to jail, and who has to carry a child to term, etc. That is the part that causes, shall we say, agitation in my psyche.

But again, I appreciate very much your much more reasonable approach on that point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But see, the thing is, many pro-life sorts are not so reasonable. Many believe that they do have the right to make the rules for everyone. That they have the right to take this most difficult and personal decision and decide what everybody has to do, and who has to go to jail, and who has to carry a child to term, etc. That is the part that causes, shall we say, agitation in my psyche.

I know a lot of "pro-life sorts" and none of them believes they have the right to make the rules for everyone. If they did, they would be making the rules for everyone, which they clearly are not. They have the right to, and they do, demonstrate, try to change minds, try to influence politicians, educate people, vote their beliefs, and assist women who are facing an unplanned pregnancy. But I can't imagine how you are envisioning the manifestation of their "right to decide what everybody has to do".

I've been pro-life since high school, when I first heard of abortion (perhaps I had heard of it before, but I don't remember it). It was a no-brainer; the unborn baby is simply a younger version of the infant everyone can't wait to hold and coo at. I became an activist that very day. If I could have changed the law then, I would have. If you show a child a developing baby in utero, or an aborted baby in a glass jar, the child knows instinctively what it is -- a smaller version of himself. It is only we adults who screw it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The heart begins to beat and circulate blood at 28 days of pregnancy. How's that for "is it a living being"? Thanks for bringing that up.
But it can't be sustained. Therefore, IMO, that heart is not part of a live being. Living, yes. Alive, no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Huh???????????
Come on, we've discussed this enough that you know very well what I'm talking about. I know I've talked to you about it before on one of the other threads. "Living" and "alive" are two very different concepts. Joe Blow attached to a respirator and on life support is "living," but he has no semblance of a "life" that makes him "alive." Does someone have thoughts? Does someone able to have a favorite color or movie? Is someone able to sustain their own life? Does someone make moral judgements? THOSE are parts of being "alive."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will answer this question for ya. :(

Our rules are based on the beliefs of the men that founded our country, and those beliefs were based on their christian faith. So yes, many of the laws in this country are based on the christian foundation of living your own life, and caring for those who cannot care for themselves. Taking someone's life is against the law in this country, and that is based on a religious value. many who are not religious feel that lives should not be taken, but the law itself is based on a christian belief, because those who wrote the laws of this land were christian. Its why they came here, to practice freedom of religion.

If we are to follow this law, and we are erring on the side of life, then we should make abortion illegal. It is basing a law on another law that already exists. Murder is illegal. To err on the side of life means we must assume that anything with a heart beat, whether it needs to rely on someone else or not, is a life that should be protected. therefore to abort and snuff out that life would be murder.

I can only conclude that you are not willing to answer the question.

I really do understand that you believe abortion is murder. But the whole dispute here is that other people do not believe abortion is murder. The question I asked is, why do you get to be the one to decide. You answer that question by saying "because abortion is murder." Are you truly not able to see the circular nature of your reasoning?

And I understand that you believe that we should "err on the side of life." But other people do not believe that an abortion takes a life. So these other people believe that they are "erring on the side of life" by putting their own life first. Pro choice people do not believe that they are going against the founders of the country, etc., by making the decision to have an abortion. I realize you disagree. But my question is: why do you get to be the one to decide? You answer that question by saying "because we need to err on the side of life." This is clearly not answering the question. It is simply a circular answer that assumes that you are correct without answering the question. So, I must repeat. Will someone please answer the question.

Why do you get to be the one to decide these questions for everyone else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does someone have thoughts? Does someone able to have a favorite color or movie? Is someone able to sustain their own life? Does someone make moral judgements? THOSE are parts of being "alive."

Then an infant is not alive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then an infant is not alive.
Yeah, they are. They can sustain their own lives. They don't need someone around to breath for them or to make their heart beat. They may not be able to feed themselves, but they can sustain life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can only conclude that you are not willing to answer the question.

I really do understand that you believe abortion is murder. But the whole dispute here is that other people do not believe abortion is murder. The question I asked is, why do you get to be the one to decide. You answer that question by saying "because abortion is murder." Are you truly not able to see the circular nature of your reasoning?

And I understand that you believe that we should "err on the side of life." But other people do not believe that an abortion takes a life. So these other people believe that they are "erring on the side of life" by putting their own life first. Pro choice people do not believe that they are going against the founders of the country, etc., by making the decision to have an abortion. I realize you disagree. But my question is: why do you get to be the one to decide? You answer that question by saying "because we need to err on the side of life." This is clearly not answering the question. It is simply a circular answer that assumes that you are correct without answering the question. So, I must repeat. Will someone please answer the question.

Why do you get to be the one to decide these questions for everyone else?

Ah, I was mistaken in the question you were asking. I apologize.

Ok, what makes me think i have a right to decide? Because I am a registered voter, and if enough of my ilk get together and vote a specific way, or vote people into office that we agree with the decisions they will make, then we have the ability to change the law. That is just pure democracy. I am not a dictator, and cannot make decisions or laws by myself, but i can talk to a lot of people, try to have them see my point of view, and then as a group we can vote into power the people we believe will make the right decisions in our stead. That is all anyone can do. Laws are laws, and sadly, to me, abortion is legal. But i hope to continue to work towards changing that some day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lauren, what about anyone who is put under for surgery. they need to rely on machines while in surgery to live. does this mean that during this time they are not alive? with your reasoning it does. any time anyone is not breathing or being able to sustain their own life and relying on anyone else is at that point just being viral.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, they are. They can sustain their own lives. They don't need someone around to breath for them or to make their heart beat. They may not be able to feed themselves, but they can sustain life.

So then none of the other criteria you mentioned is applicable? Having thoughts, having a favorite color or movie, the ability to make moral judgments? The only question is do they breathe and have a heart beat? THAT determines life?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Trending Products

  • Trending Topics

  • Recent Status Updates

    • vsg.with.sharon

      Hey everyone!
      I’m new here! Looking for some friends! 🥰
      · 0 replies
      1. This update has no replies.
    • LeighaTR

      Four days post surgery. I am sipping as fast as I can and getting NO WHERE near the goal of 60 - 80 grams of protein or the 64 oz of liquids. I just feel FULL. I don't know if it can still be the gas build up (I would think by now that would be gone) but it is a struggle to drink. And so far I have not had the nausea or spasms and don't want to wander into that territory by pushing too hard with liquids. I about passed out today as it was my most "strenuous" day. Went from second story to basement for shower and I was sure I was going to pass out. Looking back on my last few days I have had a total of less than 1000 calories. Am I just not getting enough nourishment in me? Once again a friday where I can't get ahold of the doc until Monday rolls back around so I am hoping maybe someone here has some experience on how to keep energy going. I do have fibromyalgia too and that may be where some added fatigue comes into play. How did you all fair with the goals the week after surgery?
      · 0 replies
      1. This update has no replies.
    • Doughgurl

      2 days until I fly out to San Diego to have my Bypass Surg. in Tiajuana Mexico. Not gonna lie, the nerves are starting to surface. I don't fear the surgery itself, or the fact that I'm traveling alone, but its the aftermath that I'm stressing about the most, after this 8 week wait. I'm excited to finally be here, but I am really dreading the post surgical chapter. I know its going to be tough, real tough and I think I'm just in my head to much now that the day i here. Wish me luck, Hopefully I'm one of the lucky ones, and everything goes smoothly. Cant wait to give an exciting update,. If there is anyone else have a June bypass or even a recent one, Id love to have someone to compare war stories with. Also, anyone near San Antonio Tx? See ya soon with the future me. 💜
      · 3 replies
      1. Phil Penn

        Good Luck this procedure is well worth it I am down to 249.6 lb please continue with the process..

      2. Selina333

        I'm in Houston so kind of near you and had the sleeve in Dec. Down 61 lbs. Feeling better. Was definitely worth it. I hope the everything is going well for you. Update us when you can!

      3. Doughgurl

        I am back home after my bypass surgery in Tiajuana. I'm post op day 4. Everything went great! I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who have not encountered much pain at all, no nausea thus far and I'm having no problem keeping down broths and water. Thank you for your well wishes. I cant wait to keep up this journey and have a chance at better health and simply better quality of life. I know there will be bumps in the road ahead, and everything won't be peaches and cream, but at least I have a great start so far. 😍

    • LeighaTR

      I am new here today... and only two weeks out from my sleeve surgery on the 23rd. I am amazed I have kept my calories down to 467 today so far... that leaves me almost 750 left for dinner and maybe a snack. This is going to be tough for two weeks... but I have to believe I can do it!
      · 0 replies
      1. This update has no replies.
    • Doughgurl

      Hey everyone. I'm new here so I thought I should introduce myself. I am 53y/o and am scheduled for Gastric Bypass on June 25th, 2025. I'm located in San Antonio, Texas. I will be having my surgery in Tiajuana Mexico. I've wanted this for years, but I always had insurance where bariatric procedures were excluded. Finally I am able to afford to pay out of pocket.  I can't wait to get started, and I hope I'm prepared for the initial period of "hell". I know what I have signed up for, but I'm sure the good to come will out way the temporary period of discomfort and feelings of regret. I'd love to find people to talk to who have been through the same procedure or experience before. So I look forward to meeting you all. Hope you have a great week!
      · 2 replies
      1. Selina333

        I'm so happy for you! You are about to change your life. I was so glad to get the sleeve done in Dec. I didn't have feelings of regret overall. And I'm down almost 60 lbs. I do feel a little sad at restaurants. I can barely eat half a kid's meal. I get adults meals often because kid ones don't have the same offerings at times. Then I feel obligated to eat on that until it's gone and that can be days. So the restaurant thing isn't great for me. All the rest is fine by me! I love feeling full with very little. I do wish I could drink when eating. And will sip at the end. Just a strong habit to stop. But I'm working on it! You will do fine! Just keep focused on your desire to be different. Not better or worse. But different. I am happy both ways but my low back doesn't like me that heavy. So I listened (also my feet!). LOL! Update us on your journey! I'm not far from you. I'm in Houston. Good luck and I hope it all goes smoothly! Would love to see pics of the town you go to for this. I've never been there. Neat you will be traveling for this! Enjoy the journey. Take it one day at a time. Sometimes a few hours at a time. Follow all recommendations as best you can. 💗

      2. Doughgurl

        Thank you so much for your well wishes. I am hoping that everything goes easy for me as well. We don't eat out much as it is, so it wont be too bad in that department. Thankfully. Also, I hear you regarding your back and feet!! I'd like to add knees to the list. Killing me as we speak! I'm only 5' so the weight has to go. Too short to carry all this weight. Menopause really did a doosey on me. (😶lol) My daughter also lives in Houston. with her Husband and my 5 grand-littles. I grew up in Beaumont, so I know Houston well, I will be sure to keep in touch and update you on my journey. I may need some advice in the future, or just motivation. Thank You so much for reaching out, I was hoping to connect with someone in the community. I really appreciate it. 💜

  • Recent Topics

  • Hot Products

  • Sign Up For
    Our Newsletter

    Follow us for the latest news
    and special product offers!
  • Together, we have lost...
      lbs

    PatchAid Vitamin Patches

    ×