VA Tech: What is the world coming to? Are people simply bad at heart?

[Sunta 5]

In light of the rash of school shootings, my dad was telling me last night he thinks teachers should be armed and trained. Kind of like air marshalls on US flights.

What do you all think of that?

[Alexandra 55]

In light of the rash of school shootings, my dad was telling me last night he thinks teachers should be armed and trained. Kind of like air marshalls on US flights.

What do you all think of that?

No. Schools aren't battle zones and we shouldn't proceed as if they were. Kids prone to violent behavior seem to be identifiable, and better action should be taken to prevent these tragedies.

We can't protect everyone against everything, sadly enough. But unbalanced people shouldn't be allowed to purchase firearms.

[foodstampchamp 3]

Hi Sunta, This is horrific. I feel so sad for the families of the dead. How and why did the person who comitted this heinous act have a weapon?

So sad. Susannah

This is heartbreaking and very tragic. My thoughts are definately with the families of these victims.

From what I understand he had gotten the gun legally. He showed 3 forms of identification and it all sounds legal. I'm all for gun control but I think it is not hard for people with bad intentions to get a gun no matter what the laws are. I'm not a person with bad intentions, but I happen to be a person who is not allowed to carry, own, possess a firearm due to some stupid decisions I made when I was a teenager. But if I wanted to get a gun and do horrible things with it, I could no problem. I don't think more gun control laws will stop bad people from doing bad things with guns.

[anonemouse 1]

No. Schools aren't battle zones and we shouldn't proceed as if they were. Kids prone to violent behavior should be identifiable (and it seems they are) and better action should be taken to prevent these tragedies.

We can't protect everyone against everything, sadly enough. But unbalanced people shouldn't be allowed to purchase firearms.

I definitely agree. Kids that are at risk of becoming violent are identifiable, if people care enough to open their eyes and look. It may require mandatory yearly psychological evaluations by school counsellors, and identification of targets of harassing and bullying behavior, but it is possible.

[foodstampchamp 3]

I agree with you. Take guns away from criminals.

I agree with taking guns away from criminals, but if someone is a criminal that means they obviously do things while side-stepping the laws. I'm sure side-stepping the law is exactly how a "criminal" would get a gun. I'm not saying there shouldn't be gun control laws, but I wonder (because I have no idea what the answer is) are there more crimes committed with legal gun ownership or illegal gun ownership? There really is no full proof 100% way to do anything in the world, including taking guns from psychos.

[foodstampchamp 3]

In light of the rash of school shootings, my dad was telling me last night he thinks teachers should be armed and trained. Kind of like air marshalls on US flights.

What do you all think of that?

Wow, this is a tough one. I can think of many reasons this would be a good idea and the same amount of reasons this would be a bad idea. Good question.

[sophrosyne 0]

All you can do, really, is institute a main entrance with metal detectors and security guards.

No student or teacher needs to enter school property with a gun or ammunition vest. And, while we're used to the freedom to come and go as we please, perhaps colleges should start instituting the same security measures high schools have.

As to people being bad... I think *most* people are inherently good. Just look at those teachers who sacrificed their own lives to protect their students.

However, there is a large part of the population with mental disorders. More than you might think. And of those, there's a much smaller percentage who are (or have the potential to be) violent criminals.

I've been researching psycopaths/sociopaths recently and I've been amazed at what I've found.

Odds are, we ALL know people who fit into that category, who leave us baffled by their actions. And most of them aren't criminals, but all of them should be avoided like the plague.

Between education of what warning signs to look out for, and common-sense precautions, (and maybe some - dare I say it - gun control), I think we'd have fewer incidents like these. Or at least, I'd hope we'd have fewer.

[Sunta 5]

I went to Temple University, and we had armed security guards at every door. No one could just walk in and out. We also had metal detectors in most buildings. I think it's because it's in a horrible area of Philly. But sometimes I think that all these mass shootings happen mostly not in big cities. It's always rural areas where people seem craziest. It's always the "sleepy small town rocked by violence" scenario. Of course, in cities there's much more crime of a different type, mostly muggings and robbery.

This issue is tough for me, because as a small child I was defended by my mom flashing her gun to a guy who came to our door threatening us and trying to get in. He was a parolee of my father, and decided to come to the house and break in to harm my mom and me when my dad wasn't home. My mom flashed her gun through the door, pointing it at him but while keeping her body away from the door so he could not see her. He ran away mighty darn fast!

So, this is a tough and not clear cut issue for me in terms of no one being allowed to have a gun. But I do agree that it's much too easy for people like Cho to purchase a gun.

But then I think, but what if my mom had had to be in a mental facility (she wasn't) when she was younger for an unrelated reason but then still wanted a gun in the house for protection? And she couldn't buy one because she was in the database? What would have happened to us?

So I guess when one has a personal experience it definitely changes perspective.

I've also seen tv shows where women used their own guns to fend off all kinds of attacks in the home.

So, I don't know, I am really torn on what the best solution would be.

[anonemouse 1]

I am a firm believer in alarm systems. I think that in many of the situations that are cited by gun-rights enthusiasts, the home invaders would have been as easily scared off by an alarm as a gun. I mean, are invaders likely to continue doing something that generally requires stealthiness and silence if a shrieking alarm is likely waking the neighbors up and bringing the cops down on their heads?

And if someone attacks you while you are by yourself, are you going to tell him, "wait while I rummage through my purse to get my gun" or "stop dragging me from my car by my hair long enough for me to get my gun out of the glove compartment, get the safety off, and shoot you"? I would imagine that both those cases hinge on surprise. And if you are surprised, are you really likely to be able to get out your gun in time to defend yourself?

[faithmd 14]

I know stricter gun laws won't prevent gun crimes, far from it. But the proposal for a national database of criminals and people who for whatever reason shouldn't be able to buy guns makes a LOT of sense. Anyone who has been reported for the sorts of things this guy was reported for should show up on a CAUTION list available to gun dealers. He had no criminal history, but clearly people were very concerned about his potential for doing harm. But under VA laws, nothing showed up.

Second-guessing is our favorite pastime, I know. But I can't see why any law-abiding citizen would object to this sort of database being put into place.

No one brought it up yet.

I never said I would object to a database similar to the one you described. But the reasons why someone should be on such a database should be carefully looked at. One cannot say that anyone on anti-depressants can't buy a gun (as some in the media have loosely said), because that would potentially be 60% of the population (I have no idea that stats, I'm pulling that number from my butt, or am basing it on the number of people around me that say they take them). Antidepressants are prescribed very frequently these days. I think that is a good thing. If someone needs them, it is wonderful there is not a stigma around getting them.

It does seem that someone who has a restraining order against them, or who has been reported for violent behavior should be more fully investigated before being given a purchase permit for a handgun. But remember that this will take manpower, and money. There will have to be more people added to the ATF (or whatever agency will be responsible for the investigating). I don't have a problem with that, I think it would be beneficial in many ways.

On another note, the class of antidepressants he was on have been proven to have relationship to violent behavior and also suicidal tendencies. Eric Harris, one of the Columbine shooters, was on these and had escalations in his dosages in the months up to that attack.

I wish we could say definitively that everyone who wrote disturbing materials and plays like this man did was going to be a killer, that way we could know who was going to commit awful crimes before they happen. But you can't go by this or Stephen King and Dean Koontz would be institutionalized for the rest of their lives.

There is no easy answer, I wish there was.

[faithmd 14]

I am a firm believer in alarm systems. I think that in many of the situations that are cited by gun-rights enthusiasts, the home invaders would have been as easily scared off by an alarm as a gun. I mean, are invaders likely to continue doing something that generally requires stealthiness and silence if a shrieking alarm is likely waking the neighbors up and bringing the cops down on their heads?

Not sure what your experience has been, but when's the last time you heard a building alarm of a car alarm going off and seen a bunch of people running over to see what is wrong? The population by and large ignores things like alarms. I will look over if I hear an alarm going off, but if I don't see anything suspicious I dno't go running to see what the story is.

[anonemouse 1]

Not sure what your experience has been, but when's the last time you heard a building alarm of a car alarm going off and seen a bunch of people running over to see what is wrong? The population by and large ignores things like alarms. I will look over if I hear an alarm going off, but if I don't see anything suspicious I dno't go running to see what the story is.

But the loud, unexpected noise will probably scare off a burglar because they generally rely on the occupant being asleep when they enter. And I don't know about you, but I generally check to make sure things are all right if my neighbor's alarm starts going off and isn't shut off immediately. Alarms draw attention, even if it is just people glancing, like you said, to make sure that nothing is suspicious. If a car alarm is going off somewhere around me, I do look to see if something is going on. That, I feel, is why most burglers would run from a building if an alarm starts going off. They do draw attention, and in the case of building alarms, the cops (if they aren't shut off). If you are wanting to do something that takes a little time, like ransacking and robbing a home or raping the occupants, I would imagine that you would have second thoughts about it if a very loud, attention-drawing, cop-magnet alarm was going off.

[anonemouse 1]

Those of us in rural areas don't have the address for that large of a 'cop-magnet'.....perhaps you can post a supplier....my town has about 3 cops per DAY shift....the country has 1 or 2 for a large county....the State troopers aren't assigned that detail here...

Your police officers have radios and cars, do they not?

[green 6]

Lets not have strict gun laws because someone can make a bomb? Now that makes sense!!!

Here we go another issue in the US that the rest of the world shakes their head at in disbelief.

Both TommyO and I live in Canada where not only are the gun laws very, very strict but where gun ownership has never become part of our culture. This is an attitude which is much more in alignment with the attitudes (and laws) prevalent in England and in continental Europe.

While all English speaking Canadians have grown up on American culture - American TV, movies, etc (the Canuck stuff was just so boring and second rate in comparison, eh) - the actual ownership of guns has never, ever formed part of our culture. Our parents didn't have them and none of our friends' parents had 'em either. And you certainly didn't see them for sale in urban stores.

Nope, as far as I can gather, the gun thang remained the exclusive purview of cops, farmers, ranchers, the military, and gun enthusiasts. It is still difficult to get a gun in Canada unless you are a criminal. I have still, at the age of 57, never handled a gun! None of my friends have 'em.

Our criminals get their guns from across the border. A lot of our new and up-coming criminals are juveniles who belong to gangs. These kids are school drop-outs and are are part of the culturally and racially alienated young. They tend to act like morons and it is difficult to maintain a politically sensitive attitude towards a group of individuals who are so seemingly anxious to destroy themselves.

Nevertheless, these kids are professionals in their own way, as are the other chief groups of gun owners inside this country. For sure these kids do shoot each other up and they have certainly inflated the mortality figures for my city, the City of Toronto.

But the mortality rates from gunfire in this country are still extraordinarily low compared to those in America. This is because most of us have never seen a working gun let alone have access to one. And those of us who do carry guns are professionals; they realise that they are tools of the trade or they are busy shooting each other up over gangland territory issues. Of course this is not to say that an innocent is never harmed by a gun. It is to say that guns are not easily available in this country.

This would mean that much of our violence is of a more intimate nature. When Canadians want to kill each other we have to strangle or knife each other. What this means is that, although we do have gun deaths in this country, the overall body count is far, far lower.

From what I have read so far about this tragic business, the young man who performed these dreadful acts was seriously emotionally ill and had been identified as a troubled soul by any number of individuals for a long, long time. He had been noted as such by a number of teachers and by fellow students but all of these individuals were under the same set of restraints, were they not? What could they have done even if they could have found themselves together and in one place and able to trade stories of this individual's weird and disturbing behaviour?

We live under civil laws which seek to protect the individual and his rights - even the eccentric or artistic individual - but these same laws also, and tragically so, serve to protect the rights of those individuals who by their actions are later proved to be unacceptable to us as a society.

It is true that people who come from countries which are less gun-friendly than the U.S. have issues with your country's current approach to gun ownership. We don't git it! Nope, not at all.

Certainly it is true that firearm ownership made sense at the point when America was being colonised and the issue of the right to bear arms made sense within the framework of America's choice to withdraw from the economic oppression of its colonial masters. The statement of the ability to protect the freedom of this newly born country and the right of each individual to bear arms in order to defend this country made sense within the framework of the era.

But let's get real, eh. The 21st century does not belong to cowboys and goofs who keep loaded guns in their night tables. There is no longer any reason why firearms should be freely available to anyone other than farmers, ranchers, cops, military, and gun hobbyists. There is certainly no reason why anyone outside of the police or the military should have access to semi- or fully automatic weapons. This is just fucken dumb and it is criminal.

[anonemouse 1]

so......let's see.....someone may hear an alarm-or maybe they don't---maybe they call 911 for us....or not....maybe there isn't an alarm---or maybe there have been multiple alarms at the same time---or maybe that alarm has been going off so much no one pays attention---or maybe the alarm is broken.....maybe whoever hears the alarm is simply annoyed because of all the alarms going off all the time they just get cranky and don't do anything....

No, maybe the alarm company calls the police in the area, like they are supposed to. And if the police don't respond to a home invasion, then you've got crappy police.