Does it really matter!

[RJ'S/beginning 5,358]

I'm there with you Teachamy -- I'm right around the 210 mark at 36 BMI. I just don't want to hear that "but you're not that big" comment so I'm not telling a lot of people before surgery. It's my decision to stop this weight gain cycle and improve my health before it gets so bad it makes the surgery more risky.

I do have to admit, when I told my 20 yo son I was having the surgery, he did say "You're not as big as you think you are..." and it made me smile. He loves me a lot and thinks I'm too hard on myself. Of course, it doesn't sway my decision because he's my kid and doesn't get a vote, but, it still felt nice that he could express he cares.

When I was 210 I went to WW and was scared to death about my gain...I did not have any other options at the time that I knew about..If I had I would have taken it even then.....Now these procedures are becoming more in the public eye as they see a need to help us in our fight...

Trust me @@Ginger Snaps I would have done it then like you with no guilt......Your one that has caught it before it gets really unhealthy...I admire that in you!

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

I am sorry you feel this way RJ! I honestly hadn't noticed the type of comments you are referring to, but maybe I am just dense as well.

So, back in my early days, I read the old verticlesleevetalk forum, but posted on a different one as I felt this one was a little less gentle and my heart was too tender to take it. I hardly notice any of the negative now - I guess I just ignore it?

[Roo101769 742]

I want to start by saying I did skim through a lot of the responses posted. Obviously this is something that a lot of folks have an opinion about and want to express their views. I have a couple points on the topic to make. First I think that, even for obese folks, that there is a level of fat shaming we all do. It is a way of rationalizing our own weight failures. "Well I'm not as big as.." I also think some people feel as if making statements about how horrible their own weight is, it somehow minimizes their guilt. It is like "ok, there it is. I owned it and put it out in the world as shame so I can now feel better about it". I do remember how mortified I was when I first went over 200lbs. Then there was 250lbs. Each pound was more embarrassing to me in one way, and in another each pound higher was easier to accept. I guess I got complacent at some point and just figured I was destined to be fat. Even as I breached the 300lbs mark it didn't sink in as much. It wasn't until I was faced with serious vascular issues and the real threat of someday losing a leg did I finally stop and really see what I was doing. I never enjoyed being that big, no. But I had somehow learned to live and deal with it. I learned to not allow it to be the center of my thoughts or otherwise I would be totally unable to function with depression. ( conversely it WAS the center of my world and everything in my life did revolve around my weight in one way or another) I have seen posts where people start at weights I am currently at and they thought it was the end of the world . They would write about how fat they were, how unable to function their bodies had become. I do read these and shake my head because my current 230lbs is a blessing, not a curse. I guess it is because these folks never got to 316lbs they do not realize how bad it can get. Sort of a" there for the grace of GOD" type thing. They reached their personal limits at a weight I allowed myself to surpass. That all being said I have no guilt that I was 316lbs when I decided to change. The reason? I decided to change!! If I stayed at 316lbs, or went even higher then I should feel guilt. Not because I reached that weight per se, but because I was doing nothing about it. I don't think anyone is less of a success if they started higher than me, or if they started lower than me. I do, on the other hand, have issues when I read posts from people who are around 180lbs and are thinking about the surgery. ( That one did make me shake my head hard!) I suppose what I am trying to drive home is no one on this board should feel shame or judgment for where they started. Sh*t happens, we all got obese in our own way and own time. The main thing to focus of is the fact we have all progressed past our personal low point, ( or highest weight) and we are working on becoming the best person we can be. I love you RJ for all your insight, wisdom and answers. I hope you never change because inside, where it counts most, you are an awesome individual. Who the heck cares what size package all that awesomeness is wrapped in?

[LipstickLady 25,682]

I guess I truly am confused about what you are saying, RJ. At first, I thought you were upset because peoples' perception of themselves was making you feel bad about yourself, even though you felt it was unintentional. In your later posts, it sounds as if you are upset that people are speaking badly about their past instead of focusing in their present.

EEEEEK! I'm totally confuzzled.

[lisacaron 5,075]

I think I understand what RJ is trying to say....if I'm right because sometimes I feel the same way too.

We are our own worst critic! We think we are too fat too obese at our starting weight. We are embarrassed that we got to be that big, but we were big enough and strong enough to do something about it!

Then we go through all that we have to go through jump through all the hoops find every hidden treasure along the way, and for all of us no matter what WLS it's not an easy journey. We don't go to sleep at surgery and wake up 100+ pounds lighter with no memory of being obese. For many of us our issues are still there even after we lose the weight. We may still be diabetic, we may still need the sleep apnea machine we may still have high blood pressure or we may still see that fat girl in the mirror wearing a size 5 dress.

We stress and we wonder if the weight comes off the way it "should" the way it is "expected" am I losing as much as Mary-Jane, Sally, and Joe or am I better then them or am I worse then them? Did they have an unfair advantage over me because they were fatter when they started...or did I have the unfair advantage because I was fatter....or is it my fault that I can't lose weight so fast because I am so fat that I can't change my habits after all this time because I like them too much?! I'm just a failure at this! All those other posters are doing it they are happy they must know something I don't know...

When what we really should be thinking is, yes I was obese. I was sick, I was tired and I was miserable, and it opened my eyes so I took my life back into my own hands. I made a choice and took another course in my life.

I had this surgery (what ever it is) to make me a heather and ultimately happier person. I might not be able to change all my habits over night but I have made one major one already and tomorrow I'll start practicing to make another and another an every day, and even if I gain an ounce or lose an ounce I will learn from that and I will Celebrate my life and the choices I make in it.

In sharing my story on this forum, I help myself and I help others who maybe see their journey in mine as I see mine in theirs. I learn from you all and you help make me a better person. No matter your surgical procedure, your starting, ending or goal weights, you inspire, motivate and support me.

For that I am ever grateful! Celebrate YOU!!! Every second of every day you are worth it!!!

Edited April 30, 2014 by lisacaron

[Blondiee 278]

It doesn't matter to me and I really don't feel any kind of way when members post their stories/feelings about their journey.

It is not the stories or the facts that get to me.

It is the way it comes out. It makes me feel like because I started that much bigger that I should take the walk of real shame if I was that much bigger then someone else who started at a lower weight.....It is just getting to me...maybe it's because I just got out of hospital again and another complication has slowed me down in my true journey..I don't know..

I feel that everyone has the right to tell their story and say how they feel but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I read these comments. It makes me feel like I am so different from others..And I am not...Others managed to get their WLS earlier before the true big issues began.. They are so lucky and yet they still beat themselves up over the past as if now still had made no difference....

I waited 4 years on a list and got sicker and sicker, waiting and waiting and my weight sky rocketed....I'm here and glad I did it and yet I feel like like if it makes no difference to those who started so much less..They are beating themselves up over the past..Where does that leave the ones that started at a much higher weight.....That's what gets me today!

I tried not to write it but I just feel so bad for us that we can't get past the damn numbers and Celebrate our amazing accomplishments and be dam proud of all of it and the fact that all of us have a second chance at life..All of us equally!

That's all I think...

Totally got that from your initial post. I personally just won't deal with any negativity like @Nicey2u.

Life is too short and you ARE a rockstar @RJ'S/begininng!

[Fluffnomore 1,235]

But, in one sense I think that is the issue of relying too much on the boards. It is between you, your surgical team, and no one else whether the surgery was necessary; whether you are losing at an appropriate rate; eating the appropriate calories; dealing with this entire surgical situation, whether it be pre- or post-op, in the appropriate way. My issues starting in the 238-243 range maybe weren't the same as someone who had more weight to lose. I don't know. But I've certainly run across the attitude here and IRL that my health issues weren't sufficient to merit surgery. That's fine. My insurance company felt otherwise. And even if they hadn't, that would have still been between me and my surgical team. In the end, I do not want to let someone else's behavior influence how I feel about myself or I might be losing my mind about the way I have chosen to approach this and my relative success at this point. But that's just it. My success is not relative; it is entirely a personal call if I have been successful.

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

I reread more of the "discussion" and I think I get better where you are coming from.

One thing i noticed when I was researching skin reduction/ plastics is that people who weren't happy with their selves were still unhappy after plastics. One lady I spoke with told me how she noticed all these OTHER flaws after her plastics and kept wanting to do more and more. It is sort of like never feeling like you are good enough - no matter.

I agree strongly with the basic premise that the more we can love and accept ourselves - regardless of weight, skin, age or what-have-you, the more likely we are to find success and contentment in this journey.

I intensely dislike the tendency that women have to compare themselves to others - I am not talking about on the boards, I mean IRL (in real life). Now that I am normal weight I find myself at times getting a compliment from other women that feels ... negative too. Like, they are comparing themselves to me and I don't like it at all. We each have our own path to follow and I sometimes feel like people make way to big of a deal how much I weigh or what size clothing I wear. I was just as good of a person when I wore a size 10, 14, 18 or 26W....

just yesterday somebody was grilling me on my clothing size - well I can easily wear a size 2 from a vanity sized place like White House Black Market but that doesn't make me a real size 2 - so I don't even like to talk about it it just seems like it is one more way women bludgen themselves with negativity about their bodies.

[RJ'S/beginning 5,358]

I guess I truly am confused about what you are saying, RJ. At first, I thought you were upset because peoples' perception of themselves was making you feel bad about yourself, even though you felt it was unintentional. In your later posts, it sounds as if you are upset that people are speaking badly about their past instead of focusing in their present.

EEEEEK! I'm totally confuzzled.

@@LipstickLady it is all intertwined into our heads. How we feel about ourselves. Our doubts about ourselves. Shame at who we were and so on. There is not just one facet of this situation. Some of us get stuck where we were and then feel so disgusted with ourselves that when posting...I see their hurt and their fear and then wonder if I should have felt that way too. We all read things on here that helped us to learn. Teach us the steps of this journey. But I guess for me I had a moment of self doubt myself. Thinking that I was not disgusted enough with myself...Because I look back on my photo and think there's what you were and here you are now. I am not afraid to show my 380 lb body from the past as it taught me that I really needed help and I asked for it..Should I be ashamed because I was heavier then those who belittle themselves with cruel self destructive comments that are smaller then me at the gate....

I thought about it and no I should not...Do I feel bad for those who continue to be stuck where they were and don't see themselves as reaching out, looking ahead and leaving it in the past..YES I feel bad because I am awe struck by the folks on here that have pushed themselves and are doing it....

I guess I feel bad in both areas...I maybe have to talk a little to myself as well and decide if it was alright that I was 380 lbs. I never thought of it before this week or so. Because of everything I went through. Everything I am going through makes it worth while because I rarely ever think of the 380 lb woman anymore. There, maybe I answered the question already. I am so caught up in the new and improving me. The things I am learning and the forum and those who are coming on here after me, that I for some reason do not look at it that I am horrified at what I was...

I started to feel that maybe I did not see how bad it really was. I started to doubt my own thoughts about how I felt about myself before and on this path.

If you don't understand....That's okay.....I don't understand everything everyone says either.....

[RJ'S/beginning 5,358]

I reread more of the "discussion" and I think I get better where you are coming from.

One thing i noticed when I was researching skin reduction/ plastics is that people who weren't happy with their selves were still unhappy after plastics. One lady I spoke with told me how she noticed all these OTHER flaws after her plastics and kept wanting to do more and more. It is sort of like never feeling like you are good enough - no matter.

I agree strongly with the basic premise that the more we can love and accept ourselves - regardless of weight, skin, age or what-have-you, the more likely we are to find success and contentment in this journey.

I intensely dislike the tendency that women have to compare themselves to others - I am not talking about on the boards, I mean IRL (in real life). Now that I am normal weight I find myself at times getting a compliment from other women that feels ... negative too. Like, they are comparing themselves to me and I don't like it at all. We each have our own path to follow and I sometimes feel like people make way to big of a deal how much I weigh or what size clothing I wear. I was just as good of a person when I wore a size 10, 14, 18 or 26W....

just yesterday somebody was grilling me on my clothing size - well I can easily wear a size 2 from a vanity sized place like White House Black Market but that doesn't make me a real size 2 - so I don't even like to talk about it it just seems like it is one more way women bludgen themselves with negativity about their bodies.

Yes that is exactly part of the topic here......It is sad. It makes me feel bad that we are so unkind to ourselves and we don't except who we have become and let the rest go.. Learning to love yourself then and now no matter where you are in this life changing challenge!

[bearman99 228]

What if we are already perfectly perfect just the way we are?

Can you look in the mirror and say to yourself "self, I love myself!" mean it, and not cry....what emotion do you get when you do that? Can you say to yourself 10x I love myself? Try it morning and night 10x in the mirror for a week - tell me how this goes. If "I love myself" is too much try "I like myself" and see what happens.

Seriously, give it a whirl. Find happiness and knowing you are perfect just as you are.

Except I lost more than you therefore I am better, errr, wait, I mean it seems your online numbers show you have lost more than me, err, well, maybe it means nothing afterall.

Have I confused you yet?

Stay tuned for more messages from my sponsor.

It is sort of like never feeling like you are good enough - no matter.

I agree strongly with the basic premise that the more we can love and accept ourselves - regardless of weight, skin, age or what-have-you, the more likely we are to find success and contentment in this journey..

[RJ'S/beginning 5,358]

Wait! @@bearman99 Is that like in Peter Pan when Peter says " I do believe in fairies, I do believe in Fairies " LOL

You made me laugh! Thanks!

[Madam Reverie 2,958]

Okay, I'm tired, emotional, I love you Rj - but....

Who the f**** cares.

Whether you started at 5 billion pounds, or started at 20lbs overweight.

We've all been on this site long enough to know that the milestones we reach are all BMI related. Those that start higher, lose more. Those that start lower, lose slower (and this is a caveat, without complications). Particularly if you have such nasty afflictions such as thyroid or PCOS issues. (Ad infinitum)

I couldn't give a rats ass about someone's 'pounds lost' -and neither should you. Its all relative. I am concerned, as selfish as it sounds, about me. And I will look for parity in my results with those who started at the same time as I did, with similar metrics.

So some of us were heavier, some of us were lighter. We all have different circumstances which brought us to this point - the point of 'enough is enough' and we took action accordingly. Are you 'lesser' because it potentially 'took you longer' and you started at a higher weight. No, this is a psycho-social issue of which no one has the right to comment, unless they have walked that path. Your path. If it makes you feel bad - it shouldn't. There are many like you. Some, dare I say it, 'worse' if that is the right term to use, than you!

Some of us are executive decision makers and largely (scuse the pun) forward looking. Some of us sit in our darkened corners, ruminating and cogitating about whether taking such extreme action (and whatever way we cut it, the decision to have WLS is extreme), is right for us.

I love ya, RJ - but this is a non question to most - i.e me. It's a question for you. You're the one who is drawing those comparisons with others about metrics. It just smells like personal reflection. And for the record, I have enough of those demons, without having to validate whether my excess 80lbs are more important or valid, or 'enough' to be ashamed of, than anyone else.

Frankly, I couldn't give a rats ass. LL was right when she referred to individuality. It is an individual process.

Dazzled by the numbers? Yes, I suppose i was.

Through experience and a better than average ability to understand basic metabolic rates, height/weight ratio and food addiction versus capacity issues - I know that MY issues are going to be just as hard and just as challenging than anyone elses. But still, I'm trying.

Did I take the decision to do this more quickly than other people? Hell no. It took me 10 years of career progression, working in war-zones, saving a substantial amount of money and more importantly, the TIME to take this out for myself.

But, I did it.

Because I started out as a 'lower weight' than a lot, does it invalidate (just for LL) my 'journey' (cue non 'stuck' vomiting).

It does not.

This is a non argument and one, I don't recognise, nor validate - and unapologetically find a bit tedious. Ultimately, we all laid our arses down and got some borderline Aspergers candidate to remove 85% of our stomachs. Glorified skin/organ seamstresses.

It took as much courage and situational recognition whether we were 50lbs overweight or 200lbs overweight. Either way, we did it and the loss rates, as long as dietry compliance is adhered to, are the same.

I think I've made my point. RJ - this one is all about YOUR perception. Which you are welcome to.

I frankly, couldn't give a rats ass about this issue as it concerns me. I'm walking my path as best I can. As previously stated - I look for similar metrics and empathy of particular circumstance. It is largely 'process' related. I can hope for psycho-social parity. But it is unusual. My life and my decisions are unique to me. As they are to you.

My experiences are not 'pan-bariatric pal' related and given your heartbreaking troubles with regards to your recovery, they are most certainly unique to you.

Stop listening (read 'reading') the noise. It's only a website and it's f******ing with your head.

Right... Love and light and most importantly;

Peace out

<walks off to take a valium as her day has been quite enough already. No hard feelings. I'm just out of patience today>

[bearman99 228]

Let's talk about your fixation on rat's asses.

I love you!?

[Madam Reverie 2,958]

Let's talk about your fixation on rat's asses.

I love you!?

Love you, too, baby-boy x